What is this Worm?

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Nelka

New member
Isaiah 66:24 And on their way out they will see the corpses of those who rebelled against me; for their worm will never die nor their fire be put out, and they will be held in horror by all humanity.

Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye should be your downfall, tear it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell where their worm will never die nor their fire be put out.

What worm?
 
Nelka said:
Isaiah 66:24 And on their way out they will see the corpses of those who rebelled against me; for their worm will never die nor their fire be put out, and they will be held in horror by all humanity.

Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye should be your downfall, tear it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell where their worm will never die nor their fire be put out.

What worm?
Click to expand...
Think something like ‘maggot’.
 
I take it to mean something that will always “eat” away at you. Always bother you. Never at peace. Always hurting because of it. Never comfortable.
 
I think the previous two comments are probably correct.

Historically, the Bible passages may have referred to the Guinea Worm. It is a parasite which grows up to three feet long inside the human body. Thankfully its distribution around the world today is far less than in ancient times, due to safer drinking water.

However, that wasn’t true in ancient times. And the medical symbol of the Rod of Asclepius


is thought to refer to a common treatment for guinea worm which is still used today. When the adult worm migrates to the leg and burrows through the skin so it can release its offspring, the treatment involves wrapping the visible portion of the worm around a stick. Then, over the course of days, the stick is slowly turned to draw the worm all the way out of the body. This has to be done slowly so that the worm does not break in half and die within the body.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis
 
Dale_M said:
…And the medical symbol of the Rod of Asclepius is thought to refer to a common treatment for guinea worm which is still used today. When the adult worm migrates to the leg and burrows through the skin so it can release its offspring, the treatment involves wrapping the visible portion of the worm around a stick. Then, over the course of days, the stick is slowly turned to draw the worm all the way out of the body. This has to be done slowly so that the worm does not break in half and die within the body.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis
Click to expand...
Thanks for the visual–NOT! :eek:
 
They thought worms caused toothaches. Everyone has a toothache basically.
 
Yes, but, the passage says, “corpses” whose worm doesn’t die, and whose fire is not put out. Corpses are not the same as dead people in Hell - a corpse doesn’t know anything, and can’t feel remorse of conscience or anything else.
 
CynthiaGee said:
Yes, but, the passage says, “corpses” whose worm doesn’t die, and whose fire is not put out. Corpses are not the same as dead people in Hell - a corpse doesn’t know anything, and can’t feel remorse of conscience or anything else.
Click to expand...
Where the worm dieth not. Forget about getting rid of toothaches forever. What is hell translated from here? Gahenna? That was a local trash dump in the area. Sheoul is what you need to read about. It was translated as “hell” too. People have spoke in other texts about the toothaches they have and complain about “the worm”.

B
 
billcu1 said:
Where the worm dieth not. Forget about getting rid of toothaches forever. What is hell translated from here? Gahenna? That was a local trash dump in the area. Sheoul is what you need to read about. It was translated as “hell” too. People have spoke in other texts about the toothaches they have and complain about “the worm”.

B
Click to expand...
Gehenna comes from the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom ‘Valley of Hinnom’, originally denoting one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City of Jerusalem. The “Valley of (the son/s of) Hinnom,” (cf. 2 Chronicles 28:3, 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2-6; Nehemiah 11:30) as it was called in the OT, is infamous because it is the location where Israelites performed worship of other deities like Moloch. Apparently the place had a rather nasty reputation that later ages applied the name to the place where the wicked are punished as a metonym. (The gospels apparently being the first literary evidence to this.) Note however that we have no contemporary source for the common idea that there was a rubbish heap at the Hinnom Valley (an idea which was first proposed by the medieval French rabbi David Kimhi), although there is evidence that the southwest shoulder of this valley (the Ketef Hinnom) was a burial location with numerous burial chambers that were reused by generations of families from as early as the 7th until the 7th century BC, continuing up to the 1st centuries BC and AD.
 
patrick457 said:
Gehenna comes from the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom ‘Valley of Hinnom’, originally denoting one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City of Jerusalem. The “Valley of (the son/s of) Hinnom,” (cf. 2 Chronicles 28:3, 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2-6; Nehemiah 11:30) as it was called in the OT, is infamous because it is the location where Israelites performed worship of other deities like Moloch. Apparently the place had a rather nasty reputation that later ages applied the name to the place where the wicked are punished as a metonym. (The gospels apparently being the first literary evidence to this.) Note however that we have no contemporary source for the common idea that there was a rubbish heap at the Hinnom Valley (an idea which was first proposed by the medieval French rabbi David Kimhi), although there is evidence that the southwest shoulder of this valley (the Ketef Hinnom) was a burial location with numerous burial chambers that were reused by generations of families from as early as the 7th until the 7th century BC, continuing up to the 1st centuries BC and AD.
Click to expand...
With dieties like Moloch. It’s had to tell what the name of the original god of the jews was. They wondered around in captivity so much but whoever got some power set up Moloch. Abraham was a Chaldee. I’m not familiar with their beliefs and mythologies but the Sumerians I am. I think El made it into babylonian.

Bill
 
billcu1 said:
With dieties like Moloch. It’s had to tell what the name of the original god of the jews was. They wondered around in captivity so much but whoever got some power set up Moloch. Abraham was a Chaldee. I’m not familiar with their beliefs and mythologies but the Sumerians I am. I think El made it into babylonian.

Bill
Click to expand...
…Um, what? :confused:
 
patrick457 said:
…Um, what? :confused:
Click to expand...
Hum this is kind of away from the OP’s question. How do I explain. Thanks much for you correction on Gahenna. I always heard it was a trash dump but what you said makes much more sense. Can you exaplin a little more what your confused about if you can? Or does the whole thing not make sense. I am a scholar of many things including zohar of judaism in addition to the faith I have chosen above all, catholicism.

Bill
 
billcu1 said:
Hum this is kind of away from the OP’s question. How do I explain. Thanks much for you correction on Gahenna. I always heard it was a trash dump but what you said makes much more sense. Can you exaplin a little more what your confused about if you can? Or does the whole thing not make sense. I am a scholar of many things including zohar of judaism in addition to the faith I have chosen above all, catholicism.

Bill
Click to expand...
No, I was just slightly confused by your statement there. I was just wondering if you could rephrase that a bit. I’m a thick, lowly ignoramus so I apologize for the confusion. 😊
 
patrick457 said:
No, I was just slightly confused by your statement there. I was just wondering if you could rephrase that a bit. I’m a thick, lowly ignoramus so I apologize for the confusion. 😊
Click to expand...
Abraham was not a monotheist. He believed in a head god and subservient gods. But that was along time ago and things have obviously changed. The cannite god Sedek may have been what he followed. Mal-chiz-a-dek. “My king is sedek” That’s the scholars point of view. How much actual proof there is to this is another question. Some things can be lost to antiquity.

B
 
billcu1 said:
Abraham was not a monotheist. He believed in a head god and subservient gods. But that was along time ago and things have obviously changed. The cannite god Sedek may have been what he followed. Mal-chiz-a-dek. “My king is sedek” That’s the scholars point of view. How much actual proof there is to this is another question. Some things can be lost to antiquity.

B
Click to expand...
For one, are there any records of a Canaanite god named sedeq?

As for scholars’ point of view, the majority view is that Melchizedek simply means “king of righteousness.”
 
billcu1 said:
Abraham was not a monotheist. He believed in a head god and subservient gods. But that was along time ago and things have obviously changed. The cannite god Sedek may have been what he followed. Mal-chiz-a-dek. “My king is sedek” That’s the scholars point of view. How much actual proof there is to this is another question. Some things can be lost to antiquity.

B
Click to expand...
There is certainly that idea of Ṣéḏeq actually being an epithet of a certain divinity worshipped in pre-Israelite Jerusalem (I would hardly put it as “the scholars’ point of view,” as if there is a 100% agreement on this). We do have evidence for a god named Sydyk recorded by the Roman-era Phoenician writer Philo of Byblos (ca. 64-141), whose name is translated by him in Greek as dikaion “righteousness,” and who is paired with Misor, the two being credited as being the first to discover salt. It has also been thought by some that the Assyro-Babylonian deity Kittu “righteousness/justice” is related to Sydyk (the former was also referred to as Ṣidqu, and was also paired with a deity named Misharu “law”). The idea that goes that perhaps Jerusalem was originally a cultic center for a related deity named or titled Ṣéḏeq, perhaps the god El Elyon (’ēl ‘eləywōn) whom Melchizedek serves. The fact that the Jebusite king of Jerusalem in Joshua 10:1-3 is named Adonizedek (“my lord is ṣdq”) is telling for those who hold this view. Some would even argue that Zadok the priest’s name is a continuation of this tradition, thus holding him to be a priest of the pre-Israelite cult whom David chose to retain alongside Abiathar (who in this idea is the priest of the Yhwist cult) as a means to legitimize his reign amongst the native Canaanite populace. That being said, there are some problems with the ideas.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top