What is the SSPX

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I’ve been seeing a lot of posts lately about the SSPX. What is the SSPX, are they Catholic? If not what religion are they? I’m just wondering what it is because of simple human curiosity.
SSPX is the society of pope Pius X. They broke away from the Catholic church after the second vatican councel and are not in line with the pope. They believe that the last pope was Pope Pius X. They are basicly an ultra traditional group that failed to see the good in
V2.
 
Right, they should fall to their knees and accept this…
thechurchofjesuschrist.us/tag/western-mass/
Please do not propose a false dichotomy of choosing between the SSPX and their disobedient and border-line schismatic attitudes and… that. I serve at a diocesan EF and I am loyal to my bishop and I am respectful to the bishop in who’s diocese I serve in (who has went so far as to try and stop his priests from celebrating the EF). When I attend a NO (I am trying to attend Mass daily) I attend an NO that is as reverent as I can find (I still dislike the liturgy though… there is simply no mystery, no sense of… well… being at the foot of the Cross… there’s no harmony in it).
 
SSPX is the society of pope Pius X. They broke away from the Catholic church after the second vatican councel and are not in line with the pope. They believe that the last pope was Pope Pius X. They are basicly an ultra traditional group that failed to see the good in
V2.
Another misinformed post. This is Bishop Fellay of the SSPX with BXVI

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Please do not propose a false dichotomy of choosing between the SSPX and their disobedient and border-line schismatic attitudes and… that. I serve at a diocesan EF and I am loyal to my bishop and I am respectful to the bishop in who’s diocese I serve in (who has went so far as to try and stop his priests from celebrating the EF). When I attend a NO (I am trying to attend Mass daily) I attend an NO that is as reverent as I can find (I still dislike the liturgy though… there is simply no mystery, no sense of… well… being at the foot of the Cross… there’s no harmony in it).
So what do you think of …that ?

Prefer to sweep it under a rug ? Disobedience worse than Sacrilege ? Allowing those who just ate food and drank alcohol in front of you during Mass to receive Communion ?

And you want to attack those who want no part of that ?

🍿
 
SSPX is the society of pope Pius X. They broke away from the Catholic church after the second vatican councel and are not in line with the pope. They believe that the last pope was Pope Pius X. They are basicly an ultra traditional group that failed to see the good in
V2.
Please refrain from posting falsehoods.
 
I know a fair number of SSPX people, and it’s interesting to discuss the Church with them. They absolutely are not sedevacantist, and, at least in our discussions, there is no disagreement in doctrine between their beliefs and mine; at least that I have heard. It’s more “around the edges”. Their approach to ecumenism, basically, is that they want no part of it, for instance.

Their orders are valid, and there’s no way around that. LeFevre might have been a crank, but he was a real bishop. Therefore, their sacraments are also valid since their priests are really priests and they are most punctilious about following the prescribed form of the sacraments (more so than some NO priests are).

They do object to the use of the vernacular at Mass, and that seems to be pervasive. But I have never heard one say that N.O. Masses are frankly invalid, though they do think some of the highly innovative Masses likely are. They do not hold themselves subject to the local bishops, but then, the local bishops don’t have anything to do with them, either. One does need to remember that the Tridentine Mass virtually disappeared in the U.S. and Europe after Vatican II; correction of which has had a start. Had it been more acceptable back in LeFevre’s time, they might not even exist now. Let’s be honest about it. VII did not forbid the Tridentine Mass. In fact, it encouraged its preservation. But a lot of bishops defied that and wouldn’t allow it, no matter what. My own former bishop was that way. He said he would never allow it within this diocese and for 25 years, he kept his word on that. He retired, and our new bishop actively promotes it.

And now, the Church is ready to accept an “Anglican Rite” different from the N.O. It has always accepted Byzantine and other rites; which also have their own bishops who are not subject to the Latin bishops or diocesan structures.

The SSPX are just out on a limb, you might say. They are not quite schismatic, but not quite unified with the Church either. They’re certainly much closer to being in union with Rome than are the Eastern Orthodox or the Oriental Orthodox, whose orders and sacraments we also consider valid.

One thing possibly worth mentioning. There are not a whole lot of them, but they do have a strong “community sense”. There are some places where they are so numerous as to perhaps be in the majority, locally. I understand, for example, that in and around St. Mary’s Kansas there are thousands of them. They have their own (excellent) Catholic grade schools and high schools and even a Catholic college there. Virtually all of their children attend those schools. They do have a lot of children per family and a lot of vocations. Kind of hard to be too harsh about them.

Personally, I am a bit queasy about the SSPX, but I don’t think its existence is a disaster, at least not yet. And it could end up being “regularized” in some manner, particularly since it seems so many of the newer bishops in the Church in the U.S. seem more faithful to the magesterium and less oddly “innovative” than was formerly the case. After all, if you were a priest ordained by an SSPX bishop, would you have welcomed the thought of being subjected to the former Cdl Mahoney? But that all might change, and if it does, I personally think they will be a positive addition to the “regular” Church in the U.S.
 
I know a fair number of SSPX people, and it’s interesting to discuss the Church with them. They absolutely are not sedevacantist, and, at least in our discussions, there is no disagreement in doctrine between their beliefs and mine; at least that I have heard. It’s more “around the edges”. Their approach to ecumenism, basically, is that they want no part of it, for instance.

Their orders are valid, and there’s no way around that. LeFevre might have been a crank, but he was a real bishop. Therefore, their sacraments are also valid since their priests are really priests and they are most punctilious about following the prescribed form of the sacraments (more so than some NO priests are).

They do object to the use of the vernacular at Mass, and that seems to be pervasive. But I have never heard one say that N.O. Masses are frankly invalid, though they do think some of the highly innovative Masses likely are. They do not hold themselves subject to the local bishops, but then, the local bishops don’t have anything to do with them, either. One does need to remember that the Tridentine Mass virtually disappeared in the U.S. and Europe after Vatican II; correction of which has had a start. Had it been more acceptable back in LeFevre’s time, they might not even exist now. Let’s be honest about it. VII did not forbid the Tridentine Mass. In fact, it encouraged its preservation. But a lot of bishops defied that and wouldn’t allow it, no matter what. My own former bishop was that way. He said he would never allow it within this diocese and for 25 years, he kept his word on that. He retired, and our new bishop actively promotes it.

And now, the Church is ready to accept an “Anglican Rite” different from the N.O. It has always accepted Byzantine and other rites; which also have their own bishops who are not subject to the Latin bishops or diocesan structures.

The SSPX are just out on a limb, you might say. They are not quite schismatic, but not quite unified with the Church either. They’re certainly much closer to being in union with Rome than are the Eastern Orthodox or the Oriental Orthodox, whose orders and sacraments we also consider valid.

One thing possibly worth mentioning. There are not a whole lot of them, but they do have a strong “community sense”. There are some places where they are so numerous as to perhaps be in the majority, locally. I understand, for example, that in and around St. Mary’s Kansas there are thousands of them. They have their own (excellent) Catholic grade schools and high schools and even a Catholic college there. Virtually all of their children attend those schools. They do have a lot of children per family and a lot of vocations. Kind of hard to be too harsh about them.

Personally, I am a bit queasy about the SSPX, but I don’t think its existence is a disaster, at least not yet. And it could end up being “regularized” in some manner, particularly since it seems so many of the newer bishops in the Church in the U.S. seem more faithful to the magesterium and less oddly “innovative” than was formerly the case. After all, if you were a priest ordained by an SSPX bishop, would you have welcomed the thought of being subjected to the former Cdl Mahoney? But that all might change, and if it does, I personally think they will be a positive addition to the “regular” Church in the U.S.
A fair assessment.
 
SSPX is the society of pope Pius X.
I think this is the only true statement in this post. SSPX = Society of St. Pius X
They broke away from the Catholic church after the second vatican councel and are not in line with the pope.
The SSPX is in an irregular legal situation, that is not the same as breaking away from the Catholic Church. Members of the SSPX and those who attend their Masses are part of the Catholic Church, it’s the organization itself that is not recognized by Rome, not those in it.
They believe that the last pope was Pope Pius X.
False. The SSPX is named after Pope St. Pius X because he was a very good pope and upheld Catholic teaching vigorously, not because they think he was the last real pope. The SSPX recognizes Pope Benedict XVI as the pope.
They are basicly an ultra traditional group that failed to see the good in V2.
The “ultra” label is like “fundamentalist”, it’s used disparagingly by secular newspapers and those who are dismissive of traditional Catholics.

I don’t know what you mean by the SSPX failing “to see in the good in V2”. The SSPX fails to see how some of the teachings expressed in the Second Vatican Council are compatible with prior Church teaching, especially with regards to the Social Kingship of Christ, ecumenism and religious liberty (the idea that there should be no Catholic states, only secular ones) because these discontinuities have never been explained by the Vatican. The SSPX also criticizes the New Mass and uses the traditional Mass (the one in place from 33-1970).
 
So what do you think of …that ?
I think it’s absolutely disgusting.
Prefer to sweep it under a rug?
No. Any priest (including bishop) who would go along with something like that should be be sent on an all-expenses paid holiday to visit with the Wyoming Carmelite Monks.

They shouldn’t be let out until they’ve been properly educated.
Disobedience worse than Sacrilege?
Disobediently celebrating the Sacraments is as sacrilegious as what you posted.
Allowing those who just ate food and drank alcohol in front of you during Mass to receive Communion?
This is one thing I hate about SSPXers. In the past I’ve stated that in all reality the SSPX has set its self up as the Church. Lets face it… to an SSPXer, if you don’t attend an SSPX Mass you are not Catholic.

Don’t give me denials. I’m talking about what things are like in reality. It doesn’t matter what they say but how they act and how their congregations act.

I serve at the Extraordinary Form and I won’t go near an irreverent Ordinary Form (which is quite hard to find seeing as that entire liturgy, however it is celebrated, is simply not comparable to the EF).

I in no way justify the actions of those you posted. But that doesn’t mean I automatically have to jump in bed with the SSPX.
And you want to attack those who want no part of that?
You are falsely portraying a picture that every OF Mass is like that. That’s simply rubbish. That that is a true representation of the Church as She stands today. Again, rubbish.
 
…This is one thing I hate about SSPXers. In the past I’ve stated that in all reality the SSPX has set its self up as the Church. Lets face it… to an SSPXer, if you don’t attend an SSPX Mass you are not Catholic…

…you are falsely portraying a picture that every OF Mass is like that. That’s simply rubbish. That that is a true representation of the Church as She stands today. Again, rubbish…
No, not trying to say all NO Masses are like that. Just pointing out they happen, and have been happening for years.

And your comment on how SSPX folks judge others is your own opinion and imagination.

That is the whole issue here. It’s not a 2 wrongs make a right thing at all. It’s “let’s slam the SSPX and not discuss anything wrongdoings within the Church”

That is the prevailing attitude here. The SSPX clergy are suspended currently and pray Mass and administer Sacraments anyway. That is a fact. And that is all the SSPX haters have. You even admitted hating a bit in your post above.

But when a bishop in full communion undermines the wishes of the pope, you folks don’t want to speak of it. Because that would reveal disobedience within the Church. That would put the light on the hypocrisy of certain bishops. They denounce the SSPX for disobedience and are disobedient themselves.
 
No, not trying to say all NO Masses are like that. Just pointing out they happen, and have been happening for years.
And they shouldn’t happen. What’s your point?
And your comment on how SSPX folks judge others is your own opinion and imagination.
It’s a simply the way things are. The practical reality of the matter is that the SSPX has set its self up as the Church. It is not uncommon for SSPX priests to tell “their congregations” to stay away from the Ordinary Form and “Novus Ordo” priests because we all know only the SSPX is the Church :rolleyes:

Theoretically the SSPX will tell you about how they’re in communion with the Church etc. but in practice we both know that they are not.
That is the whole issue here. It’s not a 2 wrongs make a right thing at all. It’s “let’s slam the SSPX and not discuss anything wrongdoings within the Church”
I don’t see anyone telling you not to discuss the crisis we have in the Church. The problem is that SSPXers are approaching the crisis in the wrong manner.
That is the prevailing attitude here. The SSPX clergy are suspended currently and pray Mass and administer Sacraments anyway. That is a fact. And that is all the SSPX haters have. You even admitted hating a bit in your post above.
How far the Church has fallen that when priests and bishops illicitly and in many cases invalidly celebrate the Sacraments it is treated as no big deal!
But when a bishop in full communion undermines the wishes of the pope, you folks don’t want to speak of it. Because that would reveal disobedience within the Church. That would put the light on the hypocrisy of certain bishops. They denounce the SSPX for disobedience and are disobedient themselves.
Simply not true. But several things must be kept in mind. Namely… neither you nor I nor the SSPX has authority to judge the bishops or priests of Holy Mother Church. All we can and indeed must do is pray.

If your bishop has fallen into heresy (further noting that you nor I nor the SSPX have the authority to judge him a heretic) then you pray for him and contact Rome about your concerns. If your bishop is disobedient towards Rome and the Holy Father’s wishes then you pray for him and contact Rome about your concerns.

When did we as Catholics cease looking on prayer as a truly viable option of solving our problems? By imploring God’s grace and placing ourselves in His mercy and providence?

No! We would all rather sit and gossip about what Bishop so-and-so said yesterday than prayer for him and shut our mouths and know our roles.

The bishops (with proper faculties) are the authorities of the Church. The current movement amongst the laity to seize power, whether they be “liberal” or “traditionalist”, is a great evil and is at the root of the problems we face this day.

If I may I would like to quote Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson: know your role and shut your mouth!
 
This is one thing I hate about SSPXers. In the past I’ve stated that in all reality the SSPX has set its self up as the Church. Lets face it… to an SSPXer, if you don’t attend an SSPX Mass you are not Catholic.
I have never heard an SSPX-er say this. Never. Maybe some one or the other of them has, but I know and have known several of them and none of them say this.

What they DO say is that they have reservations about the NO on two grounds:
  1. They don’t think it faithfully follows the traditional format of the Mass. They don’t say that invalidates the Mass, but it might also be observed that the VAtican is working right now on trying to more faithfully translate the words of the Tridentine Mass for use in the NO. So, they’re not totally all wet on that. There really have been some bad translations by ICEL, and some of them were on the edge of being at odds with Church teaching.
  2. They do think there is a lot of license being taken with the Mass, and in an uncontrolled and idiosyncratic fashion. This, they think, COULD make some of the NO Masses invalid. That’s a concern a lot of people, including NO attenders on here have had. If some “spirit of VII” priest decides to say Mass in a way that’s idiosyncratic to him, how sure can we be that he really performed it validly?
Yes, I think their status is a mess and a shame. But I don’t see anything heretical about them, nor do I think their sacraments are invalid. SSPX had its beginnings in France and took root over here among people who were somewhat varied in their misgivings. But while I would have greatly preferred to see LeFevre and the whole bunch at least try more to reform the wilder outlier results of the misinterpretations of VII, I think they did what they did in good faith.

Regardless, they are closer in doctrine to the Latin Church than are, say, the Byzantine Catholic Churches. In fact, I have never heard any of them say anything I would consider at odds with any teachings of the Church. It’s more a matter of the applications and some of the abuses we all know perfectly well developed here and there.

Right now, as I understand it, the “separating issue” is accepting the authority of the bishops in their locales. It is my understanding that they’re very nervous about potentially being oppressed by some “spirit of Vatican II” kind of bishop. There’s some basis for that. Might Mahoney, for example, have ordered some of their priests to say “rainbow Masses”. Mahoney did that himself, you know, so why should they have assumed he wouldn’t force them into that mould?

I think it will eventually work out, and certainly hope it does.
 
I did say that in theory the SSPX still go on about being a part of the Church in theory but the reality of the matter, how things actually stand in their communities, is that they consider themselves the Church and Rome has to come to them.
 
I did say that in theory the SSPX still go on about being a part of the Church in theory but the reality of the matter, how things actually stand in their communities, is that they consider themselves the Church and Rome has to come to them.
Ultimately the Church is the congregation of all, who are saved regardless of their religion. This is the eternal, Triumphant Church.

In their life all believe that they represent the true religion.

They are out of the Church only if the know that this isn’t true and refuse to repent, or do not follow the rules of their religion.

This does not mean that all religion is equal, only that we all are partial imperfect beings, able to grasp only morsels of the truth.

The tragedy of the SSPX is not their insistence that they represent truth, but their believe that they represent THE TRUTH.
 
. . . nor do I think their sacraments are invalid.
Determining whether their sacraments are valid, invalid, licit or illicit is the sole prerogative of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, not individual members.
 
The temptation is really an old one. It’s to get what you want without obeying God and the authority He established. Consider that the serpent tempted Eve first instead of going directly to Adam, ignoring the order of authority that God had established. What troubles me sometimes is how vehemently some people seem to want things to change to their liking without appealing to and subsequently submitting to the proper authorities. And that does not necessarily exclude some of the posts I have read here. Obedience is often a sacrifice. Abraham laid his only beloved son, Isaac, on the altar, prefiguring that which our own Father would do with His Son, Jesus, even when it appeared that to obey would entirely negate that which God has promised him. I know there are some here who want things to change, and there are others who don’t want anything to change, but we are all still one Body in Christ and there are no alternatives to unity other than schism. If the SSPX was even mildly schismatic, then what does that say about anyone who might admire them or the things that they believe? It’s like voting for Mitt Romney despite his blatant Mormonism. Just because he has conservative viewpoints doesn’t make him a good candidate. I hope that some here will recognize that the unity of the RC church has been in danger of compromise countless times but it is only through humility and obedience that we remain, as Jesus prayed, One.
 
Ultimately the Church is the congregation of all, who are saved regardless of their religion. This is the eternal, Triumphant Church.

In their life all believe that they represent the true religion.

They are out of the Church only if the know that this isn’t true and refuse to repent, or do not follow the rules of their religion.

This does not mean that all religion is equal, only that we all are partial imperfect beings, able to grasp only morsels of the truth.

The tragedy of the SSPX is not their insistence that they represent truth, but their believe that they represent THE TRUTH.
Just… no. This is riddled with Protestant errors (invisible Church) and secularist relativism.

The Catholic Church under the Roman Pontiff is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour and protected by the Holy Ghost. The fullness of the Truth lies in Holy Mother Church’s bosom. There is no salvation outside of her.
 
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