What is the youngest a person can be and commit a mortal sin?

[Thoughtfulone]

O.K., thank you for answering honestly. So we all agree that even the most mature and intelligent 13/14 year old probably lacks the maturity to make a lifetime commitment to something as serious as marriage. A person this young cannot understand what it means to give themselves to another person for the rest of their lives. Such an understanding won’t come until much later.

If a person at 13/14 is incapable of truly being able to decide what to do with the rest of their lives (60 years or so), to the point of actually making the sacrament of marriage impossible to undertake or invalid if attempted, then CLEARLY that same person is unable to decide what they will do with their immortal soul for all of ETERNITY. Obviously, a person who does not understand what it means to give oneself to another person for the next 65 years does not understand what it means to give themselves to SATAN for the next 50 trillion plus years. (JUST knowing the difference between right and wrong is not enough. A dog can be taught the difference between right and wrong. They MUST be able to understand the full consequences of mortal sin, WHY it is what it is, HOW it separates us from God for eternity, and WHAT eternity without God means.)

If a person cannot understand or undertake marriage because of a limited ability to make decisions that affect the remainder of their mortal life, they CERTAINLY lack the ability to make decisions that will affect the fate of their eternal soul.

If one does not truly understand what one is doing by committing a sin, then that person does NOT have complete consent - complete consent is impossible - and that person is incapable of mortal sin and therefore CANNOT go to Hell.

 

[Bookcat]

O.K., since most people here don’t put much stock in “science” and"biology", I have a something for you to ponder:

If you had a 13 year old daughter who was very mature, highly intelligent, discerning, trustworthy, etc. and she came up to you and told you that she wanted to marry a certain boy in one year (a 17 year old, known by you, with all of those same qualities), and she wanted your permission to do so, what would you say? She and this boy are in Confirmation class together and play together on the chess team and have a very chaste relationship, but know each other well. She wants to spend the rest of her life with him. Do you allow it?

Ill advised in this case does not mean impossible… per se.

 

[allyl]

This may be a controversial view but I don’t believe so much in the concept of the mortal sin. I know that there is one sin which cannot be forgiven which is blasphemy against the holy spirit.
I think it’s important to remember the story where the rich man comes to Jesus, Jesus says in that story that “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” and “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”
So I think that even though as a human being, crimes have various degrees of gravity but for God, all sins are equal and it might be a difficult concept but I agree with it because as humans, I don’t think we have a right to compare ourselves with someone who we think is worse than us and to think ‘I’m better than that.’ Quite often, the whole idea of mortal sins does this.

 

[Bookcat]

You are right, a child is capable of doing all of those things, and teenagers are capable of much, much worse. My point is, that in a teenager or a child, NONE of these sins could possibly rise to the level of mortality because they are unable to UNDERSTAND the meaning of rejecting God for eternity. They cannot give their full consent to such a permanent act. Any of these sins, in a person who cannot fully understand the consequences, would be venial.

Your conclusion does not follow.

A teenager is capable of committing a mortal sin.

Just because they may not be as mature or biologically developed as a 30 year old does not mean they can not commit a mortal sin…

And just because an 18 year old is not as biologically developed as a 25 year old does not mean they cannot get married…(they can do so even younger) or enter the military and serve their country or religious life…or other life changing decisions…

The have been doing so for centuries and have been recognized as capable of such for centuries…for they are indeed capable.

The fact that they are not as mature perhaps or biologically developed …and can even be more prone to mistaken judgment than say a 30 year old …does not mean they are not capable.

 

[Bookcat]

This may be a controversial view but I don’t believe so much in the concept of the mortal sin. I know that there is one sin which cannot be forgiven which is blasphemy against the holy spirit.
I think it’s important to remember the story where the rich man comes to Jesus, Jesus says in that story that “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” and “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”
So I think that even though as a human being, crimes have various degrees of gravity but for God, all sins are equal and it might be a difficult concept but I agree with it because as humans, I don’t think we have a right to compare ourselves with someone who we think is worse than us and to think ‘I’m better than that.’ Quite often, the whole idea of mortal sins does this.

Moral sin can be forgiven…as can any sin…(before death)

All sin is not equal…

…to say such would make stealing a pencil equal to killing your mother.

 

[Bookcat]

A teenager is capable of entering into a valid marriage…and committing a mortal sin…and committing great acts of virtue and even martyrdom etc…

As to each sin and each teen…God is the judge…

 

[Bookcat]

If a person cannot understand or undertake marriage because of a limited ability to make decisions that affect the remainder of their mortal life, they CERTAINLY lack the ability to make decisions that will affect the fate of their eternal soul.

.

A teenager is capable of entering into a valid marriage…and committing a mortal sin…and committing great acts of virtue and even martyrdom etc…

As to each sin and each teen…God is the judge…and he sees all the aspects …he knows each person very well…

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Even secular law agrees.

There are many cases of children being tried as adults, and being convicted.

There is a case in Rhode Island. A man is due for release from jail after serving 30 years for murdering and cannibilizing a 5 year old. The crime was committed at age 15t.

A 14 year old can be found guilty of a crime.

aolnews.com/2011/03/07/murderer-and-accused-cannibal-michael-woodmansee-to-be-freed-in/

I think a high percentage of 14 year olds would know that doing that to a 5 year old is depraved.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Even secular law agrees.

There are many cases of children being tried as adults, and being convicted.

There is a case in Rhode Island. A man is due for release from jail after serving 30 years for murdering and cannibilizing a 5 year old. The crime was committed at age 15t.

A 14 year old can be found guilty of a crime.

aolnews.com/2011/03/07/murderer-and-accused-cannibal-michael-woodmansee-to-be-freed-in/

I think a high percentage of 14 year olds would know that doing that to a 5 year old is depraved.

Secular law and God’s law are 2 very different things. Secular law MUST try some kids as adults because otherwise, they couldn’t keep them in jail past their 18th birthday.

And of course most 14 year olds know it’s wrong to kill and eat a 5 year old, but that doesn’t mean they are capable of understanding the eternal implications of such an action. A 3 year old knows not to cross the street without a parent, but they don’t understand that if they try it alone they might get flattened by a semi and completely cease to exist. There is a difference between knowledge and understanding, and understanding is a key component of mortal sin.

 

[allyl]

Moral sin can be forgiven…as can any sin…(before death)

All sin is not equal…

…to say such would make stealing a pencil equal to killing your mother.

I don’t believe in mortal sins because that is a way of justifying smaller sins.
“Oh, I stole a pencil but hey, I didn’t kill my mother.”
God does say that some sins will have a more severe punishment but the fact that all sins have a punishment means that we can’t judge to say that just because we haven’t done this or that that we are more worthy of salvation because all sin separates us from God. Paul says 'For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

 

[Thoughtfulone]

A teenager is capable of entering into a valid marriage…and committing a mortal sin…and committing great acts of virtue and even martyrdom etc…

As to each sin and each teen…God is the judge…and he sees all the aspects …he knows each person very well…

A 14 year old is not emotionally capable of contracting a valid marriage.unless God specifically comes down from heaven to give them that mental clarity and understanding. Same for martyrdom. Teenage martyrs are sanctified by God and given a special understanding of His nature that other teenagers do not possess.

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t believe in mortal sins because that is a way of justifying smaller sins.
“Oh, I stole a pencil but hey, I didn’t kill my mother.”
God does say that some sins will have a more severe punishment but the fact that all sins have a punishment means that we can’t judge to say that just because we haven’t done this or that that we are more worthy of salvation because all sin separates us from God. Paul says 'For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Not it is not a justification. All sins are sins. But it is reality.

We are saved by grace…by Jesus Christ.

But we can reject such by mortal sin…and will need more grace infused to be once again living true life. Life in Christ.

 

[Bookcat]

What is the impediment BC? And why would it be ill-advised?

I changed this post.

 

[Bookcat]

A 14 year old is not emotionally capable of contracting a valid marriage.unless God specifically comes down from heaven to give them that mental clarity and understanding.

Such is not the case. Though they can certainly need some advice etc from their parents.

 

[Bookcat]

All those poor people who got married at 18…we should let them know they were not capable of it…and all those who went off to join the military…and all those who committed themselves to so many high things…and all those young empirical scientists who were already at it at a young age…

 

[prstoessel]

A lady who was involved with catechesis and stuff at churches in my archdiocese once said that she doesn’t teach children, such as those doing reconciliation preparation about venial and mortal sins because they cannot understand those things…

She is gravely wrong in her point of view. If she won’t teach them about mortal sin, who will? The parents? Not even they know about it!

 

[davidv]

Secular law and God’s law are 2 very different things. Secular law MUST try some kids as adults because otherwise, they couldn’t keep them in jail past their 18th birthday.

And of course most 14 year olds know it’s wrong to kill and eat a 5 year old, but that doesn’t mean they are capable of understanding the eternal implications of such an action. A 3 year old knows not to cross the street without a parent, but they don’t understand that if they try it alone they might get flattened by a semi and completely cease to exist. There is a difference between knowledge and understanding, and understanding is a key component of mortal sin.

Understanding the eternal consequences of a sin are not part of the criteria that define it as mortal.

1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart 133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

Note that this definition contains no statement about knowledge of consequences. It only speaks of the knowledge of the “sinful character of the act”.

That said, children and teens can definitely commit mortal sins.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

A 14 year can’t legally consent to marry in most U.S. states in AD 2011. . .but that didn’t mean the reason is that all 14 year old lacks the capacity to make such a judgment, always have and always will.

As I mentioned earlier, I believe, the middle class 14 year old in AD 2011 U.S. may be more technologically advanced than a 14 year old living 100, 200, 500, 1000 or more years ago.

But considering that a 14 year old today would have (in the U.S.) the statistical likelihood of living easily to age 84. . .that 14 year old has lived one SIXTH of life with 5/6 to go.

A 14 year old living in a first world country (Brittain) 500 years ago had a life expectancy overall of just about 30 years.

That 14 year old had already lived nearly HALF his/her life.

I’m not saying the 14 year old then is like the 42 year old of today, but I am saying that in a very different cultural, sociological, and environmental background with much SHORTER life spans, a 14 year old by necessity was more ‘mature’ and able to function as a mature person than SOME 14 year olds currently.

How about third world countries where the life expectancy is still under age 50? (Yes, they exist in AD 2011). Where literacy rates are under 50% and poverty is rife. You think that just because a 14 year old is (by “western psychology theories”) not capable of ‘understanding’ that 14 year olds who have lived about 1/3 of their lives would be just as 'incapable of understanding?"

You know at age 54 I can still remember when 18 was the threshold of adulthood, not the start of the next 12 years of “we can do what adults do without their responsibilities! madness” that we see currently in Gen X and Y. We were deemed able to commit ourselves to military service, to marriage, to the priesthood and religious life, and all sorts of actions which required being able to ‘understand’ all sorts of complex ideas. Silly us, we had no IDEA our little brains were not capable of making those judgments! How did we ever manage to build the kind of societies and raise the kind of geniuses who try to tell us what we are, and are not, 'capable of scientifically THINKING"?

 

[Shin]

I was curious where it came from so I did a search.
Sorry if I’m repeating anything - I just glanced at most of the thread and felt the need to defend St. Gregory.

Well, defending by disavowal isn’t much of a defense is it?

It’s from his most famous work, the Dialogues. The reason you did not find it more prevalently, is simply because there are alternate translations.

The Evergetinos is a collection of early Desert Fathers writings, very Catholic in its sources, and very useful in its content, though the publisher’s touch of course one must be prudent about.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Understanding the eternal consequences of a sin are not part of the criteria that define it as mortal.
Note that this definition contains no statement about knowledge of consequences. It only speaks of the knowledge of the “sinful character of the act”.

That said, children and teens can definitely commit mortal sins.

Wrong. “Complete consent” is where understanding comes in. If one does not have the ability to fully understand the consequences of an action, one cannot give complete consent.