What is this kind of chanting?

[OraLabora]

I don’t know how Ora feels about this - he is in a schola, and I was in one in the mid '60s in the seminary - but if you want Greogorain chant, it needs to be sun by a trained choir.

Operative words:

Trained.

Choir.

There is no such thin as a community or laity singing Gregorian chant; they might as well mumble it.

To those who were not born at least 15 to 20 years before Vatican 2 - I never ever heard Gregorian chant sung by the laity; it was always sung by a choir - and when in grade school, we had a children’s choir which sang it. For absolutely sure, the congregation never joined in.

And if you want to hear an absolutely crack children’s choir, check out the one at the cathedral in Salt Lake…

With the EF (as in, in the 1950’s and early 1960’s), we had then what we simply called High Mass, and Solemn High Mass. The High Mass had a choir, and the Solemn High Mass was not said every rainy Tuesday (once or twice a year at the most). There was one High Mass on Sunday (7, 8:15; 9:30, 10:45 and 12, and the 10:45 was the High Mass). And we most certainly did not have Gregorian chant most of the time, nor even the majority.

And I am still inclined to believe that properly sung, Gregorian chant needs to be in a church which has (excuse me - I am not a musician) “hang time”. Listen to the monks of the Abbey of Solesmes or of Santo Domingo de Silos.

But that is just me.

On vacation with spotty Internet, but yes you are right, chant is always done by a trained choir or schola. We can sometimes get the faithful in the nave to chant the ordinary provided we stick to one of the simple and well-known settings. That practically-speaking means Kyrie XVI or at most XI, Gloria VIII (ugh, not even Gregorian chant and overdone), Credo III, and Agnus/Sanctus XVIII. The propers…simply ain’t gonna happen, especially Graduals and Offertories.

And it never did. In monasteries, choir monks and the schola did the heavy lifting, with the schola taking the hardest part such as the verse of the Gradual. The lay brothers probably weren’t even at the conventual Mass except on Sundays or high feasts, but were in the fields or at work, having attended an early low Mass. Now the distinction between choir and lay brothers no longer exists, but it is normal for less-abled monks to refrain from singing. In parishes, as Fr Ruggero notes, it had to be in the hands of a trained choir.

Even in the pre-Vatican II days there were popular vernacular hymns instead of the introit (which technically is before Mass actually starts), at non-sung Masses. It’s wrong to think that every Mass then was in full-blown Gregorian chant. That was not the case.

Since the Council, the Vatican has published the Graduale Simplex with simpler antiphons in the style of the Divine Office, and the simpler settings of the ordinary for choirs of smaller churches without the resources or training for the standard Graduale Romanum. Note though, the intent is still that choirs do the singing.

In my view, “pride of place” does not mean every parish every Sunday, but rather in the high places of Catholic worship, such as the Vatican, basilicas, monasteries, large cathedrals with chapters of canons and the like, which is pretty much the case now. Sometimes in parishes, however our small schola of about 15 men simply do not have the time and resources needed to learn and chant the entire Graduale Romanum, which is necessary if you are going to chant every Sunday. So we do Mass once a month, special occasions such as funerals and weddings or parish anniversaries, and solemn Vespers during Advent and Lent. Even for that Monthly Mass or occasional event, we must dedicate 2-3 times a month out of our schedules to show up at rehearsals, and spend countless hours practicing at home with the help of CDs ou YouTube. I’m retired and my children grown and out of the house but several of our choristers have jobs, professions and families to consider.

 

[drforjc]

On vacation with spotty Internet, but yes you are right, chant is always done by a trained choir or schola. We can sometimes get the faithful in the nave to chant the ordinary provided we stick to one of the simple and well-known settings. That practically-speaking means Kyrie XVI or at most XI, Gloria VIII (ugh, not even Gregorian chant and overdone), Credo III, and Agnus/Sanctus XVIII. The propers…simply ain’t gonna happen, especially Graduals and Offertories.

And it never did. In monasteries, choir monks and the schola did the heavy lifting, with the schola taking the hardest part such as the verse of the Gradual. The lay brothers probably weren’t even at the conventual Mass except on Sundays or high feasts, but were in the fields or at work, having attended an early low Mass. Now the distinction between choir and lay brothers no longer exists, but it is normal for less-abled monks to refrain from singing. In parishes, as Fr Ruggero notes, it had to be in the hands of a trained choir.

Even in the pre-Vatican II days there were popular vernacular hymns instead of the introit (which technically is before Mass actually starts), at non-sung Masses. It’s wrong to think that every Mass then was in full-blown Gregorian chant. That was not the case.

Since the Council, the Vatican has published the Graduale Simplex with simpler antiphons in the style of the Divine Office, and the simpler settings of the ordinary for choirs of smaller churches without the resources or training for the standard Graduale Romanum. Note though, the intent is still that choirs do the singing.

In my view, “pride of place” does not mean every parish every Sunday, but rather in the high places of Catholic worship, such as the Vatican, basilicas, monasteries, large cathedrals with chapters of canons and the like, which is pretty much the case now. Sometimes in parishes, however our small schola of about 15 men simply do not have the time and resources needed to learn and chant the entire Graduale Romanum, which is necessary if you are going to chant every Sunday. So we do Mass once a month, special occasions such as funerals and weddings or parish anniversaries, and solemn Vespers during Advent and Lent. Even for that Monthly Mass or occasional event, we must dedicate 2-3 times a month out of our schedules to show up at rehearsals, and spend countless hours practicing at home with the help of CDs ou YouTube. I’m retired and my children grown and out of the house but several of our choristers have jobs, professions and families to consider.

However, chant, either Gregorian or of a simpler but still recognizeable as chant variety, can sometimes be used in a parish setting. Indeed, not all chant all the time, but as I noted, I have seen it done fairly well.
Something like the Simple English Propers is also doable by a congregation (I’ve seen it done), and even though it is not actual Gregorian chant, it is certainly in the “feel” of chant and reminds us that the musical tradition of the Roman Rite did not begin in the early 1970’s with the St. Louis Jesuits.