What is with "non-denominational Christians"?

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Originally Posted by Salvo
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The whole “non-Denominational” thing springs from this whole “have it your way” culture of the US. In other words, “I’ll take some sola-scriptura, some pre-destination, throw in a little ‘by faith alone’ and hold the dogma.” .*
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Matt16_18:
The McChurch happy meals! 😛
Wasn’t that Burger King?? 🙂
 
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mango_2003:
Simple…you don’t believe in the Jesus of the Bible…you aren’t Christian. Simple as that. By what authority??? The Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity is clear.

How can one say that the Trinity is clear from scripture when it took a few hundred years to define the doctrine of the Trinity (Council of Constantinople if I’m not mistaken). If it were so clear, wouldn’t it have been defined much earlier?
 
One thing we must note about the non denoms.
Most people choose to attend these churches.
Many members attend these churches as a result of church shopping or a conversion experience in their adulthood thus they tend to be on fire for their chosen faith.
It gives a false impression that these churches are somehow more filled with the holy spirit. They are not in any intrensic way but appear to be becuase many are committed to their new chosen path. This is an admirable thing.
Many Catholics and mainliners are born into thier churches some plainly go through the motions and never give a seconed though of choosing or reafirmming the faith they were born into. Thus many are ripe for prosthelizing of the non-denom churches
Non-denoms is the latest and greatest of protestantism. If one studies protestantism it is the the constant attempt to reeinvent Christiantiy to the pristine church they interpret as teh church they see in pentacost. With each generation of protestantism the movement is away from what is perceived as a tradition of men. Just think of how much more catholic an high anglican church or high Lutherna church is than the many new non-denom churches are. What you have is Christianity reinventing itslef with its culture of view of Christinity thus these churches are the very essence of the term contemporary. As they wish to cross what they view as modern Christiantiy with modern culture minus what they view the corruption of modern culture. Thus the pop christian music with movie theatre projections and power point presentations.
The view of christian tradition is non-existant. Its as if the church went from Acts to present day america with no in between.
ITs definitely the future of protestnatism as protestant denoms are dying with the erros of modernism and the message foun in these non-denoms is not one of self sacrifice and work rather once saved always saved and a me and Jesus spiritualtiy.
 
La Chiara:
It is all about “ME” and “what I want”. As a post on another thread said, it is the “sin of pride”. So rejecting Catholicism, rejecting organized religion, choosing your own church and what you are willing to believe, or not going to church at all are all about “what I want.”
Yes. What is scary is when people think all they need to do is pick up a bible and instantly become scholars. They fail to realise that the church is itself the author fo the bible, as well as repository of scholarship and knowledge contained within it. It is the sum of centuries of theology and mysticism pondering the intricacies of the bible.

I don’t think I have ever heard anything “new” or “innovative” coming from a “have it your way” Christian.
 
while it’s difficult to say what the motives another person has for anything, the people i know (and when i used to BE a protestant), aren’t non denom for reasons having to do with not wanting to support a church or to commmit. it comes from a logical outcome of ‘protestantism’. rejecting the rejection of the rejection of the teaching of the original church. in other words, ‘we’re not baptist, they’re wrong. we’re not methodist, they’re wrong. we are just followers of Jesus, because He was right, and everything since then is wrong. i have my Bible, and that’s all i need.’ many, or most, non denom churches would also call themselves ‘Bible churches’, which i think smacks of idolatry, but they see as ‘just me and Jesus’ and the Bible is the only way to know how to make that relationship work.

they are honest and sincere about wanting to follow Christ, but are very misled in thinking that the catholic church has been ‘led astray’ from the teaching of Christ, and try to ‘get back to’ a church that never existed.
 
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jeffreedy789:
many, or most, non denom churches would also call themselves ‘Bible churches’, which i think smacks of idolatry, but they see as ‘just me and Jesus’ and the Bible is the only way to know how to make that relationship work.

they are honest and sincere about wanting to follow Christ, but are very misled in thinking that the catholic church has been ‘led astray’ from the teaching of Christ, and try to ‘get back to’ a church that never existed.
I would totally agree with that statement. What is ironic of course is that the church in the Bible was not a Bible church. It was an authoratative church that had councils and ruled dogma without so much as an appeal to the Bible read Acts 15. In fact the dissenters had the Bible on thier side the Judaizsers had the Old Testament and thousands of years going back to Abraham to have the need to cirmcumcise among their cult but the church through Peter in Acts 15 spoke and overuled the dissent without appealing to scripture. What Bible believing church does that today. None of course it they didn’t appeal to scripture in every little things they rule on they cease to be a Bible believing church and have invented a tradition of man.
 
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jeffreedy789:
while it’s difficult to say what the motives another person has for anything, the people i know (and when i used to BE a protestant), aren’t non denom for reasons having to do with not wanting to support a church or to commmit. it comes from a logical outcome of ‘protestantism’. rejecting the rejection of the rejection of the teaching of the original church. in other words, ‘we’re not baptist, they’re wrong. we’re not methodist, they’re wrong. we are just followers of Jesus, because He was right, and everything since then is wrong. i have my Bible, and that’s all i need.’ many, or most, non denom churches would also call themselves ‘Bible churches’, which i think smacks of idolatry, but they see as ‘just me and Jesus’ and the Bible is the only way to know how to make that relationship work.

they are honest and sincere about wanting to follow Christ, but are very misled in thinking that the catholic church has been ‘led astray’ from the teaching of Christ, and try to ‘get back to’ a church that never existed.
Jeff,

Excellent insight here. I really like the rejection of the rejection part 😃 I think these people are for the most part as you say honest and sincere about the DESIRE to want to follow Christ. But if they were sincere in actually wanting to follow Him, they would know exactly where to go, meaning those who have come before them. Whether they beleive it is a Catholic church, Baptist, or other Protestant sect. Thsoe who choose to “go it alone” I think may desire to want to follow Christ, but still have a pride issue of commiting to this desire. Therefore, they want to choose and decide what it means to follow Christ as it suits their own particular agenda.

That’s the way I sees it. And I am just as guilty of this as anyone.
 
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Salvo:
Yes. What is scary is when people think all they need to do is pick up a bible and instantly become scholars. QUOTE]

I agree that this is scary. I used to be on another board where an anti-Catholic gentleman claimed to be a bible scholar. When asked for his credentials he said that he had read the entire bible 8 times. In his mind THAT alone made him an expert.

There is a church which calls itself Christian, which has hundreds of churches nation wide. They teach that ANYONE, including children, can come to a full and accurate understanding of scripture simply by reading it. They claim that the holy Spirit is not necessary as one’s guide in understanding scripture. And of course, they claim that these teachings are “clear” in scripture.

“Have it your way” Christianity is indeed a scary thing.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
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Maccabees:
What is ironic of course is that the church in the Bible was not a Bible church…
VERY good point!!! :clapping:

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
Doesn’t it mean a non-christian supporter of denominationalism?😉
 
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RBushlow:
Doesn’t it mean a non-christian supporter of denominationalism?😉
Hmmm, I think you are referring to a “non-Christian denominationalist”. 😉
 
😃 Heard this on the radio the other day…the guy said that Non-demoninational Christians are the largest denomination of Christians. Just thought i would throw that in here.
 
Gerry Hunter:
The “mainline” denominations are in a bit of disarray because of the encroaching of modernist revisionism. Presbyterians, Anglicans, Lutherans (but NOT the Missouri Synod), even some Baptists have been hit by it. When it takes hold, it empties churches, and the refugees do not want to get stuck to another bigger organization, when the one they were in went down that road.
I think this is a good observation. I totally agree with this. :yup:
 
So would it be fair to say that many or most non-denominational Christian churches are fundamentalist and/or evangelical in their beliefs? Is there some way of characterizing them–like more conservative than Baptists? I know they are all different but I am trying to understand where they fall on the Protestant Christian continuum.
 
La Chiara…Yes!, Yes! Yes! Most Fundamentalists , The Non-denominational Churches and The Evangelical Cluster of Christians can be put in the same basket.

The non-denominationals split from the Fundamentalists as did the Evangelicals and I think they all split from the Baptists as traced bck to the pre-revolutionary days in the U.S. They all came out of the same barrel.

It is hard to use the word conservative with these people. It depends upon what the topic is to determine if the are conservative or not.

Why did all that splitting start to take place about the turn of the 19th century and just before( 1880).Attribute all that to Sola Scriptura and the King James Bible. By 1900 Bibles were cheap enough for one to be in every home. Also about then most people could read, at least a little bit.These people believe that any adult who can read, if given a Bible( oh, yes, a King James Bible- they’d drop a “Catholic” Bible quickly!!)…if given a Bible, they, because of the Holy Spirit guiding him can INTERPRET the Bible better than the Holy Father; for sure! Because he thinks the Holy Father was tainted by Satan. It’s not nice to say that folks, but just last month I was told that by a Church of Christ member, a respected one at that. I was told I was preaching for Satan by another Church of Christ member for insisting that Mary the Mother of God was ever Virgin. Can you believe that? These peope are “different”.
:whacky:
 
In my reprot with the non-denoms they run the fundie to evangelical line. Most are of the premillinium pre-tribulation rapture variety say the words "Left Behind and your in for a very looooong conversation. Big on praise music and the Me and Jesus experience. Many are good people askew in their theology.
 
:So would it be fair to say that many or most non-denominational Christian churches are fundamentalist and/or evangelical in their beliefs?:

They are mostly evangelical/fundamentalist. You do find nondenominational liberal churches as well, but they are usually affiliated with several denominations at once rather than with none! (American Baptist and UCC, for instance.)

However, leaving such churches aside, non-denominational churches cover the spectrum from moderate evangelical (Chapel Hill Bible Church in North Carolina, for instance) to ultra-fundamentalist. One certainly can’t characterize them as “more conservative than Baptists,” in part because Baptists really cover the spectrum, from extremely liberal (don’t believe in the divinity or bodily resurrection of Jesus, support homosexuality, etc.) to hyper-conservative (King James only, Catholics are not Christians, women can’t talk in church, interracial marriage is a sin, etc.). The ultra-fundamentalist Baptists do tend to be “independent,” so they would count as non-denominational. And this is the catch. “Non-denominational” may mean “not clearly associated with one particular Protestant tradition,” or it may simply mean “not a member of a denomination.” In the latter case, there are many Baptist, Pentecostal, and Holiness churches that are non-denominational. What Catholics sometimes find hard to understand is that Baptists, Pentecostals, etc., are not denominations. They are traditions that have a number of denominations and independent churches within them. Also, this gets fuzzy because many independent/nondenominational churches are part of some kind of loose association of churches. When this starts becoming a “denomination” is hard to define. Catholics often sneer at claims of Protestant groups not to be a “denomination,” and sometimes these claims are obviously self-deceiving. But many groups that claim not to be a denomination (the “Independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ,” for instance) do lack some of the things that would characterize, say, the United Methodists (perhaps the most “denominational” of all denominations!). They refuse to build up a denominational bureaucracy, for instance, and the property of each local church clearly belongs to the local congregation and not to the larger group. They don’t even have a mechanism for kicking a local church out of the group, although if enough of the other churches refused to have fellowship with a local church it would effectively be out.

In other words, the definition of “nondenominational” is itself fluid. It’s hard to make generalizations about nondenominational Protestants, and that’s part of their goal–they are trying very hard (though in your view and mine this is misguided and naive) to shed “human traditions” and denominational identities and frustrate the people (like me) who want to put everyone in a neatly defined category. To a great extent you just have to take churches like that as you find them. But you can usually expect them to be very evangelical, and if they are large and bustling with contemporary worship you can usually expect them to be fairly moderate and non-dogmatic (more interested in your “personal relationship with Jesus” than in what doctrines you subscribe to–although of course this focus on a “personal relationship with Jesus” is a dogma of its own and can lead to its own kind of bigotry). If they are small and meet in a storefront or a little white church by the side of the road, then they are more likely to be ultra-fundamentalist. But usually such churches will have a sign out front that says something like "Independent Fundamentalist Bible-Believing King-James-Only . . . . " They aren’t interested in hiding their colors.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
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Exporter:
Why did all that splitting start to take place about the turn of the 19th century and just before( 1880).Attribute all that to Sola Scriptura and the King James Bible. By 1900 Bibles were cheap enough for one to be in every home. Also about then most people could read, at least a little bit.These people believe that any adult who can read, if given a Bible( oh, yes, a King James Bible- they’d drop a “Catholic” Bible quickly!!)…if given a Bible, they, because of the Holy Spirit guiding him can INTERPRET the Bible better than the Holy Father; for sure! Because he thinks the Holy Father was tainted by Satan. It’s not nice to say that folks, but just last month I was told that by a Church of Christ member, a respected one at that. I was told I was preaching for Satan by another Church of Christ member for insisting that Mary the Mother of God was ever Virgin. Can you believe that? These peope are “different”.
:whacky:
In order for anyone to tell you that you preach for Satan he must believe that HE is preaching for God thereby being divinely protected from preaching error. We claim nothing for the pope that he does not claim for himself yet he will vehemently oppose the papacy. I wonder why the double standard??

Non-denominationalists are ultra-Protestants because they are protesting the protestors. Some are protesting those who protest the protestors and so on and so on ad infanitum. There seems to be no end in sight.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
Contarini made a good point. While we Catholic just assume that a Denominatioal Church would have a heirachy, Bishops etc. The nonDenominatioanals do not have an organization that extends outside of the local church. The Church of Christ people do not answer to anyone outside of their local churches. But they tell me that the congregation “elects” an overseer or sometimes called a Bishop in that Church.
They are adamant the their local Bishop be married with children!
They say our unmarried Bishops are invalid.:banghead:
 
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Exporter:
They are adamant the their local Bishop be married with children!
They say our unmarried Bishops are invalid.:banghead:
I guess Jesus and Saint Paul wouldn’t be leaders in their church.
Oh wait a minute Paul was a catholic apostle and Jesus was the founder of the catholic church both single chaste men.
Of course this list could go on and on without single chaste men their would be no bible as they were the only ones to have the time to meticulously translate ala Jerome and copy word by word copies of the Bible from the time of Christ to the dawn of the reformation their was no printing press.
 
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