What is the use of consciousness?

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The whole point around Libet experience is that decision is made prior to experience of decision which the later take place in conscious mind. In other word decision is a subconscious product hence conscious mind is inert.
You have to be more precise with your explanation. The experiment doesn’t imply that decision comes before awareness or consciousness, only that the decision comes before awareness that the decision is completed. In other words the person wasn’t aware that their mind was made up until after the fact. that doesn’t mean they weren’t aware the whole time though. Awareness and consciousness are present the whole time and consequently they are playing a part the whole time.
 
You have to be more precise with your explanation. The experiment doesn’t imply that decision comes before awareness or consciousness, only that the decision comes before awareness that the decision is completed. In other words the person wasn’t aware that their mind was made up until after the fact. that doesn’t mean they weren’t aware the whole time though. Awareness and consciousness are present the whole time and consequently they are playing a part the whole time.
Yes, I agree with your interpretation and sorry if my wording cause misunderstanding.
 
Bahman’s post 57
If you like I can invite you to a simple example to say what is duty of sub/consciousness mind are. Assume that you are listening to music while you are reading a book. You cannot experience both music and the content of book at the same time but one at a time when your focus switch from one to another, you then become conscious of content of book or music as your focus switch.
I agree. 😃
Your sense of hearing and sense of sight cannot absorb the full meaning and experience of the music and book until your conscious turns attention to the matter.
In this case, the “subconscious” is nothing more than the senses of hearing and sight taking in sensory (name removed by moderator)ut which will be retained in memory to a greater or lesser degree, but the senses of hearing and sight are incapable of assigning meanings, appreciations, whatever, to the sensory (name removed by moderator)ut and are not the “subconscious”. ( Given that there may be some memory of the sensory (name removed by moderator)ut as I just mentioned, there may be some working over of the meanings, appreciations etc of the sensory (name removed by moderator)ut later intentionally or unintentional by the conscious, but to say there is a separate entity called the unconscious doing this is quite a stretch. How would you differentiate between conscious and unconscious in this example? You couldn’t.
Both information however is brought to subconsciousness itself yet it could not lead to a knowledge since it is not centre of focus.
Sensory (name removed by moderator)uts are recorded by the senses of hearing and sight without our being aware of them if we’re not thinking about them, but it’s only the memory of these sensations that are recorded, not the information.
Later, we may turn our conscious attention to the memory of these sensory (name removed by moderator)uts and instantly reach judgements on them, but this information is generated by the conscious, not the unconscious.
And so, somebody may stare at a textbook on calculus sixteen hours a day for twenty years, and still not understand calculus until he consciously turns his attention to it.
 
The problem with Libet’s experiment, and others like it, is that they involve the performing of completely trivial actions, with no moral or personal consequences.

A similar study (the name of which I can’t recall at the moment, but will try to find later) asked subjects to press one of two buttons. The study found that over 60% of the subjects chose the button indicated by their neural activity prior to their being consciously aware of that decision.

The problem with this study, again, is that the action being performed is totally inconsequential, and thus it is not only understandable but incredibly likely that people are going to follow their “impulses” in making this decision. This study in no way accounts for the undeniable fact that we are aware of what we are about to do before we do it and can use our reason and conscience to avert ourselves from performing dangerous, immoral or otherwise undesirable acts. That is the “use of consciousness.”

Going back to Libet, though, his work has been subject to some pretty devastating criticism from numerous philosophers, including Daniel Dennett. Here are a few excerpts from Wikipedia’s entry on Benjamin Libet:

“A more general criticism from a dualist-interactionist perspective has been raised by Alexander Batthyany, who points out that Libet asked his subjects to merely “let the urge [to move] appear on its own at any time without any pre-planning or concentration on when to act”. According to Batthyany, neither reductionist nor non-reductionist agency theories claim that urges which appear on their own are suitable examples of (allegedly) consciously caused events because one cannot passively wait for an urge to occur while at the same time being the one who is consciously bringing it about. Libet’s results thus cannot be interpreted to provide empirical evidence in favour of agency reductionism, since non-reductionist theories, even including dualist interactionism, would predict the very same experimental results.”

*"Daniel Dennett argues that no clear conclusion about volition can be derived from Libet’s experiment because of ambiguities in the timings of the different events involved. Libet tells when the readiness potential occurs objectively, using electrodes, but relies on the subject reporting the position of the hand of a clock to determine when the conscious decision was made. As Dennett points out, this is only a report of where it seems to the subject that various things come together, not of the objective time at which they actually occur:

‘Suppose Libet knows that your readiness potential peaked at second 6,810 of the experimental trial, and the clock dot was straight down (which is what you reported you saw) at millisecond 7,005. How many milliseconds should he have to add to this number to get the time you were conscious of it? The light gets from your clock face to your eyeball almost instantaneously, but the path of the signals from retina through lateral geniculate nucleus to striate cortex takes 5 to 10 milliseconds — a paltry fraction of the 300 milliseconds offset, but how much longer does it take them to get to you. (Or are you located in the striate cortex?) The visual signals have to be processed before they arrive at wherever they need to arrive for you to make a conscious decision of simultaneity. Libet’s method presupposes, in short, that we can locate the intersection of two trajectories: • the rising-to-consciousness of signals representing the decision to flick • the rising to consciousness of signals representing successive clock-face orientations so that these events occur side-by-side as it were in place where their simultaneity can be noted.’"*

So, in sum, I personally think your question is moot.
 
The problem with Libet’s experiment, and others like it, is that they involve the performing of completely trivial actions, with no moral or personal consequences.
That at least says that a consciousness is inert in these type of actions. The problem with more complex actions is that we possibly cannot trace the causality sequence. Nevertheless, what bring conscienceless to focal focus cannot be consciousness itself.
A similar study (the name of which I can’t recall at the moment, but will try to find later) asked subjects to press one of two buttons. The study found that over 60% of the subjects chose the button indicated by their neural activity prior to their being consciously aware of that decision.
I would be happy to have the reference.
 
That at least says that a consciousness is inert in these type of actions.
But what does that prove? Nothing. At least nothing that common sense hasn’t told us for ages.
The problem with more complex actions is that we possibly cannot trace the causality sequence.
There are more problems than that. When it comes to consciousness, the age old adage of correlation =/= causation is incontrovertibly at play.
Nevertheless, what bring conscienceless to focal focus cannot be consciousness itself.
I don’t understand what this means. Did you mean to type “conscience” or “consciousness?” “Conscienceless” doesn’t make sense in this context.
I would be happy to have the reference.
I’ll see what I can do. It might have been one of Libet’s studies, even.
 
I don’t understand what this means. Did you mean to type “conscience” or “consciousness?” “Conscienceless” doesn’t make sense in this context.
No, I meant consciousness. In a daily life our focal focuses move from one subject to another subject and when the focal point has changed on a subject we say that we are conscious of current subject. What I mean is, consciousness can not cause the change of focal focus on a subject since itself is subject to change. What changes the focal focus as we have a common sense about is subconsciousness. We cannot say that my consciousness change my focal focus from a subject to another subject so I become conscious of the second subject since we cannot be conscious of two subjects at the same time. This has serious consequence on our belief of free will, as most people think that our decision is made by conscious mind yet not noticing that decision cannot be performed on conscious mind since conscious mind is not that rich to keep several subjects at the same time under focal focus then decide about which has advantage over other hence decision is an unconscious act as well. You can think of problem solving in same manner when several factors are involved. So we end up with the old question: what is the use of consciousness?
 
If you weren’t conscious you wouldn’t be asking that question!
Nah, you at least should provide one other example since your answer carry this meaning that there is no use for consciousness at all except questioning what is use of it?
 
As ususl Bahman is peddling a something contray to Catholic teaching.

This is contrary to Catholic teaching. All should be aware that Bahman constently attempts to get Catholics and Christians to disagree with Divine Revelation and the teaching of the Church. He is attacking Christian Faith.Ignore him, he is messing with your mind.

Linus2nd
 
You again, why you don’t stop chasing me?😃 People in here are all mature. A little mind exercise won’t send anyone to hell!
 
As ususl Bahman is peddling a something contray to Catholic teaching.
This is contrary to Catholic teaching. All should be aware that Bahman constently attempts to get Catholics and Christians to disagree with Divine Revelation and the teaching of the Church. He is attacking Christian Faith.Ignore him, he is messing with your mind.
Right on, Linus !!! 👍

Bahman is trying to regurgitate this consciousness humbug with a new thread called “Decision is not a conscious act”,
which is easily torn apart as are all anti-Catholic ideas.
 
Right on, Linus !!! 👍

Bahman is trying to regurgitate this consciousness humbug with a new thread called “Decision is not a conscious act”,
which is easily torn apart as are all anti-Catholic ideas.
If the OP understood the reality of the spiritual soul, it would all fall into place.
 
If you weren’t conscious you wouldn’t be asking that question!
On the contrary. The ability to ask questions demonstrates the value of consciousness. It is the reason why we have outstripped all other forms of life in the realm of thought and understanding of reality.
 
On the contrary. The ability to ask questions demonstrates the value of consciousness. It is the reason why we have outstripped all other forms of life in the realm of thought and understanding of reality.
How did you deduce that thought and understand of reality is a realm of consciousness? It seems to me that only the outcome, namely experience, is what consciousness deals with it. The experience of an event is inert and it has to be since the event has its causal effect. The next question is then, what is the use of consciousness/experience?
 
How did you deduce that thought and understand of reality is a realm of consciousness? It seems to me that only the outcome, namely experience, is what consciousness deals with it. The experience of an event is inert and it has to be since the event has its causal effect. The next question is then, what is the use of consciousness/experience?
The success of science is ample evidence of the reality and value of consciousness. Why have we discovered and invented so many devices unlike other forms of life? By Chance? :rolleyes:
 
The success of science is ample evidence of the reality and value of consciousness. Why have we discovered and invented so many devices unlike other forms of life? By Chance? :rolleyes:
Not by chance of course, since event itself has already an impact, through causal chain, on us. My question is then what is the use of experience? In another word, there is a clear distinction between an event and experiencing the event, the former can cause some changes and the later has to be inert.
 
Not by chance of course, since event itself has already an impact, through causal chain, on us. My question is then what is the use of experience? In another word, there is a clear distinction between an event and experiencing the event, the former can cause some changes and the later has to be inert.
You are dividing the mind into isolated compartments as if there is no interaction between consciousness and free will. What gives you such privileged insight into our psychological and spiritual activity?

You are also using experience to deny the value of experience!
 
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