What is Traditional Catholicism?

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There is a section here on CAF on Traditional Catholicism. How does Traditional Catholicism differ from Roman Catholicism or from Catholicism? Is it a separate religion or is it the same religion as Catholicism?
 
It’s traditional, the way our grandparents and great grandparents did things. 🙂
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sidbrown said:
Is it the same religion as Catholicism today?
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Yes. 🙂 And a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic. Either you’re Catholic or you’re not Catholic. But in recent years much has been stripped off of the Faith, some other things have been obscured. But still only one holy Catholic apostolic Church. Only one.
 
Although I don’t think it is a requirement to attend an EF Mass (traditional Latin Mass or TLM) to be traditional (for many it may not be available or is hard to get to etc.) I think many that see themselves as traditional do gravitate to it for several reasons. I think these reasons in themselves describe some of the values that make up a traditional approach to the Catholic faith:
  • There seems to be a greater amount of reverence at the TLM
  • The TLM puts God on a higher level, whereas in modern life we seem to bring God down to our level or elevate ourselves to his level, I feel that the OF Mass in its attempt to be more relevant to modern thought has done this also.
  • The TLM emphasizes the Mass as a Holy Sacrifice, that in assisting at Mass we are being brought into Jesus’ presence at the foot of the cross, that His sacrifice is being made present to us as well as his body and blood in the Holy Eucharist. This sacrificial nature has been downplayed or removed in the OF Mass.
  • The use of traditional music such as Gregorian chant in the TLM enhances the reverence and beauty causing the Mass to be a foretaste of the heavenly banquet promised to us.
I think also traditional Catholics tend to follow other devotions that have fallen out of use in many parishes such as the Rosary, daily Mass attendance, frequent confession, wearing of the scapular, and so on.
 
sidbrown said:
Is it the same religion as Catholicism today?
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Catholicism has not changed. Rubrics may change but the intent and form remain the same. If the intent or form change then it is no longer Christian. Let us pray that no Catholic Church fall victim to the so called “Liberal Catholic” that many Heterdox use to describe themselves.

Traditional is used often with Orthodox. But be sure that is can also be used negatively by Heterdox Catholics that wish to teach lies and non Christian things such as female priests. But when one changes the Form they change everything… In this example the Form requires a priest be a man and so a woman can never be a Priest in the True sense of the word. Just an example…
 
jonpd said:
Although I don’t think it is a requirement to attend an EF Mass (traditional Latin Mass or TLM) to be traditional (for many it may not be available or is hard to get to etc.) I think many that see themselves as traditional do gravitate to it for several reasons. I think these reasons in themselves describe some of the values that make up a traditional approach to the Catholic faith:
  • There seems to be a greater amount of reverence at the TLM
  • The TLM puts God on a higher level, whereas in modern life we seem to bring God down to our level or elevate ourselves to his level, I feel that the OF Mass in its attempt to be more relevant to modern thought has done this also.
  • The TLM emphasizes the Mass as a Holy Sacrifice, that in assisting at Mass we are being brought into Jesus’ presence at the foot of the cross, that His sacrifice is being made present to us as well as his body and blood in the Holy Eucharist. This sacrificial nature has been downplayed or removed in the OF Mass.
  • The use of traditional music such as Gregorian chant in the TLM enhances the reverence and beauty causing the Mass to be a foretaste of the heavenly banquet promised to us.
I think also traditional Catholics tend to follow other devotions that have fallen out of use in many parishes such as the Rosary, daily Mass attendance, frequent confession, wearing of the scapular, and so on.
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Do Traditional Catholics and regular Catholics believe exactly the same thing, or is it two different religions?
 
sidbrown said:
Do Traditional Catholics and regular Catholics believe exactly the same thing, or is it two different religions?
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Yes, they follow the magisterium and are under the pope as any other roman catholic. A traditional catholic is a roman catholic.

We just are the more reverent ones you see at Mass, the ones who would generally wear head coverings(if you’re female ;)), go to daily Mass, say the rosary daily, join in processions, go to confession often, etc. We like to hold God to the highest reverence, which means not putting people first in Mass, but God.

We don’t like the irreverent kumbaya “let’s hold hands” practices of liberal cafeteria catholics.
 
sidbrown said:
It says that they have a different attitude to extrinsic or ecclesiastical tradition. But it seems like it is something more than what the article is reporting. Do Traditonal Catholics accept the Vatican II Council as binding and mandatory for all Catholics?
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For a full treatment of the subject read “The Great Facade” by Ferrara and Woods. There is one Catholic Church though in many places it is disguised behind an unofficial regime of novelty.
 
DihydrogenOxide said:
We don’t like the irreverent kumbaya “let’s hold hands” practices of liberal cafeteria catholics.
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This is what I dislike about non-Traditional Catholic parishes. People playing loud distorted electric guitars makes it sound like I’m at a rock concert instead of a church. I’m just not into all the singing that we have.

How is the religious education in Traditional Catholic parishes? Do you guys learn Latin in your CCD programs?

I went to a non-Traditional parish and the CCD program there was horrible. Most of the kids there didn’t care about theology at all (I should add that they were really rude too) and the program failed to educate us about Catholicism.

We did do community service and it’s nice to be involved in good actions but the fact remains that I was still pretty ignorant about my faith after I was confirmed. They also used liberal methods of trying to teach us things and that’s something I disliked too and it made me feel uncomfortable. A lot of times they would invite guests that talked about things completely unrelated to Catholicism. One time they brought in a guy who talked to us about online crimes and sexual predators. That’s something that should be taught in school, not in CCD where I want to learn about Christianity. They brought in so many musicians who would sing to us and tell us very basic moral concepts that we already knew. It was a joke and a waste of time.

One of the important things they failed to explain to us was the Trinity. I guarantee you that if I talked to any of those people that I went to CCD with, they wouldn’t be able to explain to me the Triune concept of Catholicism.

The final exam before confirmation was an insult to human intelligence. It was extremely basic stuff like how to locate a verse in the Bible. You didn’t even need to go to the CCD program to be able to pass that exam. The funny thing is that I don’t even recall them ever teaching those basic stuff.

I’m learning about my Christian faith on my own because that’s something that my CCD program didn’t teach me. I’ve been studying Biblical Hebrew on my own. Do they teach that at Traditional Catholic parishes?
 
sidbrown said:
It says that they have a different attitude to extrinsic or ecclesiastical tradition. But it seems like it is something more than what the article is reporting. Do Traditonal Catholics accept the Vatican II Council as binding and mandatory for all Catholics?
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The problem that has caused some to want to be identified as “traditional Catholics” is a perception that there are “non-traditional Catholics” who are perhaps ashamed of the Church’s history, skeptical of Church teaching, or disobedient to Church discipline. Traditional Catholics accept all of the Councils including Vatican II taking into consideration the purposes for which they were promulgated.

It is ecclesiastical suicide for Catholics to distance themselves from our Fathers anyway. If the Church was false or unholy during the Crusades or Inquisitions, it doesn’t become true and holy by saying “Oops. Sorry,” centuries later. Serious inquirers of the Catholic faith want to be able to embrace 2,000 years of truth and holiness, and traditionalists think that there is good reason for them to do so. We do not have to fear our history. We can be proud of our Fathers in the Faith and we maintain what they maintained.

Rory
 
Well you can put it in two definitions:
tradiontal Catholics, are ones who follow the Mass before Vatican 2. They attent the TLM and perform traditional customs.

Tradional Catholic can be someone who attends the OF or EF and follows the teachings of the Church, takes communion, has reverence, prays, and then some. This is the category I fall into and I consider myself traditionalist (even tough I attend the OF) because I follow teachings that are 2000 years old. :cool:
 
We don’t like the irreverent kumbaya “let’s hold hands” practices of liberal cafeteria catholics
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I agree, but it is something we have to lead by example so that people can start to catch on. Alot of people are comming back to the Church or are curious about it, we can’t expect them all to be at “our level”, it takes time.
 
Indeed, a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic. I am very traditionalist but I don’t think myself a part of some marginalized sect, but rather a part of the same one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church as my parents, grandparents, and ancestors back to the Conversion. Sectarianism only serves to divide the Church by siphoning away a portion of the people while leaving behind the rest and causing friction and chaos. Nothing good comes of sectarianism, and all Catholics must remain loyal to the pope and the Church if the truly magnificent rubrics and practices of old are to be restored.
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
The problem that has caused some to want to be identified as “traditional Catholics” is a perception that there are “non-traditional Catholics” who are perhaps ashamed of the Church’s history, skeptical of Church teaching, or disobedient to Church discipline. Traditional Catholics accept all of the Councils including Vatican II taking into consideration the purposes for which they were promulgated.

It is ecclesiastical suicide for Catholics to distance themselves from our Fathers anyway. If the Church was false or unholy during the Crusades or Inquisitions, it doesn’t become true and holy by saying “Oops. Sorry,” centuries later. Serious inquirers of the Catholic faith want to be able to embrace 2,000 years of truth and holiness, and traditionalists think that there is good reason for them to do so. We do not have to fear our history. We can be proud of our Fathers in the Faith and we maintain what they maintained.
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Well-said! Really, it’s hard to add anything else to this.
archangel04 said:
Well you can put it in two definitions:
tradiontal Catholics, are ones who follow the Mass before Vatican 2. They attent the TLM and perform traditional customs.

Tradional Catholic can be someone who attends the OF or EF and follows the teachings of the Church, takes communion, has reverence, prays, and then some. This is the category I fall into and I consider myself traditionalist (even tough I attend the OF) because I follow teachings that are 2000 years old. :cool:
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I agree, and I know I fall into the second category. Sadly, the EF isn’t offered locally where I live, so it’s incumbent on me to bring that same sense of reverence to the OF Masses I and my wife attend each week. If the most beautiful form of the Mass isn’t offered, then at least the same reverence can be brought into an OF Mass. I make an effort to always genuflect when I cross the Tabernacle, pray the Rosary before Mass if I have the time, kneel at all times when the Tabernacle is open, and otherwise keep alive those traditional practices that help to foster a deeper sense of reverence and love for the Lord. Until the EF is restored in every parish, it’s the least I can do.
archangel04 said:
I agree, but it is something we have to lead by example so that people can start to catch on. Alot of people are comming back to the Church or are curious about it, we can’t expect them all to be at “our level”, it takes time.
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So very true. My wife is new to Catholicism, so I try to be a good example to her, and help her to understand the traditions of the Church as opposed to the many novelties that have crept into practice since Vatican II. Thankfully, she’s a traditionally-minded woman who understands the value that all those old traditions had in building a truly reverent and Catholic society, but leading by example and helping others to understand is the least we can do.
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
. Traditional Catholics accept all of the Councils including Vatican II taking into consideration the purposes for which they were promulgated. /QUOTE|
So according to you, Traditonal Catholics accept all of the mandates of Vatican II and accept Vatican II completely and fully as a valid ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church? And Traditonal Catholics accept all of the changes mandated by Vatican II and accept all of the marriage annulments granted since Vatican II ?
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RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Traditional Catholics accept all of the Councils including Vatican II taking into consideration the purposes for which they were promulgated.
Click to expand...
So according to you, Traditonal Catholics accept all of the mandates of Vatican II and accept Vatican II completely and fully as a valid ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church? And Traditonal Catholics accept all of the changes mandated by Vatican II and accept all of the marriage annulments granted since Vatican II ?
 
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