What is the Scriptural Basis for Islam's Belief in Jesus as the Messiah?

[sedonaman]

In other words, why does Islam believe that Jesus is the Messiah? …

Don’t know if this point has already been made, but here goes anyway.

You will first have to get Muslims to define their concept of “Messiah”. There have been many discussions with them on this forum, and if we’ve learned anything it is that they may be using the same vocabulary that non-Muslims do, but their meanings are, in general, not the same.

Since Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet and the “Messiah,” but not the Son of God, “Messiah” must have a different meaning to them since there are other Biblical “prophets” that they do acknowledge as “prophets” but not as the “Messiah”. I have asked them many times but never got an answer.

While you are at it, you should probably inquire as well what they mean by “prophet”.

 

[Ginger2]

according to bible and quran , Ismail was the first born for abraham …

What you are forgetting is the promised heir was to be born from Abraham and Sarah, not just Abraham.

That is why Isaac is the true heir and not Ishmael.

Genesis 18:10-?

 

[elwill]

Thank you for this detailed information, elwill. I have a further question. I believe the Jews are foretold in the Qur’an to worship the false anti-Christ. This is somewhat similar to the fact that many Jews did not recognize who Christians consider the true Messiah (Jesus) and the prediction by the Gospel that the Jews would follow another (false) Messiah instead.

no , quran didn’t fortold that jews will worship the antichrist
all we have (i think) is that hadeeth which says that followers of antichrist will be from jews.
but muslims interpret or imagine the events based on this hadeeth that
Since the Jews fail to accept Jesus (peace be upon him) as the true Messiah, which both Christians and Muslims know to be the truth, the Antichrist will arise as their “Messiah” (exactly as you understood ).

according to Islam teaching, what will happen to the Jews when Jesus the Messiah returns? Will they all convert to Islam as the Christians do, or will they be destroyed? Also, what about those Jews and Christians who choose not to convert: will they be killed

According to the Hadith . it is clear that the Antichrist will enter Syria followed by 70,000 armed Zionists to position himself in Damascus. One morning, Jesus (pbuh) will descend in the eastern part of Damascus near a white minaret to begin the holy campaign against the false messiah. The Antichrist will flee towards Israel through the Afiq Pass, but Jesus (pbuh) will overtake him and destroy him at the airfield in Lod just 13 miles south east of Tel-Aviv. The Israelites will be destroyed putting an end to their treacherous community; whereas with the destruction of the Cross, all the religious communities will merge into the single community of Islam

so according to hadeeth , all relegious communitues will merge into islam , no mention here if it will be by force , but i think that the world will recognize jesus (pbuh) in that time ( whether jews or christians lives in that time )

 

[elwill]

What you are forgetting is the promised heir was to be born from Abraham and Sarah, not just Abraham.

That is why Isaac is the true heir and not Ishmael.

Genesis 18:10-?

off course i can’t forgot these passages , the same story exist in quran
we need to find a common ground , i believe that abraham had a son from sarah after he had his son ishamail from Hagar

the verses of Genesis said
18since Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and in him all the nations of the earth will be blessed? 19“For I have chosen him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring upon Abraham what He has spoken about him.”

the promise here mentioned the nation of abraham , not the nation of abraham from his son Ishaq only

and don’t forget these verses either
“And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)”

 

[elwill]

What you are forgetting is the promised heir was to be born from Abraham and Sarah, not just Abraham.

That is why Isaac is the true heir and not Ishmael.

Genesis 18:10-?

what do you mean by " true heir" ?

 

[elwill]

Don’t know if this point has already been made, but here goes anyway.

You will first have to get Muslims to define their concept of “Messiah”. There have been many discussions with them on this forum, and if we’ve learned anything it is that they may be using the same vocabulary that non-Muslims do, but their meanings are, in general, not the same.

Since Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet and the “Messiah,” but not the Son of God, “Messiah” must have a different meaning to them since there are other Biblical “prophets” that they do acknowledge as “prophets” but not as the “Messiah”. I have asked them many times but never got an answer.

While you are at it, you should probably inquire as well what they mean by “prophet”.

to give a clear answer for that i should to be clear that we believe that jesus is the massiah because he was the only prophet who mentioned in quran with this title

i think that OT fortold about the massaih , it’s not my issue now what is his qualfications or characteristics , but i believe that jews waited him . and quran assured in it’s words for them that jesus was that massiah they were waiting

When John the Baptist came, they asked him if he was Christ and he said “no”. They asked him if he was Elias and he said “no”. Then, in apparent reference to Deuteronomy 18:18, they asked him “Art thou that Prophet” and he answered, “no”. (John 1: 1 9-2 1).

maasage of quran are sent to jews and christians as well , so it was important i think to declare such hints to them

from another point of view , massiah can be considered arabic word which means rubber , arab muslims suggest that God gave him this title with reference to the miracles he gave to him
btw , massiah in hebrew means the rubber also i think , isn’t this true ?

 

[elwill]

I don’t believe these books should be read as a history book with or without errors, as you mentioned, but rather as a religious text containing both surface and more profound levels of meaning. That’s why the Oral Law (Talmud, containing the Mishnah and Gemara) and the Kabbalah (particularly the Zohar) are applied to the understanding of the Written Law or Torah; that is, as a means of deciphering its deeper and truer meanings. .

my mistake , i believe that it’s relegious books either
i believe that OT contains many of the truth and real words of God either , but not the entire OT
i was talking from islamic prespective because we can’t acccept whetever contradict quran from OT , we will consider it forged or altered or mistransmitted , whatever we can’t either deny it entirly because it still contains much of the truth which are in harmony with islam

To take up one point you and many others have noted with regard to Moses’ writing about his own death, I’ve always interpreted this as a prophetic revelation. After all, Moses is regarded in Judaism as the greatest of the Prophets. Why might he not have foretold his own demise? The Hebrew Prophets and other figures in the Bible had many premonitions

i’m tried to take your view seriously under the test , so i read this his words about his death

And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day.

so you believe that mosas (pbuh) wrote thses words about his future death and said
“no man knows his burial place to this day”

 

[schaick]

Yes. They believe Ishmael, not Isaac, is the “first born” and that the Jews have currupted the Scriptures to claim the promise of God to Abraham for themselves.

I don’t know what you are disagreeing with, but I am certain it is due to my poor wording. lol

So instead of the line of the Messiah coming from Isaac Jacob and Jacob’s twelve sons, they say the linage is Ishmael, Kedar and Kedar’s twleve sons.

No I am not disagreeing with you just saying that I have heard something different from the Muslims I have spoken to - that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation.

I have never had a Muslim say that the Messiah was coming from Ishmael, but I do believe that deep done there is jealousy on the Muslims part about this.

 

[schaick]

elwill -

So say Moses writes the first 5 Books except for the last few paragraphs of one of the Books.

What if it was Joshua that wrote those last few:

9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses.

Who do you say wrote the Books?

Seriously though who wrote the Quran? We have no idea who wrote the original Quran on the rocks, leaves and bones.

We have no idea what writings were thrown out when Uthmann complied the Quran. We know Uthmann burned the copies of the Quran that were different. How do we know he saved and compiled the right verses? There is nothing to check back with.

There is no Holy Spirit in Islam- no one to guide a person to truth. How do you know the Quran is truth especially when there are false ideas in it?

 

[Ginger2]

So instead of the line of the Messiah coming from Isaac Jacob and Jacob’s twelve sons, they say the linage is Ishmael, Kedar and Kedar’s twleve sons.

No I am not disagreeing with you just saying that I have heard something different from the Muslims I have spoken to - that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation.

I have never had a Muslim say that the Messiah was coming from Ishmael, but I do believe that deep done there is jealousy on the Muslims part about this.

I am saying that Muslims believe the Jews stole their birth-right. The promise of God to Abraham was about Ishmael, not Isaac. And when the koran gives the linage of Isaac it is addressing the linage of prophets, which leads to Jesus, Not the birth rights of the first born.

Muslims reject the idea of God having a son. Muhaamad said it is not true and “if God had a son, he is the first”

That is all I am saying as I do not inted to look up my notes, but am speaking from memory and you already have a Sunni Muslim addressing this question from his understanding.

 

[Ginger2]

…btw , massiah in hebrew means the rubber also i think , isn’t this true ?

“Rubber”? as like a tire?

 

[meltzerboy]

to give a clear answer for that i should to be clear that we believe that jesus is the massiah because he was the only prophet who mentioned in quran with this title

i think that OT fortold about the massaih , it’s not my issue now what is his qualfications or characteristics , but i believe that jews waited him . and quran assured in it’s words for them that jesus was that massiah they were waiting

When John the Baptist came, they asked him if he was Christ and he said “no”. They asked him if he was Elias and he said “no”. Then, in apparent reference to Deuteronomy 18:18, they asked him “Art thou that Prophet” and he answered, “no”. (John 1: 1 9-2 1).

maasage of quran are sent to jews and christians as well , so it was important i think to declare such hints to them

from another point of view , massiah can be considered arabic word which means rubber , arab muslims suggest that God gave him this title with reference to the miracles he gave to him
btw , massiah in hebrew means the rubber also i think , isn’t this true ?

Moshiach in Hebrew means “anointed.” It was used to refer to kings anointed by oil, as well as the “anointed by G-d.”

 

[sedonaman]

to give a clear answer for that i should to be clear that we believe that jesus is the massiah because he was the only prophet who mentioned in quran with this title …

But why does the quran give Him that title? That’s the real question.

btw , massiah in hebrew means the rubber also i think , isn’t this true ?

A messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern Mashiaẖ Tiberian Māšîăḥ Arabic language مسيح Masih “anointed”) means just that, “The Anointed One”.

 

[meedo]

“Rubber”? as like a tire?

As in ‘’ To rub’’ … ‘‘to sweep with your hand over someone or something’’.

There is a difference between the literal interpretation and the functional interpretation. The word messiah means the person who rubs, or smears something.

In the context of Judaism , he is the anointed one because kings used to be ‘’ rubbed’’ ‘‘smeared’’ and thus ''anointed ‘’ with oil. But as i said … its meaning literally is not anointed or chosen . It describes what he does… he rubs or smears … just Like John the baptist . John Baptized people. Jesus smeared on people with his hands to heal them.

The above is my interpretation as a muslim and i think many muslims share it with me.

Best regards

 

[Jehuty_X]

off course i can’t forgot these passages , the same story exist in quran
we need to find a common ground , i believe that abraham had a son from sarah after he had his son ishamail from Hagar

the verses of Genesis said
18since Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and in him all the nations of the earth will be blessed? 19“For I have chosen him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring upon Abraham what He has spoken about him.”

the promise here mentioned the nation of abraham , not the nation of abraham from his son Ishaq only

and don’t forget these verses either
“And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)”

// and don’t forget this verse either:
[bibledrb]Genesis_17:21[/bibledrb]

 

[sedonaman]

As in ‘’ To rub’’ … ‘‘to sweep with your hand over someone or something’’.

There is a difference between the literal interpretation and the functional interpretation. The word messiah means the person who rubs, or smears something.

In the context of Judaism , he is the anointed one because kings used to be ‘’ rubbed’’ ‘‘smeared’’ and thus ''anointed ‘’ with oil. But as i said … its meaning literally is not anointed or chosen . It describes what he does… he rubs or smears … just Like John the baptist . John Baptized people. Jesus smeared on people with his hands to heal them.

The above is my interpretation as a muslim and i think many muslims share it with me.

Best regards

This all sounds convincing, but on closer examination it doesn’t make sense because whoever taught you this mixed up the active voice with the passive.

 

[meedo]

This all sounds convincing, but on closer examination it doesn’t make sense because whoever taught you this mixed up the active voice with the passive.

Hi,

Could you please elaborate ?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As in ‘’ To rub’’ … ‘‘to sweep with your hand over someone or something’’.

There is a difference between the literal interpretation and the functional interpretation. The word messiah means the person who rubs, or smears something.

In the context of Judaism , he is the anointed one because kings used to be ‘’ rubbed’’ ‘‘smeared’’ and thus ''anointed ‘’ with oil. But as i said … its meaning literally is not anointed or chosen . It describes what he does… he rubs or smears … just Like John the baptist . John Baptized people. Jesus smeared on people with his hands to heal them.

The above is my interpretation as a muslim and i think many muslims share it with me.

Best regards

Jesus didn’t always touch the people he healed!

" Annoited one" would actually be another name for “King” not a person that smears oil on people to heal them.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

according to bible and quran , Ismail was the first born for abraham
Jews, Christians and Muslims all agree that Ishmael peace be upon him was 13 years older than Isaac peace be upon him.

The conflict between the Jews and Christians, and the Muslims, is much more serious than that .
The Jews and Christians believe that any son or daughter born from a Servant or Slave woman is not considered a biological son or daughter.
Muslims on the other hand, believe that any son or daughter born from any mother is a biological son or daughter. Not only that, but the slave woman instantly becomes free.

according to Genesis 16 , hagar is his wife
3After Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram’s wife Sarai took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as his wife.
and according to Deuteronomy 21:15-17: ismail is the first born for abraham in the sight of God
“If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hash, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hash: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his.”

we believe that the Jews lied and fabricated lies on the mouth of Allah Almighty when they said that He, the Almighty, does not consider Ishmael to be Abraham’s real and biological son.

Only Dispensationalist Christians believe this. As a Catholic, I do NOT believe this.

 

[sedonaman]

Hi,

Could you please elaborate ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_voice

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_voice