What is this?

[Randy_Carson]

I received the following from a friend of mine, and I’m not sure how to respond:

You and I will never agree on religion. I believe we are all parts of God and that God is all that is and all that is not. God is the source to which we all return when we leave the physical. I do not believe God is an entity who judges and condemns or rewards based on how “good” we are. I believe God is unconditional love and I do not believe we are “punished” by God. Yes, I believe Jesus is God just as I believe each one of us is as well. I do not believe we are “sinning children” whom God watches and disciplines for not following the “rules”.

Is this Pantheism? Panentheism?

Since I spend most of my time in the Apologetics sub-forum talking about Catholicism with Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, I’m not really familiar with this line of thinking from someone who is clearly NOT Christian.

How would you address beliefs like this given that there is not much common ground to work with - not even the Bible?

 

[JeanMichel]

I received the following from a friend of mine, and I’m not sure how to respond:

You and I will never agree on religion. I believe we are all parts of God and that God is all that is and all that is not. God is the source to which we all return when we leave the physical. I do not believe God is an entity who judges and condemns or rewards based on how “good” we are. I believe God is unconditional love and I do not believe we are “punished” by God. Yes, I believe Jesus is God just as I believe each one of us is as well. I do not believe we are “sinning children” whom God watches and disciplines for not following the “rules”.

Is this Pantheism? Panentheism?

Since I spend most of my time in the Apologetics sub-forum talking about Catholicism with Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, I’m not really familiar with this line of thinking from someone who is clearly NOT Christian.

How would you address beliefs like this given that there is not much common ground to work with - not even the Bible?

Randy, this individual has merged Eastern religions with Christianity producing a melange of doctrines, yet has retained a belief in Jesus Christ. This is a very fortunate thing because Jesus had specific teachings that can be discussed.

It would be interesting what (s)he thinks of the Bible; is it the word of God or the product of mankind. If it is felt it is the product of mankind, I would ask if God ever speaks to his children and if those words were ever recorded.

They seem defensive so this is not a time to push. It is a time to ask questions without any judgment attached. It is all about understanding their position. Eventually, there will come a time to share your beliefs and the teachings of Jesus Christ. However, seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to know when to speak and when to be silent.

 

[sandthipe]

Randy, your friend is espousing Pantheism: “god is all, or everything is god”. As a starting point for discussion, I might ask my friend about the nature of suffering and pain.

If I and you are both a part of god, why do we suffer? Should we not be capable of making ourselves healthy and happy?

Also, why the disparity between people like Ghandi and Josef Stalin? If both are part of god, how would we explain the incompatible differences between the love of one and the evil of the other?

If God doesn’t punish us, as your friend claims, how would he explain an act of murder? One part of god killing another part of god? This last question might help point out a logical inconsistency in his views (but I wouldn’t label it as such, since people don’t like being told this).

-Chris

 

[nablaise]

I would approch this person with almost similar presentation as I did for this atheist person.

The Challenge is to illustrate how God is different and ‘separate’ from us by the fact that we are his Creatures and Him our Creator. And continuing with a clear definition of God which clarify the definition of us and more about our relationship with him. I think it is this natural link with him which causes people to see both us and God as one, and they are right. We are one with God because of our sins, we are wounded by our sustained attempts to separate from him.

God bless

 

[Dokimas]

I received the following from a friend of mine, and I’m not sure how to respond:

You and I will never agree on religion. I believe we are all parts of God and that God is all that is and all that is not. God is the source to which we all return when we leave the physical. I do not believe God is an entity who judges and condemns or rewards based on how “good” we are. I believe God is unconditional love and I do not believe we are “punished” by God. Yes, I believe Jesus is God just as I believe each one of us is as well. I do not believe we are “sinning children” whom God watches and disciplines for not following the “rules”.

Is this Pantheism? Panentheism?

Since I spend most of my time in the Apologetics sub-forum talking about Catholicism with Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, I’m not really familiar with this line of thinking from someone who is clearly NOT Christian.

How would you address beliefs like this given that there is not much common ground to work with - not even the Bible?

If we all make up God and God is all of us, that makes God evil and it’s author. If this person’s correct, lets do away with all laws because there’s no basis for laws because laws limit God expressing ITSELF. God expressing ITSELF in lieing, in murder, in rape, etc.

Beliefs have consequences; beliefs have ultimite meanings.

 

[Incomplete]

I would also question his perception of God always watching and punishing because we don’t follow “the rules”. I understand where people get the idea that we preach about God being like this, but it really isn’t an accurate picture.

 

[Waiting]

I think this is just wishful thinking – the thinking of an immature, uninformed mind. It would help to know more about this person, such as age, education, employment, etc. Otherwise, it’s difficult to advise how to begin to influence a change in his attitude.

 

[Sufjon]

I received the following from a friend of mine, and I’m not sure how to respond:

You and I will never agree on religion. I believe we are all parts of God and that God is all that is and all that is not. God is the source to which we all return when we leave the physical. I do not believe God is an entity who judges and condemns or rewards based on how “good” we are. I believe God is unconditional love and I do not believe we are “punished” by God. Yes, I believe Jesus is God just as I believe each one of us is as well. I do not believe we are “sinning children” whom God watches and disciplines for not following the “rules”.

Is this Pantheism? Panentheism?

Since I spend most of my time in the Apologetics sub-forum talking about Catholicism with Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, I’m not really familiar with this line of thinking from someone who is clearly NOT Christian.

How would you address beliefs like this given that there is not much common ground to work with - not even the Bible?

Hi Randy: In your response you would simply have to explain to your friend in clear terms how it is that you are separate from God and separate from everyone else. Point him or her to some scriptural passages that outline the inherent separateness between God, his creatures, and the separateness of his creatures from one another. I am confused though that you said the Bible isn’t common ground. The truths in it should provide common ground, or at least I think that would be the case. What bible does your friend use?

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[GaryTaylor]

Jesus Christ walked this earth, and is well aware of mans state of sin.

God lives within us all. He;s not at some point far away. Though sin may appear this to be so.

As we struggle for communion with God, He also desires, this,

We make this daily struggle our understanding, And ultimate goal. And as we come closr, He comes closer ot “us”.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

I was thinking along the lines of many of the others. Jesus is only recorded in two sacred scriptures, the Bible and the Koran. In one, He is Messiah, and in the other, a prophet. Neither Christianity nor Islam is pantheistic, though. Christianity and Judaism share the idea of a Messiah. If the other person accepts the idea of a Messiah, then the whole Old Testament is common ground. Islam connects with the New Testament, too. This person sounds like trying to meld Christianity and New Age beliefs.

As much as I have enjoyed jousting with you on matters theological, I think that approaching this person with the experience of the community of believers may be more profitable. New Agers are suckers for scents and bells. Think of incense as aromatherapy.

 

[Curious_Seed]

I received the following from a friend of mine, and I’m not sure how to respond:

You and I will never agree on religion. I believe we are all parts of God and that God is all that is and all that is not. God is the source to which we all return when we leave the physical. I do not believe God is an entity who judges and condemns or rewards based on how “good” we are. I believe God is unconditional love and I do not believe we are “punished” by God. Yes, I believe Jesus is God just as I believe each one of us is as well. I do not believe we are “sinning children” whom God watches and disciplines for not following the “rules”.

Is this Pantheism? Panentheism?

Since I spend most of my time in the Apologetics sub-forum talking about Catholicism with Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, I’m not really familiar with this line of thinking from someone who is clearly NOT Christian.

How would you address beliefs like this given that there is not much common ground to work with - not even the Bible?

The key here is that the individual believes he/she has a proper understanding of Christianity.

Many of us are on a learning curve where our current understanding contains errors.

If the individual is game, start parsing each thought to uncover the legs upon which it stands.

Parsing utilizes the 5Ws as tools to whittle away successive layers of belief, until no further parsing is available.

Like most understandings, there is an unparsed source that supports each view.

The unparsed source for Christianity is Jesus.

 

[rinnie]

I received the following from a friend of mine, and I’m not sure how to respond:

You and I will never agree on religion. I believe we are all parts of God and that God is all that is and all that is not. God is the source to which we all return when we leave the physical. I do not believe God is an entity who judges and condemns or rewards based on how “good” we are. I believe God is unconditional love and I do not believe we are “punished” by God. Yes, I believe Jesus is God just as I believe each one of us is as well. I do not believe we are “sinning children” whom God watches and disciplines for not following the “rules”.

Is this Pantheism? Panentheism?

Since I spend most of my time in the Apologetics sub-forum talking about Catholicism with Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, I’m not really familiar with this line of thinking from someone who is clearly NOT Christian.

How would you address beliefs like this given that there is not much common ground to work with - not even the Bible?

Wow you got your hands full. I guess I would respond by agreeing with that person, Simply we will never agree on Religion.

You could go on to tell the Person that they need to study History. Then when they do that they can see how we go by the teachings of the Early Fathers of the Church etc.

Then I would for sure comment on the discipline theory that they have. I would ask them what kind of Father does NOT discipline their children. And if the Child is not disciplined what kind of person does it grow up to be.

Then I would explain how all Good Father’s discipline their Children because discipline is a form of Love not really punishment. When a person is punished it means that did something wrong and when God disciplines it always fair, out of Love, and is for reasons of giving us understanding.

And I would just say that much of what he is saying goes against the teaching’s of God. Good Luck!