What is the right way to interpret Litany of Humility?

[Della]

I have other example. My sister,who I consider more humble or at least loving/following Jesus more than myself once had a certain high level job where she was offered a promotion.
She declined because there was another girl being considered for it too & this other girl had been there much longer and was also friends/social with the boss.
Although my sister knew she was the better of the two for the job (she had stronger work ethic etc) she knew the other girl would be mad/upset as she had been there longer.
She also felt that as a Christian she should “esteem the other girl before herself” so she said no to the promotion.
I told her if she objectively thought she was better for the job she should accept.
She didn’t listen to me though due to the above reasons.
Anyway,when the other girl got asked next,that girl accepted without a moments hesitation & she generally had a bit of a “me me” attitude.
My sister felt hurt and I think it was a hard lesson learnt for my sister,as I think she internally secretly though that if you do something selfless for another person that they would return the act/act selfless too but life doesn’t work that way

Was the only think she did wrong was expecting someone else to do the same as her?
Should she have accepted the job or would this have been not humble?

Part of being truly humble is after we’ve made such decisions we live with the results whether we like them or not. If your sister expected the other gal to be grateful, then she had a side motive other than humility–even if she was not aware of it. We think we know ourselves, but really we don’t–not until something like this happens. If we feel used, then we haven’t obtained true humility. And that’s not gained merely by wanting it, it’s a grace from God, which is why we pray for it. It has to be bestowed by God on a willing recipient. And it’s a daily prayer for most of us who haven’t obtained to the virtues so that they are second nature to us. The great saints got to that point, but only after struggling with themselves, sometimes for years. So, it’s a journey of grace. If we don’t have humility and want it, we need to constantly ask for it, and be willing to receive it. True humility, like true love, doesn’t resent it when others don’t react as we’d like them to. And it can’t be forced. It has to be accepted and then lived, although training ourselves in humility can help us be open to the real thing.

 

[animalis]

The litany lacks liturgical vigor in itself, but yet do not see it as apart from Sacred Tradition. I mention the liturgy because this is primary in the conformity of the Prayer of Jesus to the Father, e.g. “not my will but yours be done”.

We fall into abstractions when we gravitate in our self-possessed egos away from the center of Christ, i.e. the Liturgy in communion with the Pope.

I would say if the Litany presents a scandal to the conscience go to the Liturgy (the many sorts of utterances read from the hours or the missal) in its different forms all of which that are in communion with the Pope and thus the Litany will eventually appear less scandalous.

 

[animalis]

“Only love ye truth and peace” (Zach. 8:19)

 

[Della]

The litany lacks liturgical vigor in itself, but yet do not see it as apart from Sacred Tradition. I mention the liturgy because this is primary in the conformity of the Prayer of Jesus to the Father, e.g. “not my will but yours be done”.

We fall into abstractions when we gravitate in our self-possessed egos away from the center of Christ, i.e. the Liturgy in communion with the Pope.

I would say if the Litany presents a scandal to the conscience go to the Liturgy (the many sorts of utterances read from the hours or the missal) in its different forms all of which that are in communion with the Pope and thus the Litany will eventually appear less scandalous.

Yes, the Litany, like all private devotions, needs to be seen within the context of the whole of Sacred Tradition. And like any other private devotion, it’s not necessarily for everyone.

Each of us is at different stages in our faith journeys. And some are simply not able to take in or grasp some of the deeper aspects of personal spirituality available within the Church. And that’s okay. As you cited, the Liturgy of the Mass and the Divine Office , as well as Scripture, are the core, the anchor for all other spiritualities and devotions.

 

[BobCatholic]

God wants all of us–ungrudgingly given to him.

Right. That’s the catch. God does not give gifts without conditions.

Jesus said we are to consider the cost of serving him.

There is a cost because God says we are to sacrifice. Christ’s sacrifice is not enough for salvation, we got to sacrifice too. More proof God does not give gifts without conditions.

 

[Della]

Right. That’s the catch. God does not give gifts without conditions.

There is a cost because God says we are to sacrifice. Christ’s sacrifice is not enough for salvation, we got to sacrifice too. More proof God does not give gifts without conditions.

What we need to weigh one against another is: Are the conditions God asks too much for what he promises? The saints would say no.

We are not promised a smooth ride in this life in return for serving God. Indeed, just the opposite. We will be hated, reviled, lose out to others less qualified, be laughed at and thought fools. It’s not bed of roses being a follower of Christ, if looked at from the angle of temporal happiness.

What we receive, though, is “joy unsurpassable and full of glory” to quote the KJV I grew up with–an inner joy no one can take from us no matter our circumstances in life. But it does require losing our lives for his sake. But in order to have everything worth having one has to give everything one has. That’s just how it works.

 

[BobCatholic]

We are not promised a smooth ride in this life in return for serving God. Indeed, just the opposite. We will be hated, reviled, lose out to others less qualified, be laughed at and thought fools. It’s not bed of roses being a follower of Christ, if looked at from the angle of temporal happiness.

Correct.

To get God, one has to go through horrific suffering, pain and sacrifice.

To lose God, just exist.

God makes it too hard to get to be with him.

Salvation is a gift with conditions, and God never gives a gift unconditionally. But he wants us to give unconditionally.

What we receive, though, is “joy unsurpassable and full of glory” to quote the KJV I grew up with–an inner joy no one can take from us no matter our circumstances in life. But it does require losing our lives for his sake. But in order to have everything worth having one has to give everything one has. That’s just how it works.

Correct.

Christ’s sacrifice is not enough, we have to sacrifice too.

 

[Della]

Correct.

To get God, one has to go through horrific suffering, pain and sacrifice.

As did Jesus to redeem us, remember.

To lose God, just exist.

No, we never just exist. We either exist in God’s joy or we exist in our fallen state, unable to appreciate the great gifts God has given us.

God makes it too hard to get to be with him.

By asking us to completely trust that what he has for us is just what we need, emotionally, spiritually, and even physically? Jesus said that his burden is easy and his yoke light–but only for those who aren’t holding anything back from him.

Salvation is a gift with conditions, and God never gives a gift unconditionally. But he wants us to give unconditionally.

The only condition he requires is faith, hope, and love. Is that so hard?

Christ’s sacrifice is not enough, we have to sacrifice too.

It is sufficient for our redemption, but we need to add our sacrifices to his in order to save not only ourselves, but the whole world. We are helping him renew and rebuild the fallen human race. Since we are the sinners, whom God redeemed in spite of our sins and our lack of love and understanding, we owe God everything he may ask of us, and more.

 

[BobCatholic]

As did Jesus to redeem us, remember.

Yes He did. And I thought that was enough, but nope, it is not enough. Christ’s sacrifice is not enough, we have to sacrifice too.

No, we never just exist. We either exist in God’s joy or we exist in our fallen state, unable to appreciate the great gifts God has given us.

My point is that it is easy to lose God. About 1000000x easier to lose God than keep him. God makes it so hard to get to him and keep him.

By asking us to completely trust that what he has for us is just what we need, emotionally, spiritually, and even physically? Jesus said that his burden is easy and his yoke light–but only for those who aren’t holding anything back from him.

Except God holds back too. He won’t talk to me. He won’t help. He makes it excessively hard to get to him. He won’t take away concupiscence. He won’t heal.

The only condition he requires is faith, hope, and love. Is that so hard?

Faith is a gift from God. If God won’t give it, or gives insufficient, then how can someone have faith? Without the faith, love and hope are gone.

It is sufficient for our redemption, but we need to add our sacrifices to his in order to save not only ourselves, but the whole world.

If I can’t save myself, I certainly can’t save the world. When the airplane is going down, one must grab the oxygen mask for themselves first before they can put oxygen masks on others.

If I somehow manage to get into Purgatory, it will be a miracle.

 

[animalis]

I discovered this, and I taught it was would pertain to this moment:

Maxims of S. Philip Neri, for April 15:

“One of the very best means of obtaining humility, is sincere and frequent confession.”

 

[Elena321]

Part of being truly humble is after we’ve made such decisions we live with the results whether we like them or not. If your sister expected the other gal to be grateful, then she had a side motive other than humility–even if she was not aware of it. We think we know ourselves, but really we don’t–not until something like this happens. If we feel used, then we haven’t obtained true humility. And that’s not gained merely by wanting it, it’s a grace from God, which is why we pray for it. It has to be bestowed by God on a willing recipient. And it’s a daily prayer for most of us who haven’t obtained to the virtues so that they are second nature to us. The great saints got to that point, but only after struggling with themselves, sometimes for years. So, it’s a journey of grace. If we don’t have humility and want it, we need to constantly ask for it, and be willing to receive it. True humility, like true love, doesn’t resent it when others don’t react as we’d like them to. And it can’t be forced. It has to be accepted and then lived, although training ourselves in humility can help us be open to the real thing.

She didn’t expect her to be greatful but I think she might have internally had a tiny thought/wish that the other girl would do the same (refuse the promotion) because she wanted to put “the other”(my sis) first too.

If she had of accepted the job as I suggested her to do ,would she have been un humble?
In my view,as she was objectively better/better work ethic and offered it first, I thought she should have accepted but I think she viewer this as conflict with Christian belief.

 

[Elena321]

Is this example humility?There was some years ago an Australia swimmer who sacrificed his spot at Olympics and let another swimmer (who was better but had been disqualified due to false start) have his spot.
Article:

ekathimerini.com/22483/article/ekathimerini/sports/australias-craig-stevens-steps-aside-for-ian-thorpe-in-400m

 

[Della]

Yes He did. And I thought that was enough, but nope, it is not enough. Christ’s sacrifice is not enough, we have to sacrifice too.

My point is that it is easy to lose God. About 1000000x easier to lose God than keep him. God makes it so hard to get to him and keep him.

Except God holds back too. He won’t talk to me. He won’t help. He makes it excessively hard to get to him. He won’t take away concupiscence. He won’t heal.

Faith is a gift from God. If God won’t give it, or gives insufficient, then how can someone have faith? Without the faith, love and hope are gone.

If I can’t save myself, I certainly can’t save the world. When the airplane is going down, one must grab the oxygen mask for themselves first before they can put oxygen masks on others.

If I somehow manage to get into Purgatory, it will be a miracle.

The only thing you are suffering from is spiritual dryness. God isn’t making hard to “get to him”–you are. You’re expecting God to give you some kind of sign or feeling that you’ve connected with him. But our faith isn’t based on such things. You’ve been baptized, and made vows in confirmation. You belong to him. God to Mass, say your prayers and let go of any desire to have God treat you in any special way. He wants us to trust him whether we feel anything or not “in season and out of season.” He’s not obligated to “reach out” to you when he’s already given you all you need–the sacraments, knowledge, and the faith. Practice the faith and trust in God–that’s all you need. I suggest you pray daily the Liturgy of the Hours, Morning and Evening Prayer and perhaps Night Prayer. That will help ground you and guide you, as well as attending Mass. Mother Teresa had no consolation in prayer for many years, and yet look at all she did. God wants you to trust even if you cannot feel anything at all–that’s truly practicing your faith.

 

[Della]

Is this example humility?There was some years ago an Australia swimmer who sacrificed his spot at Olympics and let another swimmer (who was better but had been disqualified due to false start) have his spot.
Article:

ekathimerini.com/22483/article/ekathimerini/sports/australias-craig-stevens-steps-aside-for-ian-thorpe-in-400m

Not necessarily. Only God can determine if any individual instance was one of humility or not. If someone is impelled by love to put another first then it needs to be without self-interest. You sister may have tried to exercise humility but she expected the other person to do the same. She had an expectation attached to her act of humility. Then she was upset when the other person didn’t do the same. We have to detach ourselves from all self-interest in order to practice true humility, that’s what the Litany is for–to pray for that detachment from self-interest.

 

[BobCatholic]

The only thing you are suffering from is spiritual dryness. God isn’t making hard to “get to him”–you are. You’re expecting God to give you some kind of sign or feeling that you’ve connected with him. He’s not obligated to “reach out” to you when he’s already given you all you need–the sacraments, knowledge, and the faith.

This is why I’ve made the decision to give up, on trying to have a personal relationship with God.

I’ll never have a personal relationship with God, so I’m going to settle for just having a corporate relationship.

I’m in the body of Christ, but not the heart. I’ll just pray for others (since praying for me doesn’t work). I’ll take the sacraments. And that’s all I’ll ever have. I’ll never be able to know God on a personal basis.

I’ll never be able to become a saint, seems that CINO is the best I can aspire for.

“From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

So since I’m not given much (i.e. personal relationship) God won’t demand anything from me. All I can do is just…exist.

 

[Della]

This is why I’ve made the decision to give up, on trying to have a personal relationship with God.

I’ll never have a personal relationship with God, so I’m going to settle for just having a corporate relationship.

I’m in the body of Christ, but not the heart. I’ll just pray for others (since praying for me doesn’t work). I’ll take the sacraments. And that’s all I’ll ever have. I’ll never be able to know God on a personal basis.

I’ll never be able to become a saint, seems that CINO is the best I can aspire for.

“From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

So since I’m not given much (i.e. personal relationship) God won’t demand anything from me. All I can do is just…exist.

You have a “personal relationship” with God–it’s just not based on your emotions. I don’t “feel” anything for long periods of time, but I still know that God and I have a relationship that goes beyond mere feelings. Instead of seeking for some feeling, take joy in creation, love your family, be kind to others, do acts of charity–that’s how we reconnect to God, not just in the liturgy, although that’s supreme.

I usually don’t “feel” anything when I receive the Eucharist, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t receive the graces of the sacrament. Stop trying to get something out of your relationship–the harder you try to make something happen the more you expect something to happen and when it doesn’t you’ve only set yourself up for disappointment. Don’t do it. Stop looking for consolations. If God wants you to have them they will come without you seeking them or even noticing them, per se. You’re only hurting yourself trying to get God to give you what you are not disposed to receive because you are trying to make happen what cannot be made to happen.

 

[BobCatholic]

You have a “personal relationship” with God–it’s just not based on your emotions.

A personal relationship where one party is silent is not a personal relationship.

If my wife stopped talking to me and never talked to me again, how can I have a personal relationship with her? We’d become roomates instead of a married couple.

take joy in creation,

Not allowed. We are not to be attached to creation.

Don’t do it. Stop looking for consolations.

That’s what I’m doing now. I’m giving up looking for them.
The cross is the only thing in life that is guaranteed.

You’re only hurting yourself trying to get God to give you what you are not disposed to receive because you are trying to make happen what cannot be made to happen.

I’m not disposed because I’m created imperfect. God refuses to fix this buggy software. As a result, I crash, like buggy software is prone to do.

But, it is all my fault anyway. It is a standard that I think is horrible. God writes the program, it crashes and the program is to blame.

 

[LiamQ]

Not allowed. We are not to be attached to creation.

What makes you think that enjoying the beauty of creation is somehow the same as being attached to it?

Excuse me, but enjoying the good things in life gives God glory, since He’s the one who made those good things.

It’s a question of what ends you have in mind.

 

[LiamQ]

God writes the program, it crashes and the program is to blame.

I think the main problem here is not the programing, it’s the fact that you’re refusing to let go of injustices.

Bitter and angry people are those who are a sort of injustice collector: they go around finding things that are unfair so that they can have some sort of authority over others and hold things over their heads. Well, that’s not what we’re called to do. That’s not how the programming works. Forgiveness is letting go of a debt someone owes you in justice, and permitting God to be their judge, knowing that He will be far more fair than you or I could ever be, and that the General Judgment will put all things right. If we refuse to function like that, and we consistently find ourselves breaking down as a result, it’s hardly fair to blame the programming. The program isn’t even being followed.

 

[BobCatholic]

I think the main problem here is not the programing, it’s the fact that you’re refusing to let go of injustices.

What injustice?

I’m an imperfect human being, seeing things imperfectly.

I’m not holding any grudges, or anything against any of my fellow human beings. I forgive quickly. I don’t want God telling me I didn’t forgive so-and-so and throwing me in hell for that.

What makes you think that enjoying the beauty of creation is somehow the same as being attached to it?

Excuse me, but enjoying the good things in life gives God glory, since He’s the one who made those good things.

It’s a question of what ends you have in mind.

God does not want us to enjoy creation. We are supposed to suffer. The cross is what life is all about.

Because I don’t want to suffer, I am a bad person in God’s eyes. I’m not a hedonist, but I hate suffering.

Why did Christ ask the rich young ruler to give up all his wealth before he’d let him follow him? Because wealth is evil? No. We’re not supposed to be attached to creation.