What is truth?

  • Thread starter Thread starter teachccd
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

teachccd

Guest
I am a confirmation facilitator and our group had a pretty deep discussion on their understanding of truth. Pilate asked Jesus in John 18:38, “what is truth”? Many youths today believe that what is true for someone is their truth. Muslems have their truth and that’s o.k. since that is what truth is for them.

We are on the topic of morality and I wanted to establish the definition of absolute truth as opposed to moral relativism. We discussed faith and reason and how faith is not blind but evidential. It was the most intense discussion thus far.

So now I pose to you: What is truth?
 
Mortimer Adler said that everyone knows what truth is because each one of us has been lied to…
 
God is the Truth and Jesus is the Truth Incarnate. No man can say, “The truth is not evident!” nor “The truth is not in the flesh!” for every good thing reflects the Truth and the Truth took on the form of a slave.

Scroll down to the bottom of this page to find references to “truth” in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/index/t.htm
 
teachccd said:
I am a confirmation facilitator and our group had a pretty deep discussion on their understanding of truth. Pilate asked Jesus in John 18:38, “what is truth”? Many youths today believe that what is true for someone is their truth. Muslems have their truth and that’s o.k. since that is what truth is for them.

We are on the topic of morality and I wanted to establish the definition of absolute truth as opposed to moral relativism. We discussed faith and reason and how faith is not blind but evidential. It was the most intense discussion thus far.

So now I pose to you: What is truth?
Click to expand...
That depends on the context. In particular, there are true statements and true ideas. True statements can be framed in formal or informal language.

A statement in a formal language is true if (note: not iff) it can be proved using formal axioms in a particular logical system which is framed in the same language as the statement in question. In other words, it must correspond to a particular truth value in that system.

Statements in natural language are true if they have a similar relationship to a truth valuation system framed in the same language.

True ideas are much more tricky to define. There are a number of so-called “theories” of truth in philosophy, each with its own merits and problems. You can find them overviewed on wikipedia.
 
hatsoff said:
That depends on the context. In particular, there are true statements and true ideas. True statements can be framed in formal or informal language.

A statement in a formal language is true if (note: not iff) it can be proved using formal axioms in a particular logical system which is framed in the same language as the statement in question. In other words, it must correspond to a particular truth value in that system.

Statements in natural language are true if they have a similar relationship to a truth valuation system framed in the same language.

True ideas are much more tricky to define. There are a number of so-called “theories” of truth in philosophy, each with its own merits and problems. You can find them overviewed on wikipedia.
Click to expand...
Isn’t this leaning again against the wall of relativism rather than an absolute truth?
 
teachccd said:
Isn’t this leaning again against the wall of relativism rather than an absolute truth?
Click to expand...
Well, truth is a relationship. However, I’m not sure if that’s all you mean when you speak of “relativism.” I certainly have no idea of what you mean by “absolute” truth.
 
Eucharisted said:
God is the Truth and Jesus is the Truth Incarnate. No man can say, “The truth is not evident!” nor “The truth is not in the flesh!” for every good thing reflects the Truth and the Truth took on the form of a slave.

Scroll down to the bottom of this page to find references to “truth” in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/index/t.htm
Click to expand...
Please be reminded that my question probes the thoughts of those here and recognizes the teachings of the CCC. So I am looking forward to the diverse understandings of the truth. God bless…teachccd 🙂
 
hatsoff said:
Well, truth is a relationship. However, I’m not sure if that’s all you mean when you speak of “relativism.” I certainly have no idea of what you mean by “absolute” truth.
Click to expand...
2+2=4. Is that not absolute truth?
 
hatsoff said:
I do not know what you mean by “absolute truth.” You might as well be asking me if “2+2=4” is a Jabberwock.
Click to expand...
How so? Can 2+2 ever =5? If I said that you are reading this right now would that not be absolute truth?
 
hatsoff said:
I do not know what you mean by “absolute truth.” You might as well be asking me if “2+2=4” is a Jabberwock.
Click to expand...
So basically then, every statement that you make is jabberwock. So then how do I benefit listening to you and any relational statements that you have to offer? If it is only truth to you then why express it to me?

Please be reiminded that this is for conversation only as I do not mean to sound uncharitable. It is just my thoughts and not anything against you.
 
teachccd said:
2+2=4. Is that not absolute truth?
Click to expand...
That is what is called an ‘analytic truth’, or even simpler, in this case, a tautology. It’s trivially true, as it is a definition. Analytic truths are not statements about the real world, in and of themselves.

For example, “Baseball players are athletes” is a true statement by virtue of our definitions of the terms involved. Our way to know the truth of this statement requires nothing more than understanding these definitions. This is an analytic truth.

However, if I change the statement to “Baseball players are heavy drinkers” I have introduced a completely different kind of proposition – a synthetic proposition, one that makes statements about the real world. The path to knowing the truth (or falsehood) of this statement is NOT simply a matter of familiarity with the terms used. The truth of this statement depends on the state of affairs in the rule world, and is thus not tautologically or trivially true.

I think the real challenge in your question here is in providing clarity for the qualifier “absolute”. 2+2=4 is absolutely true, but in a trivial way, having nothing to do with the state of the world around us. Is that what you were going for?

-TS
 
teachccd said:
How so? Can 2+2 ever =5? If I said that you are reading this right now would that not be absolute truth?
Click to expand...
I don’t know what you mean by the phrase “absolute truth.” So to keep asking me, is this absolute truth? or is that absolute truth? is not going to help until you explain what you mean.

I can tell you, though, that “2+2=5” is true under a sensible definition of arithmetic modulo 0, and that “2+2=4” is false under direct sums of abelian groups.
 
Many atheists on this forum attempt to use pseudo-philosophy to make believers turn from God, but the Scriptures say:
Col 2
8 See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world 3 and not according to Christ.
9 For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity 4 bodily,
10 and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.
Click to expand...
Just a reminder 🙂
 
Touchstone said:
That is what is called an ‘analytic truth’, or even simpler, in this case, a tautology. It’s trivially true, as it is a definition. Analytic truths are not statements about the real world, in and of themselves.

For example, “Baseball players are athletes” is a true statement by virtue of our definitions of the terms involved. Our way to know the truth of this statement requires nothing more than understanding these definitions. This is an analytic truth.

However, if I change the statement to “Baseball players are heavy drinkers” I have introduced a completely different kind of proposition – a synthetic proposition, one that makes statements about the real world. The path to knowing the truth (or falsehood) of this statement is NOT simply a matter of familiarity with the terms used. The truth of this statement depends on the state of affairs in the rule world, and is thus not tautologically or trivially true.

I think the real challenge in your question here is in providing clarity for the qualifier “absolute”. 2+2=4 is absolutely true, but in a trivial way, having nothing to do with the state of the world around us. Is that what you were going for?

-TS
Click to expand...
If I ask you if you are alive right now would that be an analytical truth having nothing to do with the world around you? So then would your saying to me that you are alive right now be a relational truth or an absolute truth not dependant upon anything but your very existence?
 
teachccd said:
I am a confirmation facilitator and our group had a pretty deep discussion on their understanding of truth. Pilate asked Jesus in John 18:38, “what is truth”? Many youths today believe that what is true for someone is their truth. Muslems have their truth and that’s o.k. since that is what truth is for them.

We are on the topic of morality and I wanted to establish the definition of absolute truth as opposed to moral relativism. We discussed faith and reason and how faith is not blind but evidential. It was the most intense discussion thus far.

So now I pose to you: What is truth?
Click to expand...
God is Truth. All Truth comes from God. Non-Truth comes from the Father of Lies.

One can argue if it is true that Green is a more beautiful color than Red, for example. But on moral issues it’s a different story. There is a Truth which is more than an opinion, more than a preference. We cannot define moral truth, that is for God to do. That’s the story of Genesis 3 - an attempt by man to define what is right and what is wrong. An attempt to supplant God - eat of the tree of good and evil and you also can be gods.

The disobedience of Adam and Eve was an attempt to ignore God’s role and take it on ourselves.

The 10 commandments are a summary of moral truth. Note that the first commandment sets the stage for all the others. Laws must have a lawgiver, and the first commandment says just who that lawgiver is, and why the rest of those laws have authority behind them, as opposed to “opinion.”
 
teachccd said:
If I ask you if you are alive right now would that be an analytical truth having nothing to do with the world around you?
Click to expand...
“Touchstone is alive” would be a statement about the real world, assuming by “alive” you mean “conscious and metabolizing”, or some such. That would be a synthetic propoisition.
So then would your saying to me that you are alive right now be a relational truth or an absolute truth not dependant upon anything but your very existence?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘absolute’ here – you haven’t said. If by “absolute” you mean “without qualification”, I would say my existence is an objective fact, a fact which obtains independent of my subjective will or anyone else’s, and allow that as “absolute” – my existence is not beholden to anyone’s subjective qualification.

-TS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top