What is wrong with the west?

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SuperLuigi said:
I have to disagree with this ever so cautiously. The reason is the Catholic internet has been bomblasted with shallow excuse-making and low-quality conscience reflections.

Anecdotally, I know too many people where an annulment is justified. In some cases, it’s painfully obvious the marriage vows were not made in good faith.

The larger point you make isn’t lost: We have a problem with the break-up of the family, but it’s not because of Catholic teaching.
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Take a look at the Catholic statistics versus the statistics for Protestants. In 1929, in the USA there were fewer than 10 marriage annulments per year, whereas in 1990, there were more than 70,000 Catholic marriage annulments in the USA. Each marriage annulment is preceded by a civil divorce. Do you see a corresponding increase in family breakups among Protestants over the same period? No.
 
  1. All those school shooters would not be school shooters if the second amendment had been abolished a long time ago, I.e. If the US had done its homework.
  2. And yet the US has never had such a high standard or living.
  3. And? Like that never happened before?
  4. Why, exactly? Because society no longer conforms to Catholic ideals of what it should be?
 
Curious11 said:
All those school shooters would not be school shooters if the second amendment had been abolished a long time ago, I.e. If the US had done its homework.
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We have a 2nd Amendment because the Founding Fathers did their homework. BTW, nearly every single mass shooting occurs in a gun-free or gun control zone.

It is very Catholic to support the 2nd Amendment and an act of compassion.
Curious11 said:
Why, exactly? Because society no longer conforms to Catholic ideals of what it should be?
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Yes. In fact, there is now an all-out war against children. Just look at the transgender nonsense. Everyone is supposed to conform and let grown men share a locker room with teenage girls. They’re even beta-testing pedophilia.
Curious11 said:
And yet the US has never had such a high standard or living.
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The standard of living was better in the 1950s when certain ratios are considered.
 
Wait a minute… Materialism is winning against Abortion?

Explain it to me why you picked Materialism over the most famous Catholic answer?

Even better to know right wing jerks & I love you all no matter if you’re a jerk to me 😘
 
SuperLuigi said:
We have a 2nd Amendment because the Founding Fathers did their homework. BTW, nearly every single mass shooting occurs in a gun-free or gun control zone
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In Western Civilization, practically every loss of freedom is proceeded by the phrase “It’s for the children!”
 
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What is wrong with the west?
Sin.
I don’t buy into “these are the worst times ever”.
Sin has always been around.
Look at the crucifixion.

Deicide. What could be “worse than” deicide?
 
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The WEST is a euphemism for Christianity.

We stopped teaching [and learning] Christianity … converting to “feeling in your heart”.


And there are unspeakable enemies, such as exemplified by this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Slaves-Muslim-Masters-Mediterranean/dp/1403945519

Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, The Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800 (Early Modern History: Society and Culture) Paperback – November 4, 2004
by R. Davis (Author)

It still exists today.
 
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Look up the name of Bella Dodd.

Here is one item:

Remember hat Bella Dodd said to to the U.S. Congessional investigation of her back in 1953 ?
Communist infiltration was so extensive that in the future “you will not recognize the Catholic Church,” Dodd also asserted that:
“In the 1930’s, we put eleven hundred men into the priesthood in order to destroy the Church from within.”
“Right now they are in the highest places, and they are working to bring about change in order that the Catholic Church will no longer be effective against Communism.”
Manning Johnson, a former Communist Party official and author of “Color, Communism and Common Sense” testified in 1953 to the House un-American Activities Committee regarding the infiltration of the Catholic Church:
“Once the tactic of infiltration of religious organizations was set by the Kremlin … the Communists discovered that the destruction of religion could proceed much faster through infiltration of the (Catholic) Church by Communists operating within the Church itself. The Communist leadership in the United States realized that the infiltration tactic in this country would have to adapt itself to American conditions (Europe also had its cells) and the religious make-up peculiar to this country. In the earliest stages it was determined that with only small forces available to them, it would be necessary to concentrate Communist agents in the seminaries. The practical conclusion drawn by the Red leaders was that these institutions would make it possible for a small Communist minority to influence the ideology of future clergymen in the paths conducive to Communist purposes This policy of infiltrating seminaries was successful beyond even our communist expectations.”
 
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I notice that all of the “options” listed in the pole are things that don’t have much to do with how the human element of the Church is conducting its affairs. For this reason, I won’t be voting.

Loss of faith doesn’t come about because of sin and error. It’s the other way around. People sin more and fall into greater error when they lose faith.

My two cents are that three things have effected the loss of faith in the West more than anything else.
  1. The relaxing of Church discipline, and subsequent increase in public scandal for the Church.
  2. The refusal to preach about the punishments of Hell, and on the reverse side, the great rewards of Heaven, perhaps in part because of this bizarre, Hindu-esque notion that’s been circulating through the Christian faith recently, that Heaven involves being assimilated into God, to the point of losing all of your freedom and agency, like some kind of Lovecraftian abomination. Even Christians are losing faith in the kind of Heaven that individual people could consider a reward, and that needs to be overturned.
  3. Our worship has become human-centric, and puts less stress on focusing the attention on higher things than it once did.
One of the most important things in this life is reminding people that putting all their eggs in the “Heaven basket” is a safe investment. If you have that, there won’t be a loss of faith. If you don’t have that, nothing can prevent it.
 
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I voted “materialism” as it necessarily reduces all human activity to the “here and now.” With nothing to lose and nothing to gain in a transcendent sense, Western societies are caught up in a morass of unfettered greed, and a ruthless drive for personal profit that reduces everything - including human life - to a monetary value.

Scripture said that “the love of money is the root of all evil.”

It seems to me, materialism has demonstrated that truth quite baldly, coldly and effectively in the West.
 
This is the reason why I chose materialism as the start of the decline of the West.
 
All of the above. I would say a reliance on ideological frameworks in general is it’s problem (and the church btw, is not an ideology…but it’s produced many within it that weren’t helpful). Strangely, this was Nietzsche’s prediction as well. He had some insight at least on this - his targets were just wrong imo. But what he predicted is that people would inevitably shed these frameworks and fall into the danger of no ideology/nihilism. It would be a long, bloody road getting out (as the World Wars and Communism demonstrated).
 
straykat said:
All of the above. I would say a reliance on ideological frameworks in general is it’s problem (and the church btw, is not an ideology…but it’s produced many within it that weren’t helpful). Strangely, this was Nietzsche’s prediction as well. He had some insight at least on this - his targets were just wrong imo. But what he predicted is that people would inevitably shed these frameworks and fall into the danger of no ideology/nihilism. It would be a long, bloody road getting out (as the World Wars and Communism demonstrated).
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Didn’t Chesterton say that if you don’t believe in anything, then you’ll fall for everything? The way this has panned out in contemporary society looks to me that people are nihilistic in relation to God, but just redirect their spiritual and ethical energies elsewhere, with every fad cause, and with more zeal than Christians (who are more aware of their own limitiations). I realise that yours is a very quick summary of Nietzshe, but his prophecy seems to have missed what Chesterton saw better.
 
I’m a young adult in college as well as leader of the altar servers at my parish (all of whom besides me are in high school, middle school, or elementary school). I’ll speak on behalf of what I’ve seen with this age group since these are the people I work with. Before I begin writing this, I believe many issues are at play and I am not arguing that this is the only or even the biggest issue, but that this is one of the many.
A lot of it has to do with the parents and young children. I’ve noticed that if the parents don’t participate in the faith by attending Mass every Sunday and teaching their children about their faith and prayer, then their children will never learn the importance of Mass and prayer, and hence never join the Church. Even if the children are sent to Catholic schools and there is some education about the faith, it won’t matter if the parents don’t attend Mass and encourage prayer at home.

Another issue is a lack of catechesis for adults. If parents can’t understand their own faith, then how can they teach their children. There needs to be more catechesis not only for children but for adults as well. Working with children and teenagers in the Church, I can attest to the fact that they have a lot of questions about the Mass and why particular things are done and what they mean. I did my very best to explain all the parts of the Easter Triduum to them so that they could understand the importance of this sacred time. Their parents couldn’t answer most of their questions.

I know I am far too old to be an altar server at my parish, as I’m the only college-aged server but I feel like a role model for these children. I can remain at my post as leader and trainer without continuing to serve, but I feel like it wouldn’t be the same for them. I had two teenagers tell me that they would not be this religious if it wasn’t for me. I try to lead by example of what it means to fully participate in our faith. I could preach and instruct them, but I feel like I do a better job by being a living example of what I teach these children. Thus, this is why I’m hesitant to give up serving (at least until I finish my degree). So in short, I think that children need more role models, younger role models, who are just a few years older than them and can connect with them better than anyone over 30 can.
 
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I think it’s always good for any Catholic to witness people at the next stage of life setting a good example so they can mentally project themselves. I think the reason a lot of confirmation teens drift is because they don’t have this.
 
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MonteRCMS said:
“In the 1930’s, we put eleven hundred men into the priesthood in order to destroy the Church from within.”

“Right now they are in the highest places, and they are working to bring about change in order that the Catholic Church will no longer be effective against Communism.”
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So who are these Communist leaders in the Catholic Church?
 
mytruepower2 said:
My two cents…
The relaxing of Church discipline, and subsequent increase in public scandal for the Church.
…
Our worship has become human-centric, and puts less stress on focusing the attention on higher things than it once did.
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The Eastern Orthodox Church has maintained the fasting rules during Lent and its Liturgy is still quite beautiful.



 
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Read “None Dare Call It Treason” by John A. Stormer.

[name-calling does not become you.]
 
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