What is worse polygamy or Homosexuality?

[VanitasVanitatum]

I realize you don’t make the rules, but what is the rationale of this? Doesn’t the rest of one’s life count for something with respect to judgment and salvation?

Only if you refuse to repent. So it is the impenitence and clinging to the sin that causes us to go to hell.

 

[Rhubarb]

Obsessively worrying about other strangers’ sins is way worse.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Ironically enough.

 

[CRV]

Both are grave matter. Murder is graver than theft based on the 10 commandments. The same way in that adultery is graver than coveting your neighbors wife. At least in my opinion.

It is true as others have posted, all mortal sins lead to death of sanctifying grace in the soul, and in that sense there is no point in determining which mortal sin is graver than another. Obviously assuming the sinner commits a sin that is grave matter with full knowledge and full consent.

 

[Todd_Easton]

This does not directly address the original question but St Thomas Aquinas does address the question of the morality of polygamy in his Summa Theologiae, Supplement to the Third Part, Question 65.

 

[Allegra]

I’m not sure how spiritually healthy it is to sit around ranking the sins of other people. I propose considering the severity of one’s own sins, or of sins one is tempted to commit might be more beneficial.

 

[ratio1]

I think apart from differentiating between venial and mortal sins, I’m not sure how helpful it is to rank sins.

I have 2 questions for you and anyone here (I’m sincerely asking these questions, not trying to be rhetorical)

1. Where in the Bible or catechism does it say we should be ranking sins apart from venial/mortal?
2. What is the consequence or purpose of ranking sins that you are looking for? As in, even if we can somehow rank sins, what are you going to do with this information? (start judging people? Teach kids the rank? Sense of security that one has committed a “lesser sin”?)

 

[CRV]

CCC #1858 " Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger. "

#132 Mk 10:19

IMO, it is something we should know, it helps us to form our consciences according to the teaching of the Church. We are to judge our own sins, as well as judging the gravity of various actions, and so as to judge correctly whether to go to Communion or not, or whether we need to go to Confession first.

 

[ratio1]

and so as to judge correctly whether to go to Communion or not, or whether we need to go to Confession first.

Any other reason apart from this? Wouldn’t knowing the difference between venial and mortal be sufficient? Why do we need to know whether one mortal sin is graver than another mortal sin?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Wouldn’t knowing the difference between venial and mortal be sufficient?

Yes.

Why do we need to know whether one mortal sin is graver than another mortal sin?

We don’t. Any mortal sin destroys our relationship with God; therefore if we think we have committed a mortal sin, it doesn’t matter whether it’s better or worse than other possible mortal sins, the result is still the same, and we need to confess it ASAP and not receive Communion till we are absolved.

The danger in trying to rank grave, possibly mortal, sins is that a person will end up deciding their grave sin really isn’t so bad, because they didn’t kill anybody, or punch out their own father, etc. In other words, minimizing a lot of grave, possibly mortal sins on the basis that there are worse mortal sins out there.

 

[CRV]

It helps in forming the conscience to judge matters correctly.

 

[SITA]

Just to be clear I wasn’t judging anyone s sins. But just discussing with my husband how gay marriage has become widely accepted in the community, but when you discuss with those who support it arguing that, that it’s just as wrong as a polygamous marriage people seem to be scandalised and shocked by this statement . When in reality they are just as bad and in fact as some of you pointed out, St Thomas even ranks homosexuality as a worse sin. I do think that the graver sin here is the normalisation of the sin itself so much so that even people with faith start to think “ah it’s not that bad”

 

[ratio1]

The problem is that there won’t be a clear cut answer and I would contend that it is actually meaningless.
The analogy is like asking whether apples or oranges are the better fruit.
I just think they are different and you can’t say one is worse than the other.

 

[CRV]

I just think they are different and you can’t say one is worse than the other.

Take that up with the catechism then. I believe you asked for that evidence earlier, which I provided, so if you have an issue with it, take it up with Church authorities instead.

 

[ratio1]

I am grateful for your answer. I hope I don’t come across as being critical, I’m just trying to explore ideas and hear other people’s thoughts and I like to have my ideas challenged as well.

I have no doubt that there must be a degree of gravity of sins, as we do believe that the more sins we commit, the longer we need to be purified in purgatory. But I think that is for God to decide rather than for us to know. I think trying to work out which mortals sins are worse is fraught with all sorts of problems. At the very least it is unhelpful, if not downright impossible.

Eg let’s take a seemingly “easy” scenario: is killing someone worse or commiting adultery worse? Obviously my immediate answer is murder. But if I think about it a bit longer, there are certain aspects about adultery that is worse than murder…
Anyway I’m happy to be corrected.

 

[Anicette]

Polygamy is still tolerated or even accepted in some parts of the world, and even practiced by some nominal Catholics.

In more western world, what some, like Lev Tolstoï called “successive polygamy” are practiced. That is divorce+remarriage etc.

All are, accordinng to the Cathechism grave offense against the sacrament of marriage.
On a natural law perspective, whereas both are not the most natural to our species, polygamy does not carry the same unaturality than homesexuality. It is more correctly ordered than homexuality. it can created some sort of families.
so we can say that on a natural perspective, homosexuality is worst.

(Of course, if we asked to western people, they would respend the contrary because of cultural reasons.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But just discussing with my husband how gay marriage has become widely accepted in the community, but when you discuss with those who support it arguing that, that it’s just as wrong as a polygamous marriage people seem to be scandalised and shocked by this statement .

Gay marriage is monogamous. Therefore it is not like a polygamous marriage. Both are bad in their own way, but comparing the two is going to cause most people to disagree with you. I myself think it’s a bad comparison because the main argument for gay marriage is to allow two gay people to have a legally recognized exclusive commitment to each other, whereas polygamous marriage is not an exclusive commitment, nor is it legally recognized in the USA or most other places in the world.

I would add that the Old Testament is full of polygamous marriages, many of them involving patriarchs and prophets whom we now regard as saints, such as David and Jacob. I am not aware of any gay marriages in Scripture. So that is another reason it’s a bad comparison.

 

[Anicette]

just to suppress a western bias: polygamous marriage are accepted in MORE places in the world than “gay” marriage…

 

[Vico]

That doctrine of Catholicism is one of the most problematic for me (not necessarily because I commit so many mortal sins but rather in principle). I realize you don’t make the rules, but what is the rationale of this? Doesn’t the rest of one’s life count for something with respect to judgment and salvation? I also wish to ask you and others whether this is a hard and fast doctrine of the Church? In other words, cannot the mercy of G-d supersede even dying unrepentant in a state of mortal sin?

The idea that the general orientation and not the final state (and that an individual mortal sin may not change that) determines the outcome of the soul is the moral theory called the fundamental option. Pope St. John Paul II addressed this theory in his 1993 encyclical Veritatis Splendor as incompatible with Catholic teaching.

70 … “For mortal sin exists also when a person knowingly and willingly, for whatever reason, chooses something gravely disordered. In fact, such a choice already includes contempt for the divine law, a rejection of God’s love for humanity and the whole of creation: the person turns away from God and loses charity. Consequently, the fundamental orientation can be radically changed by particular acts. Clearly, situations can occur which are very complex and obscure from a psychological viewpoint, and which influence the sinner’s subjective imputability. But from a consideration of the psychological sphere one cannot proceed to create a theological category, which is precisely what the ‘fundamental option’ is, understanding it in such a way that it objectively changes or casts doubt upon the traditional concept of mortal sin”.

The Catechism explains that there is divine respect for our free will:

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

Without this freedom the person could not express love.

Catechism

25 … The whole concern of doctrine and its teaching must be directed to the love that never ends. Whether something is proposed for belief, for hope or for action, the love of our Lord must always be made accessible, so that anyone can see that all the works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and have no other objective than to arrive at love.

 

[CRV]

I think trying to work out which mortals sins are worse is fraught with all sorts of problems. At the very least it is unhelpful, if not downright impossible.

I’ll side with the CCC in this as it is based on the 10 Commandments given to us by God. God set the order, not Moses (human). God judged some sins more serious than others.

if not downright impossible

I respect your opinion in this, but I don’t agree.

is killing someone worse or commiting adultery worse? Obviously my immediate answer is murder. But if I think about it a bit longer, there are certain aspects about adultery that is worse than murder…

murder = the taking of anothers’ life
adultery = lust/betrayal of spouse/trust

there are certain aspects about adultery that is worse than murder…

What would these be?