What is this kind of chanting?

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Hello, i am a pre catholic/ cathecheum since a few weeks and I had a question about a form of worship that i heard many times in the church and on music from the monks.
youtube.com/watch?v=s7GqDZiI7d4 it is on 3;25

thanks 😃
 
That part is the Benedicamus Patrem. It’s Gregorian Chant, and it sounds very much like the prayers said after the Asperges on Sundays.
 
Yep. Gregorian chant by the monks of Notre Dame. Chant is mostly heard in the Extra Ordinary Form of the Mass, but not exclusively. some Ordinary Form Masses will use chant. Portland, Oregon’s Holy Rosary church is a Dominican church. Periodically they celebrate the Dominican Mass using Latin. Even in their Sunday OF Mass the choir, Cantores in Ecclesia, sings Gregorian chant.

I know there is a rising presence of chant in the church. It seems to lift the soul up to meet our Lord.
 
. Portland, Oregon’s Holy Rosary church is a Dominican church. Periodically they celebrate the Dominican Mass using Latin. Even in their Sunday OF Mass the choir, Cantores in Ecclesia, sings Gregorian chant.
So that’s where they went! I’ll have to go there next time I’m in Portland.
 
I heard a priest on Catholic Radio say that there is a desire to increase the use of Gregorian chant.

Ed
 
I heard a priest on Catholic Radio say that there is a desire to increase the use of Gregorian chant.
As a young adult Catholic, I can absolutely attest to this. The majority of the young Catholics I know are passionate about a return to tradition and restoration of the sacred šŸ™‚
 
I heard a priest on Catholic Radio say that there is a desire to increase the use of Gregorian chant.

Ed
Sometimes it takes decades or even centuries for the true fruits of an ecumenical council to fully mature. Vatican II declared that Gregorian chant was to have ā€œprimacy of placeā€ in our worship.
 
Bonnie,

They were at St. Stephen’s for several years. They sang the Saturday Vigil Mass each week. But they recently announced they were leaving there. Check the Holy Rosary website.
 
Sometimes it takes decades or even centuries for the true fruits of an ecumenical council to fully mature. Vatican II declared that Gregorian chant was to have ā€œprimacy of placeā€ in our worship.
ā€œ116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.ā€

That is not exactly a declaration, considering the use of the hortatory ā€œshouldā€, and ā€œpride of placeā€ is not exactly ā€œprimacy of placeā€.
 
ā€œ116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.ā€

That is not exactly a declaration, considering the use of the hortatory ā€œshouldā€, and ā€œpride of placeā€ is not exactly ā€œprimacy of placeā€.
But certainly the typical complete and utter abandonment of chant is not in the spirit of this paragraph.
 
ā€œ116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.ā€

That is not exactly a declaration, considering the use of the hortatory ā€œshouldā€, and ā€œpride of placeā€ is not exactly ā€œprimacy of placeā€.
How much more declarative does it really get? The Council found it important enough to explicitly state that Gregorian Chant is best for the liturgy.

Since chant is specially suited, it should be used, but it isn’t.
 
But certainly the typical complete and utter abandonment of chant is not in the spirit of this paragraph.
Given that most Sundays the Psalm is chanted, I am not sure that I would agree with"complete and utter" as qualifiers. And yes, plain chant is not Gregorian chant.

IMHO Gregorian chant to be done right needs to be done by a choir - I really hate to hear Gregorian chant slaughtered by a congregation. And the move seems to be away from choirs and more towards community singing - perhaps a bit along the line of who - St. Augustine? - who said ā€œhe who sings, prays twiceā€.

Gregorian chant was struggling some even during the time of Pius 12th, and struggled even more since then. Many would submit ā€œall things are no longer equalā€.

However, it is on my Pandora list, as well as Byzantine chant.
 
How much more declarative does it really get? The Council found it important enough to explicitly state that Gregorian Chant is best for the liturgy.

Since chant is specially suited, it should be used, but it isn’t.
You are reading what the bishops wrote as you wish to see it. Pride of place is not ā€œbestā€; they also threw in something about Palestrina and the like.

I seriously doubt that Gregorian chant as we know it today (and you can see threads from Ora Labora for more information on that issue) will be simply gone from Church usage. There is a conflict between having the community sing - which is part of active participation - and having choirs sing music from several hundred or more years ago. And that conflict may not have been seen during the council, or it may have been seen, which is why ā€œpride of placeā€ gets used.

To make a not particularly outstanding analogy: When we had company for dinner at my parents house, the best china came out. We did not have company all the time, and we never used the best china except then. The parallel is not totally devoid of meaning; it may be that Gregorian chant will be used in a few places in many or most dioceses; and for those who want a steady diet of it, most likely that will not be forthcoming.

I have enough Gregorian chant in my background that I have no problem with a schola singing it. Been there, done that, got the record we cut… but I absolutely cannot abide Palestrina or anything close to that at Mass. I go to worship, not to listen to a concert. Just my opinion. It makes others’ socks roll up and down, and I will grant them their experience. And my share too.

And to those who are in a schola (Ora, this one’s for you…) :tiphat:
 
Yes, it is used.
My apologies, I was a little worked up 😊 this is something I’m very passionate about! It is indeed used-- but, as others have said, quite minimally. Certainly not in the extent that is asked for, but used nonetheless.

In regards to things being equal, I’d venture to say things are more than equal! With the Internet, people have easy access to free sheet music, tutorials, recordings, and cathecesis on the importance of chant. We have the option at our fingertips. Obviously this is not the case everywhere: one wouldn’t envision, and certainly the Council didn’t envision, Gregorian Chant holding pride of place in a mission in Africa. Situations like these are what the ā€œthings being equalā€ clause are there for. But for those of us who are in such situations of things be equal, it should certainly be far more present than it is.

Congregational singing of chant, while difficult, is by no means impossible with a little practice. It’ll be rough at first: but when my parish started singing the Credo III in English, it took only 3 Sundays before people were comfortable. It’s quite attainable!
 
My apologies, I was a little worked up 😊 this is something I’m very passionate about! It is indeed used-- but, as others have said, quite minimally. Certainly not in the extent that is asked for, but used nonetheless.

In regards to things being equal, I’d venture to say things are more than equal! With the Internet, people have easy access to free sheet music, tutorials, recordings, and cathecesis on the importance of chant. We have the option at our fingertips. Obviously this is not the case everywhere: one wouldn’t envision, and certainly the Council didn’t envision, Gregorian Chant holding pride of place in a mission in Africa. Situations like these are what the ā€œthings being equalā€ clause are there for. But for those of us who are in such situations of things be equal, it should certainly be far more present than it is.

Congregational singing of chant, while difficult, is by no means impossible with a little practice. It’ll be rough at first: but when my parish started singing the Credo III in English, it took only 3 Sundays before people were comfortable. It’s quite attainable!
Our friends at CMAA have shown us that it is possible to do chant well in a parish setting. I’ve seen it done a few times. I just hope it continues to spread via the colloquiums, chant workshops, etc. so that more Catholics can access the liturgical treasures of the Roman rite.
 
Our friends at CMAA have shown us that it is possible to do chant well in a parish setting. I’ve seen it done a few times. I just hope it continues to spread via the colloquiums, chant workshops, etc. so that more Catholics can access the liturgical treasures of the Roman rite.
I don’t know how Ora feels about this - he is in a schola, and I was in one in the mid '60s in the seminary - but if you want Greogorain chant, it needs to be sun by a trained choir.

Operative words:

Trained.

Choir.

There is no such thin as a community or laity singing Gregorian chant; they might as well mumble it.

To those who were not born at least 15 to 20 years before Vatican 2 - I never ever heard Gregorian chant sung by the laity; it was always sung by a choir - and when in grade school, we had a children’s choir which sang it. For absolutely sure, the congregation never joined in.

And if you want to hear an absolutely crack children’s choir, check out the one at the cathedral in Salt Lake…

With the EF (as in, in the 1950’s and early 1960’s), we had then what we simply called High Mass, and Solemn High Mass. The High Mass had a choir, and the Solemn High Mass was not said every rainy Tuesday (once or twice a year at the most). There was one High Mass on Sunday (7, 8:15; 9:30, 10:45 and 12, and the 10:45 was the High Mass). And we most certainly did not have Gregorian chant most of the time, nor even the majority.

And I am still inclined to believe that properly sung, Gregorian chant needs to be in a church which has (excuse me - I am not a musician) ā€œhang timeā€. Listen to the monks of the Abbey of Solesmes or of Santo Domingo de Silos.

But that is just me.
 
I don’t know how Ora feels about this - he is in a schola, and I was in one in the mid '60s in the seminary - but if you want Greogorain chant, it needs to be sun by a trained choir

Operative words:

Trained

Choir

There is no such thin as a community or laity singing Gregorian chant; they might as well mumble it

To those who were not born at least 15 to 20 years before Vatican 2 - I never ever heard Gregorian chant sung by the laity; it was always sung by a choir - and when in grade school, we had a children’s choir which sang it. For absolutely sure, the congregation never joined in

And if you want to hear an absolutely crack children’s choir, check out the one at the cathedral in Salt Lake

With the EF (as in, in the 1950’s and early 1960’s), we had then what we simply called High Mass, and Solemn High Mass. The High Mass had a choir, and the Solemn High Mass was not said every rainy Tuesday (once or twice a year at the most). There was one High Mass on Sunday (7, 8:15; 9:30, 10:45 and 12, and the 10:45 was the High Mass). And we most certainly did not have Gregorian chant most of the time, nor even the majority

And I am still inclined to believe that properly sung, Gregorian chant needs to be in a church which has (excuse me - I am not a musician) ā€œhang timeā€. Listen to the monks of the Abbey of Solesmes or of Santo Domingo de Silos

But that is just me
I would say that you say it all very well

I, too, remember delightfully well the organist and choir of my youth. They’re all dead now, of course, but the music they did was splendid…chant, polyphony, et al.

And I must say I remember the choir practices required for them to execute these pieces. They were well rehearsed and even then there was the occasional glitch

And the talent that it required. Relatively few who auditioned were selected…most didn’t have the requisite latent talent, or at least with the constraints and limits of practices and training that the circumstances could coax. I was not adequate, who would go on to become a priest

Like your parish, they sang at the one weekly High Mass, which was attended by those who wanted it. The other Masses were well attended by the people who didn’t want that

The parish was blessed with resources beyond what most parishes in the diocese could do, frankly, to sustain that level of programme. I was never fortunate enough to have an assignment that provided me with that level of resource. And it is much harder today than it was in my youth to have and sustain that level of talent and that level of commitment…at least in my realm

I am in wonderment at people who say how easy it is to achieve a music ministry, as this one and that one will propose. I never found it easy. I found it one of the most challenging aspects of those years I was assigned to parish ministry. Oh yes, everyone could tell me what they liked and what they wanted but became very scarce, thank you very much, when it was a matter of their own involvement and commitment of time, talent OR treasure

I actually am one who believes the directive of the Council Fathers has been well achieved. Chant does have pride of place. I see it in the cathedral choirs. I see it in the monasteries. I especially congratulate the Congregation of Solesmes for its work on chant. For the Church is not exhausted by parishes…indeed it rather finds its more sublime expressions in places other than parishes

My life and priesthood have taken me to those institutions where this aspect of SC has been achieved, where the resources are present together with the talent and everything else that has to come together to achieve it. Life and priesthood also took me to serve in places where other aspects of the Council’s liturgical renewal blossomed and found fruition

And to places that could not begin to have the resources to do a fraction of what one might aspire to…but where the faith of the people could be more inspiring than the most splendid of cathedral or abbatial churches…even as we made do with the cheapest and simplest of vestments, altar furnishings, and sacred vessels and whose musical instruments were brought from the homes of the parishioners who owned them

We need also remember Sacrosanctum Concilium said
114. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30
It’s no less true that Mass at its most excellent is manifest when the Bishop presides at the Mass in his own cathedral church, with his presbyterate surrounding him. Of course, that fully happens at the Chrism Mass and at the Masses of Ordination

Surely, too, the Bishop is offering Mass throughout the diocese on weekdays as well as weekends…and yet only the smallest fraction of the diocese is ever at any of these Masses…the vast majority are at Masses celebrated not in the cathedral and not by the Bishop

Because the reality of what is the most excellent manifestation of the Mass cannot be realistically experienced by most people in the diocese ever. Even when a new Bishop is ordained or enthroned, even then most of the diocese is not present for a once in a generation experience let alone for occasions like the Chrism Mass or Ordination Masses

As a priest, a liturgist, and a theologian…I think anyone who doesn’t have the frequent experience of Mass with their Bishop is impoverished. The reality is: I know many people who have not attended Mass with the Bishop in uncounted years and yet they get on with their life in the Church quite happily well
 
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