What is wrong with Maritain?

[tjkozinski]

Joan:

Thanks!

 

[tjkozinski]

Maritain was the French ambassador to the Vatican, not the UN, as I erroneously state in the article.

 

[Solus_vistor]

"The Church has broken the ties which pretended to protect her, and has rid herself of burdenswhich people used to think equipped her better for the work of salvation. Free henceforth from these burdens and these ties, she mirrors better the true face of God, which is Love, and for herself seeks only liberty. She spreads her wings of light.

Will they shelter our cities and our fields if the world, for its part, decides to leave her truly free? Or will they serve her to flee to the desert, if the world sets itself against her in order to ennslave her and bind her in chains?"

[Le Paysan de la Garonne (1966)/The Peasant of the Garonne: An Old Layman Questions Himself About the Present Time, Macmillan 1968, p. 12-13]

What prophetic words, written 44 years ago, about the crucial dilemma the Church faces from the increasingly secularised “world”, at least in the West, today!

 

[Geremia]

Read the HOLY BIBLE and not philosophy.

We are Catholic, not Muslim. We do not forbid philosophy, as does Sharia law; truth cannot contradict truth.

 

[Geremia]

I read that the Holy Father Pope Paul VI considered appointed Maritain a lay cardinal and weeped upon hearing of his death.

Lay cardinal? I have never heard of that.

 

[JohnDamian]

Lay cardinal? I have never heard of that.

A Lay Cardinal is a Cardinal with no Major Orders.

Since 1917 this has been illegal.

 

[TJDonegan]

Maritain tries to reconcile Kant & St. Thomas, rendering Thomism
'critical; as E Gilson points out, no reconcilliation is possible without gutting Thomism.

tjd

 

[itinerant1]

Maritain tries to reconcile Kant & St. Thomas, rendering Thomism
'critical; as E Gilson points out, no reconcilliation is possible without gutting Thomism.

tjd

While Maritain used the phrase “critical realism” favorably, I do not see where he attempts in the least to reconcile Kant and St. Thomas. Gilson would be the first to point that out if what you say about Maritain is correct. However, I have not seen any such accusation by Gilson. Perhaps you can cite some text that give you reason for your assertion.

As far as Gilson’s thesis is concerned, I think he made his case most solidly and irrefutably against those Thomists (Mercier, et al.) who put knowing prior to the thing known, as did Descartes. I was disappointed, though, that Maritain was not more understanding of Gilson’s particular critique of critical realism.

Gilson’s challenge to the critical realism created a lot of hard feelings amongst a number of prominent Thomists. Lonergan, for example, dissed Gilson. Nonetheless, the great Etienne Gilson was right on, as usual.

 

[dayofwrath]

We are Catholic, not Muslim. We do not forbid philosophy, as does Sharia law; truth cannot contradict truth.

Philosophy is not the truth.The TRUTH is the word of God.

 

[itinerant1]

Philosophy is not the truth.The TRUTH is the word of God.

You should try thinking from a Christian perspective.

Quid est vita sine philosophia?

Following St. Peter Damian, St. Thomas Aquinas considered philosophy to be the handmaiden of theology (ancilla theologiae).

“Is it not the task of philosophy to inquire about the divine?” ~St. Justin Martyr; Dialogue with Trypho, I.

Philosophy is the knowledge of that which exists, and a clear understanding of truth; and happiness is the reward of such knowledge and understanding." ~ St. Justin Martyr; Dialogue with Trypho, 3.

“Philosophy is the knowledge of things human and divine, united with a zeal for right living.” ~ St. Isidore of Seville; Etymologies, 2, 24.

“Philosophy is the art of arts and science of sciences.” ~St. John Damascene; Dialectica, 3.

“Philosophy, if rightly made use of by the wise, in a certain way tends to smooth and fortify the road to true faith, and to prepare the souls of its disciples for fit reception of Revelation; for which reason it is well called by ancient writers sometimes a stepping-stone to the Christian faith, sometimes the prelude and help of Christianity, sometimes the Gospel teacher.” ~ Pope Leo XIII; Aeterni Patris.

“Philosophy does not seek to overthrow revelation; it seeks rather to defend it against assailants.” ~ Pope Leo XIII; Inscrutabili.

 

[Contarini]

Apparently there is an Engilsh translation, but it seems rare.

I own it. I would gladly swap it for a French copy. My French needs more practice.

Edwin

 

[itinerant1]

Apparently there is an Engilsh translation, but it seems rare.

Used copies in English are easy to find from online used book sellers.

For example, see amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The+peasant+of+the+Garonne&x=12&y=21

 

[dayofwrath]

Maybe for certain people philosophy is required but be sure that a few seconds of revelation from the Holy Spirit for a sinner and ignorant person is more important than all the books of philosophy.God bless you

 

[Geremia]

You should try thinking from a Christian perspective.

Quid est vita sine philosophia?

Following St. Peter Damian, St. Thomas Aquinas considered philosophy to be the handmaiden of theology (ancilla theologiae).

“Is it not the task of philosophy to inquire about the divine?” ~St. Justin Martyr; Dialogue with Trypho, I.

Philosophy is the knowledge of that which exists, and a clear understanding of truth; and happiness is the reward of such knowledge and understanding." ~ St. Justin Martyr; Dialogue with Trypho, 3.

“Philosophy is the knowledge of things human and divine, united with a zeal for right living.” ~ St. Isidore of Seville; Etymologies, 2, 24.

“Philosophy is the art of arts and science of sciences.” ~St. John Damascene; Dialectica, 3.

“Philosophy, if rightly made use of by the wise, in a certain way tends to smooth and fortify the road to true faith, and to prepare the souls of its disciples for fit reception of Revelation; for which reason it is well called by ancient writers sometimes a stepping-stone to the Christian faith, sometimes the prelude and help of Christianity, sometimes the Gospel teacher.” ~ Pope Leo XIII; Aeterni Patris.

“Philosophy does not seek to overthrow revelation; it seeks rather to defend it against assailants.” ~ Pope Leo XIII; Inscrutabili.

Thanks for the excellent compilation of quotes! They are all good!

 

[Geremia]

Philosophy is not the truth.

Some philosophies are false, this is true. St. Thomas Aquinas’s “perennial philosophy” is the truest. Vide Denzinger:

1649 1 “Although faith is above reason, nevertheless no true dissension, no disagreement can ever be found between them, since both arise from the one same immutable source of truth, the most excellent and great God, and thus bring mutual help to each other” * [cf. n.1635 and 1799]

1650 2. Reason can prove with certitude the existence of God, the spirituality of the soul, the freedom of man. Faith is posterior to revelation, and hence it cannot be conveniently alleged to prove the existence of God to an atheist, or to prove the spirituality and the freedom of the rational soul against a follower of naturalism and fatalism [cf. n.1622,1625 ].

1651 3. The use of reason precedes faith and leads men to it by the help of revelation and of grace [cf. n. 1626 ].

1652 4. The method which St. Thomas and St. Bonaventure and other scholastics after them used does not lead to rationalism, nor has it been the reason why philosophy in today’s schools is falling into naturalism and pantheism. Therefore, it is not lawful to charge as a reproach against these doctors and teachers that they made use of this method, especially since the Church approves, or at least keeps silent.*

The TRUTH is the word of God.

If you mean the only truth is Revelation, then this is fideism or traditionalism, both of which the Church has condemned.

 

[TJDonegan]

While Maritain used the phrase “critical realism” favorably, I do not see where he attempts in the least to reconcile Kant and St. Thomas. Gilson would be the first to point that out if what you say about Maritain is correct. However, I have not seen any such accusation by Gilson. Perhaps you can cite some text that give you reason for your assertion.

As far as Gilson’s thesis is concerned, I think he made his case most solidly and irrefutably against those Thomists (Mercier, et al.) who put knowing prior to the thing known, as did Descartes. I was disappointed, though, that Maritain was not more understanding of Gilson’s particular critique of critical realism.

Gilson’s challenge to the critical realism created a lot of hard feelings amongst a number of prominent Thomists. Lonergan, for example, dissed Gilson. Nonetheless, the great Etienne Gilson was right on, as usual.

 

[TJDonegan]

While Maritain used the phrase “critical realism” favorably, I do not see where he attempts in the least to reconcile Kant and St. Thomas. Gilson would be the first to point that out if what you say about Maritain is correct. However, I have not seen any such accusation by Gilson. Perhaps you can cite some text that give you reason for your assertion.

As far as Gilson’s thesis is concerned, I think he made his case most solidly and irrefutably against those Thomists (Mercier, et al.) who put knowing prior to the thing known, as did Descartes. I was disappointed, though, that Maritain was not more understanding of Gilson’s particular critique of critical realism.

Gilson’s challenge to the critical realism created a lot of hard feelings amongst a number of prominent Thomists. Lonergan, for example, dissed Gilson. Nonetheless, the great Etienne Gilson was right on, as usual.

 

[dayofwrath]

For God sake stop debating.I did not mean that.The word of God is the first and the end.Revelation is the work of the Holy Spirit in any person came to the Lord with true repentance and is based on the scriptures.Protestants are 100% right and Catholics are 100% right.The important thing the DIVINE touch of inside and not the outside.

 

[JohnDamian]

For God sake stop debating.I did not mean that.The word of God is the first and the end.Revelation is the work of the Holy Spirit in any person came to the Lord with true repentance and is based on the scriptures.Protestants are 100% right and Catholics are 100% right.The important thing the DIVINE touch of inside and not the outside.

How on earth can both be 100% right?

How can one baptism be 100% right and rebaptism be 100% right?
How can male priesthood only be 100% right, and female&male priesthood be 100% right?
How can faith along be 100% right, and faith and works be 100% right?
How can intercessory prayer be 100% right, and 100% wrong?
How can Sola Scriptura be both 100% wrong and 100% right?

 

[TJDonegan]

I misspoke/miswrote when I asserted: “Maritain tries to reconcile Kant & St Thomas, rendering Thomism critical; as E Gilson points out, no reconciliation is possible without gutting Thomism.” I have Maritain’s The Degrees of Knowledge; bought 2 copies from an on line bookstore (guess I would not have bought them if I could have thumbed through them), one sent as a gift for a friend, but when I thumbed though my copy upon receiving it and viewed the title of chapter 3, Critical Realism, I set it aside, and called the recipient of the other copy to tell him to do the same. I sent him a copy of Gilson’s The Christian Philosophy of St Thomas Aquinas.

So I misspoke/miswrote for I have not read Maritain’s work; I also have Bernard Lonergan’s Collected Works volumes 3 & 5, which for the same reason, I set them aside. It may be that they are not attempting to render Thomism critical, but at a cursory glance that seems to be the case. Having been warned, by E Gilson; I steer clear of such works, and I guess, though I was misspoken, and perhaps mistaken, with my initial assertion, perhaps it still accounts for why Maritain may be viewed as having something wrong about his works.

tjd