What is the Societies' responsibility in dealing with world poverty?

[Robert_Sock]

Government does not possess anything to give to the needy. Everything it has–or ever will have–was stolen under threat of violence. The Christian’s duty is to see that charity is not lacking, but if it is, we do not compound one evil by committing another.

“Go to the government; be warmed and filled,” is not compassion, it is a cowardly cop-out. I’d like to see more Dorothy Day and less Franklin Roosevelt.

Taxation is legitimate, not stealing or robbing.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Nowhere did I mean to convey that individuals do not have a moral obligation to help the poor, and to help one’s family, they do. The same is true for Catholics. My post was merely to point out the purpose of this particular thread being societies duties, which includes individuals and Catholics as a whole.

Although previously you said you weren’t talking about personal obligations. But I agree that individuals do have a moral obligation to help the poor. And this brings up the danger that if government does it for us, we as individuals will become much more lax in our personal obligations. Why? Because government is doing if for us! Government will become our Savior! Not Jesus, not the Church. but Caesar. The result is that society will become more and more secular.

And, the question remains unanswered: why government? What is special about government as opposed to other institutions? What puts government in a unique position to do away with poverty?

 

[mackbrislawn]

That is the Judgement of the Nations. Individuals are members of nations, but it is national policies that are being judged in that passage.

Hmm…so it is governments that are being judged here, not individuals. Caesar and kings are being judged. I see.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Taxation is legitimate, not stealing or robbing.

Taxation may be legal. Some have refused to pay taxes to support wars, because they felt that this taxation was illegitimate. The point is that some people may disagree with the way their tax money is spent, for causes they don’t support. Is this stealing and robbing?

Put it another way–is it murder when the state puts someone to death? It may be legal but is it legitimate?

 

[Reep]

Hmm…so it is governments that are being judged here, not individuals. Caesar and kings are being judged. I see.

Weighed in the balance and found wanting.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Although previously you said you weren’t talking about personal obligations. But I agree that individuals do have a moral obligation to help the poor. And this brings up the danger that if government does it for us, we as individuals will become much more lax in our personal obligations. Why? Because government is doing if for us! Government will become our Savior! Not Jesus, not the Church. but Caesar. The result is that society will become more and more secular.

And, the question remains unanswered: why government? What is special about government as opposed to other institutions? What puts government in a unique position to do away with poverty?

Government is needed to start the initiative needed to end extreme poverty. Extreme poverty is a crime against humanity, and must be eliminated. We cannot turn a blind eye to this disgusting plague any longer. Nations must group together and develop a plan, with the rich nations helping the poor ones. The entire world would benefit if we could get everyone decent-paying jobs that promotes that world’s economy.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Weighed in the balance and found wanting.

Found wanting–for darn sure. So it seems odd to look for solutions to poverty in governments that are found wanting.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Government is needed to start the initiative needed to end extreme poverty. Extreme poverty is a crime against humanity, and must be eliminated. We cannot turn a blind eye to this disgusting plague any longer. Nations must group together and develop a plan, with the rich nations helping the poor ones. The entire world would benefit if we could get everyone decent-paying jobs that promotes that world’s economy.

One would think that the initiative should come from the Church, as the Church is the example, the light on the hill, for the entire world.

We’ve been talking in generalities up to now, so in what way is government uniquely qualified? Do you have specific ideas? This all sounds nice, but what definite plan do you think would be developed?

A blind eye has hardly been turned to this plague, as countless speeches given, articles written, programs and “wars” implemented. Many minds have pondered the matter for years.

Promoting the world’s economy is a good idea. Of course decent-paying jobs depend upon the productivity of the worker, that is, how much wealth is generated by his job.
So, all right, let’s get down to brass tacks and figure out how it can be done.

 

[mackbrislawn]

That is the Judgement of the Nations. Individuals are members of nations, but it is national policies that are being judged in that passage.

By the way, what are the passages that describe the judgment of individuals?

 

[Robert_Sock]

One would think that the initiative should come from the Church, as the Church is the example, the light on the hill, for the entire world.

We’ve been talking in generalities up to now, so in what way is government uniquely qualified? Do you have specific ideas? This all sounds nice, but what definite plan do you think would be developed?

A blind eye has hardly been turned to this plague, as countless speeches given, articles written, programs and “wars” implemented. Many minds have pondered the matter for years.

Promoting the world’s economy is a good idea. Of course decent-paying jobs depend upon the productivity of the worker, that is, how much wealth is generated by his job.
So, all right, let’s get down to brass tacks and figure out how it can be done.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11110092&postcount=1

 

[Reep]

Found wanting–for darn sure. So it seems odd to look for solutions to poverty in governments that are found wanting.

Yeah. And what they can be found wanting*–24 hours a day–*is the fruits of the worker’s labor.

 

[jmcrae]

Hmm…so it is governments that are being judged here, not individuals. Caesar and kings are being judged. I see.

… And voters, and taxpayers.

But this isn’t a “me and Jesus” Judgement Day. I don’t really find very much in Scripture where we are judged separately from the institutions that we support.

Jesus speaks of the judgement of Sodom and not about the judgement of each individual citizen separately. All share the same fate together. Same with Israel - all Israel was judged together in the Old Testament. The neighbours of the widow of Zarephath experienced the same famine as Jezebel and Ahab, even though they were probably less culpable for the sins of Jezebel. But they still died for her sins, as if they had committed them themselves.

 

[mackbrislawn]

… And voters, and taxpayers.

But this isn’t a “me and Jesus” Judgement Day. I don’t really find very much in Scripture where we are judged separately from the institutions that we support.

Jesus speaks of the judgement of Sodom and not about the judgement of each individual citizen separately. All share the same fate together. Same with Israel - all Israel was judged together in the Old Testament. The neighbours of the widow of Zarephath experienced the same famine as Jezebel and Ahab, even though they were probably less culpable for the sins of Jezebel. But they still died for her sins, as if they had committed them themselves.

Interesting–since all societies have failed, all, including its individuals, will go to hell.

 

[jmcrae]

Interesting–since all societies have failed, all, including its individuals, will go to hell.

That’s an excellent observation.

Now you understand why we need to be citizens of the Kingdom of God - one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[mackbrislawn]

That’s an excellent observation.

Now you understand why we need to be citizens of the Kingdom of God - one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Good point. That is the institution or kingdom we need to depend upon for our salvation.