Mary_Gail_36
New member
I think you are exagerating. No one hear has said not eating vegetables is a mortal sin. The Church doesn’t teach that.
What is the youngest a person can be and commit a mortal sin?
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
“Honor your mother and your Father”
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Well, I think Jesus would know the entire back story of a child. Notice though, you didn’t die as a child. You are still here.
The state of your soul on the day you die is what counts.
Bishop Sheen tells the story of a dying man who refused to receive the sacraments. Bishop Sheen kept going to see him. He would ask, “I’m here, would you like to make your peace with the Lord” The man would be furious, and shout “No get out of here.”
Finally Bishop Sheen was desperate, he said to the man, “At least say, Jesus have mercy on me, a sinner.”
“No!” he shouted.
The last night Bishop Sheen went, and found that the man had died. He was heart broken, and asked the nurse if he was alone.
The nurse replied, that he was…and his last hour was spent repeating, “Jesus have Mercy on me a sinner.”
We pray to our Lady, “pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.” She fervently wants us to go to her Son. And He would look to the ends of the earth for one lost sheep.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
I am just so tired of constantly hearing about what trash everybody (even a child) is and how we are forever standing on tiptoe leaning over the gaping mouth of hell and the only way to avoid it is either by living outside the confessional or by some great miracle at the moment of death.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
He was probably just afraid of Hell. We all know what good that does without sacramental confession
Mary_Gail_36
New member
He was probably just afraid of Hell. We all know what good that does without sacramental confession
Really?Even Padre Pio told a woman whose son jumped off a bridge that he was not lost, but repented on the way down.
How can the Church think we are trash? The Church teaches that even if you were the only person on Earth, Jesus would still die for you . Look at what Jesus did? For the love of us. How can we be trash?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
No wait, you look at YOURSELF. You are trying to turn this into “you can’t believe God could do this to children”. . .but that’s your own cockeyed and erroneous misunderstanding of God, and of free will, and of hell.
Just because you don’t ‘think’ (not ‘know’ but ‘think’) that children can comprehend moral truths that are not '1 + 1 =2" level doesn’t make you right.
Actually you have rather a dim view of children. You really believe children will ‘believe anything we tell them?’ Yikes.
You really do not know what children are like at all.
I DO listen to what Jesus said. After all, HE is the one who spoke of the ‘narrow gate’.
He never said, “all are welcome in heaven, especially anybody under age 25 because they don’t have the capacity to make the kind of decisions about hell that could damn them.”
He never said, “the road is narrow, well, that is, if you’re over 25. Under 25s have a free pass because when I say to suffer the children, I mean that only children, and of course you adults who don’t have the kind of psychological MATURITY to be able to think big deep thoughts, are assured of getting in to heaven no matter what.”
I’m surprised that you’re trying to argue personal opinion and EMOTIONS and misinterpretations rather than actually address the topic.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
I’m sorry Mary, I’m pregnant and emotional and I don’t understand how God could ever let one of these little ones go to hell without granting them the contrition they need to at least go to purgatory. It makes me feel awful and hopeless and I just want my kids to be happy and love Jesus and not have to worry all the time that something so small and ridiculous is going to send them to hell. How can anyone have joy about anything when we have a Church who teaches us that there could be kids in hell? Let’s face it, hell is just the eternal human trash can, only we just burn and burn forever without actually being consumed like ordinary trash.
Even Padre Pio told a woman whose son jumped off a bridge that he was not lost, but repented on the way down.
How can the Church think we are trash? The Church teaches that even if you were the only person on Earth, Jesus would still die for you . Look at what Jesus did? For the love of us. How can we be trash?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
With respect, it gets pretty annoying to hear from you over and over about being ‘cast into hellfire’ as though it was GOD who was doing the casting.
What part of “freely chosen” are you having trouble with?
And where in the Catechism does it specifically state that a person WILL be cast into hell for not eating vegetables? Must be the vegan edition.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
Whatever. Clearly you want to believe there are kids in hell, so go for it. All I know is, anyone who believes that a RABBIT brings candy to every child in the world on Easter and then hides it around the house is not capable of the kind of decision-making that results in mortal sin.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
The idea that Hell is freely chosen is ********. You would have to be a moron to understand that you are choosing hell and do it anyway. And if your parents tell you to eat your veggies and you deliberately disobey them as a 7 year old who is apparently fully capable of mortal sin, then you are not honoring your parents and will burn in hell if you don’t get a ride or walk your little *** to confession before you die.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I didn’t know you were pregnant, congratualtions…Is this your first child?
Of course you want your kids to love Jesus…and really, don’t worry about them comitting mortal sins as a given.
Pray for them, pray with them. Teach them to love Jesus…little children taught to love Jesus love him so purely.
My baby is two. One of the first words he ever said was Jesus. He kisses the picture of baby Jesus.
And I think He does grant them the contrition, or at least waits until they have it.
Sister Faustina taught that God calls to each soul at their death.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
Thanks Mary
I have a 1.5 year old son as well, and NOTHING could make me let him suffer in hell forever. I don’t care if I had to die 1000 times or wait forever. I just wish I could be confident in my and my family’s salvation for once, but the way it’s set up, the Church never lets you just feel safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. If you’re not in a state of grace (which I’m not because I’ve given up confession after several attempts at good confessions where something invalidated them and I’m not going back and confessing all my life’s sins yet AGAIN) you feel like ****, and if you are in a state of grace, you know you won’t stay that way and you just have to basically beg God every day not to let you die after committing a mortal sin. It’s exhausting, demoralizing and terrifying all at once and I don’t want my children to live that way
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Ok, the pregnancy part makes me understand a bit better. Hon, I have three children now in their 20s and you think that I don’t worry every day for their souls? That I don’t pray? But NOT because I picture God as some giant being waiting to yell “Gotcha” and throw my child into hell as he screams for mercy. . .because it doesn’t WORK that way.
What I worry about is that my children will be caught up in the idea that they CAN’T sin. Humanity you know is just so dang wonderful, and if there’s a God well, if we make a ‘poor decision’ it’s HIS fault for not making things clear and gee, did I ASK to be born? It’s not MY fault. . .blah blah blah. . .
Pride. The kind of pride that says that I CAN’T do any wrong that won’t (even if I NEVER feel sorry for doing it) be ‘wiped away’ by a God who will MAKE me go to heaven even if I’m Hitler and want to stalk through heaven screaming abuse at every Jewish person there. . .and of course, they’ll have to accept that for them, heaven will mean an eternity of Adolf calling them swine. (awful thought, but that’s what people who think that there is nobody in hell are really picturing if they carry their theory through. . .either the evil person gets to go on ‘eviling’ in heaven, or else God ‘erases’ their badness. So the ‘good person’ who worked hard to do the right thing goes to heaven, and the bad person . .gets his memory wiped, a new ‘do right’ mentally installed, and all is well. So much for free will. . .)
Of course, Adolf might have repented and will spend his eternity apologizing to those he hurt and being forgiven.
But if Adolf didn’t repent, he is NOT in hell, ‘begging for mercy’. You need to get that ‘scene’ out of your mind.
Even if it’s a little child in hell (God forbid) that child is NOT there unwillingly or unwittingly and that child WILL NOT REPENT. EVER. He will not ‘beg for mercy’, he will be refusing mercy. It’s actually a more horrible picture if you can understand (many can’t) a person who is so full of hate that he won’t even WANT to leave hell even though he was offered the chance for heaven.
God DOES give each and every one of us sufficient grace to be saved. But He can’t MAKE us ‘choose good’. If He could, we wouldn’t have ‘free’ will, we would be ‘programmed’. God loves every one of us, we are ALL his children whether we are preborn, newborn, child, teen, adult, or aged, we are precious in His sight and equally loved.
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
The thing is, I think there’s a huge difference between committing a sin and hating/rejecting God. You can commit a sin, like sleeping in instead of going to mass, and not hate God. It was just a selfish decision. But guess what? If you die, you get to go to hell with Hitler and Stalin, even if you’re 8.
How does committing a sin equal rejecting God forever? It doesn’t. I might willingly do something that I know my husband would not want me to do, like buy that pair of shoes I’ve had my eye on, and NOT be sorry about it. That doesn’t mean I don’t love him, that I don’t want to be with him, and guess what? He’ll get over it, even if I flat-out tell him that I knew he would be mad but I really wanted those shoes. It doesn’t change our feelings for each other and it certainly won’t affect our relationship for more than a day.
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Bookcat
Guest
Huh??? who said anyone is trash? Or that children are trash?
We do not tiptoe leaning over a gaping mouth of hell.
We are to live in Christ…in joy! It is about life!
Jesus loves us and desires us to live …to have life abundantly!
He gives a Christian in baptism …divine life…makes them children of God…children of light …and not just the little ones (though we all need to be receive the kingdom in littleness) …and if we choose something that is death to that life…he as the Good Shepherd desires to restore that life…he will not force us…but he desires us to be restored to his life…
and even those who have not heard his name…he can find ways …
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Bookcat
Guest
One can commit a mortal sin for all sorts of reasons…one need not hate God. One could choose for whatever reason to do what is grave matter…and with full knowledge and deliberate consent…sort of like a wife choosing to cheat on her husband not out of hatred for him…but cause she likes or “loves” the the other guy. Such is different than say her getting a little angry at him for leaving his shoes in the wrong place.
But the kind of sin that does not break the relationship is called venial sin …not mortal sin.
A particular 8 year old may not commit a mortal sin…no matter how many Masses he misses…it may be a venial sin due to the lack of one or both of the other qualities…God of course knows the child …and knows his particular limitations etc…
hopefully mortal sin is far away from any child at that age…and only the love of God fills their hearts
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Bookcat
Guest
This is from a meeting Pope Benedict XVI had with little children who had had their first holy communion within the last year (so they are around 7-8 it would seem for the most part) This is a very wonderful meeting. He wonderfully expresses things. I suggest reading the whole thing after reading this part:
- Livia
(Pope Benedict XBI)
I will tell you two things. The first, of course, is that you do not always have to go to confession before you receive Communion unless you have committed such serious sins that they need to be confessed. Therefore, it is not necessary to make one’s confession before every Eucharistic Communion. This is the first point. It is only necessary when you have committed a really serious sin, when you have deeply offended Jesus, so that your friendship is destroyed and you have to start again. Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point.
My second point: even if, as I said, it is not necessary to go to confession before each Communion, it is very helpful to confess with a certain regularity. It is true: our sins are always the same, but we clean our homes, our rooms, at least once a week, even if the dirt is always the same; in order to live in cleanliness, in order to start again. Otherwise, the dirt might not be seen but it builds up. Something similar can be said about the soul, for me myself: if I never go to confession, my soul is neglected and in the end I am always pleased with myself and no longer understand that I must always work hard to improve, that I must make progress. And this cleansing of the soul which Jesus gives us in the Sacrament of Confession helps us to make our consciences more alert, more open, and hence, it also helps us to mature spiritually and as human persons. Therefore, two things: confession is only necessary in the case of a serious sin, but it is very helpful to confess regularly in order to foster the cleanliness and beauty of the soul and to mature day by day in life."
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2005/october/documents/hf_ben_xvi_spe_20051015_meeting-children_en.html
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Bookcat
Guest
This is from a meeting **Pope Benedict XVI **had with little children who had had their first holy communion within the last year (so they are around 7-8 it would seem for the most part) This is a very wonderful meeting. He wonderfully expresses things. I suggest reading the whole thing after reading this part:
- Livia
(Pope Benedict XBI)
I will tell you two things. The first, of course, is that you do not always have to go to confession before you receive Communion unless you have committed such serious sins that they need to be confessed. Therefore, it is not necessary to make one’s confession before every Eucharistic Communion. This is the first point. It is only necessary when you have committed a really serious sin, when you have deeply offended Jesus, so that your friendship is destroyed and you have to start again. Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point.
My second point: even if, as I said, it is not necessary to go to confession before each Communion, it is very helpful to confess with a certain regularity. It is true: our sins are always the same, but we clean our homes, our rooms, at least once a week, even if the dirt is always the same; in order to live in cleanliness, in order to start again. Otherwise, the dirt might not be seen but it builds up. Something similar can be said about the soul, for me myself: if I never go to confession, my soul is neglected and in the end I am always pleased with myself and no longer understand that I must always work hard to improve, that I must make progress. And this cleansing of the soul which Jesus gives us in the Sacrament of Confession helps us to make our consciences more alert, more open, and hence, it also helps us to mature spiritually and as human persons. Therefore, two things: confession is only necessary in the case of a serious sin, but it is very helpful to confess regularly in order to foster the cleanliness and beauty of the soul and to mature day by day in life."
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2005/october/documents/hf_ben_xvi_spe_20051015_meeting-children_en.html
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davidv
Guest
How does teaching your children the truth make them more likely sin? Jesus tells us just the opposite. He said that Truth sets us free.
Sin damages us even if we are unaware that it is a sin. If the act is committed against someone else, they are also damaged, whether the one doing so is guilty of sin, or not.
Edit: In other words sin is sin independent of our guilt.
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