What is wrong with this marriage?

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If I were your husband, I’d say I needed a good talking to. Don’t condescend, but do in fact sit him down. Does he drink tea? Make tea and share your grief with him. Its entirely possible that he wants you to do that, but even if he doesn’t, we’ve all been through difficulties and arguments that we didn’t want to have to endure…And we’re alive and have our eyes set on Heaven.

Don’t underestimate pornography. That is the only puzzle that fits the piece, it seems to me. It is truly a curse. So I think your husband feels quite guilty about whatever he was viewing. He needs to know your suspicions. You shouldn’t have to keep waiting for an explanation.

Spend some time in prayer and then kill him with kindness. Don’t put it off.

Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis.
 
Wow, Kage AR, your post was very helpful. Thank you. Saying it that way does not sound like an attack. It sounds honest and vulnerable, which hopefully keeps him from getting defensive and clamming up. I will heed your advice and let you know how it goes.

Thank you also to House Arrest for validating my concerns.
 
There is a way to check the computer, beyond the most visited sites… and I am not suggesting this to be sneaky. Just so you know what you are dealing with as you are not likely to get an honest answer if you ask, how often… Along with porn, goes lying to cover the tracks.
Open the internet. Go to tools> Internet options> A dialogue box will come up > general > browsing history> settings> view files. A a whole list will come up. Unless he knows how to delete these too.

And BEFORE I get jumped on… I say this only so you know the extent of the problem. It maybe that he only did it once and thought better of it… then at least you could believe him if he said that.
I just know that when this kind of sin creeps in, they will do or say anything to protect themselves.
 
Confronting someone I love about this is easier said than done. It’s embarrassing, disappointing, and painful to think that he is looking at porn on top of not being intimate with me. I feel like I must be a disappointment to him as a wife. All of the recent events in our marriage have made me feel pretty low, and I don’t have it in me to beg for his affection anymore. I don’t mean to whine and ramble, I’m just feeling ill-prepared for dealing with this issue and would like support. 😊
I bet it must be hard. Don’t worry, you aren’t whining and rambling, its probably very hard to deal with this. Also, you don’t need to beg for his affection, just talk about what is going on without pleading or confronting. Pray hard before you take any action, ask Jesus to be with you, to help you remain calm, loving, non-confrontational, and not beg, etc. He was with you when you said your vows and He was there in creating that bond in your marriage, He wants you to have a good solid marriage.
 
Wow, Kage AR, your post was very helpful. Thank you. Saying it that way does not sound like an attack. It sounds honest and vulnerable, which hopefully keeps him from getting defensive and clamming up. I will heed your advice and let you know how it goes.

Thank you also to House Arrest for validating my concerns.
I will be praying for both of you.
 
:crying: I need a hug now.

Jules11, thank you for the advice. I took the advice, and now I think I know what’s wrong with this marriage. I am so sad. At this point I am too hurt to say anything to him. I will wait a few days and let it sink in so that I’m not acting out of anger. I will pray for the strength and the ability to forgive him. But trusting him- how will I do that?

I have had the hardest time mustering up any self-esteem since my two back to back pregnancies. This destroys what tiny amount I had. I know I’m smart and capable as a student, I know I’m extravagantly loving as a mother. But I want to be a desirable wife too. And quite apparently I’m not. No wonder he hasn’t been interested in sex. No wonder.

Please pray for me. And I could use encouragement/advice from those of you who have had to deal with the pornography issue.

Sweet Lord Jesus, Lovingly embrace those who are bound by the sin of pornography. Heal the broken lives that give themselves over to be looked at, and the lives of those who look at it.
 
:crying: I need a hug now.

Jules11, thank you for the advice. I took the advice, and now I think I know what’s wrong with this marriage. I am so sad. At this point I am too hurt to say anything to him. I will wait a few days and let it sink in so that I’m not acting out of anger. I will pray for the strength and the ability to forgive him. But trusting him- how will I do that?

I have had the hardest time mustering up any self-esteem since my two back to back pregnancies. This destroys what tiny amount I had. I know I’m smart and capable as a student, I know I’m extravagantly loving as a mother. But I want to be a desirable wife too. And quite apparently I’m not. No wonder he hasn’t been interested in sex. No wonder.

Please pray for me. And I could use encouragement/advice from those of you who have had to deal with the pornography issue.

Sweet Lord Jesus, Lovingly embrace those who are bound by the sin of pornography. Heal the broken lives that give themselves over to be looked at, and the lives of those who look at it.
Oh I am SO sorry!! But remember… this is HIS problem and HIS addiction. It is not you!
At least you now know what is at the root of the problem.
I’m sorry. It must be a real blow to your self esteem.
There are some very good sites that deal with this addiction. Many people on here would tell you them. I don’t know the name of them. Is he Catholic?
Maybe a Holy picture as your desktop would be a small deterrant… or it may just make him angry. I don’t know.
I’m so sorry… I’ll pray for you.
 
Hi, first of all I am very amazed about your post. It seems that you have good reasons to believe that your husband looks at porn and that something is wrong when he does not sleep with you. I too don’t think it sounds like he is in love w you when he acts that way. But what I really sense through your words is that you are both naive and insecure. You have to trust your sixt sense. You don’t want to blame him incorrectly, you say, but I think it is an excuse you make for not daring to confront him. I think you should talk to him about the sleeping situation AND the porn thing. All of it. Don’t accept things being like this when you are supposed to be happy and in love in your marriage. Good Luck sis
 
Hi there.

To the OP.

I wanted to let you know that it may not be total black and white here. I’m in a situation with my wife where we are not intimate…at least not on a regular basis, and have not been for about 3 years now.

I know that I’m not addicted to porn or masturbation, but I do know that my troubles with intimacy has caused me to stumble and “indulge” in it once or twice.
I still love my wife dearly though and will not leave her for the world.

Because your husband indulges in this, is not necesarily a sign that he is fully addicted. It could be that he is, like me, striving to remain pure but stumbles every once in a while.

I’m NOT making excuses for him, it’s wrong and we should all strive to aviod it at all costs. You should defiantely talk to him about your issues, with intimacy, with seperate sleeping arrangements and about his viewing porn.

If you can solve the root cause, then there is a chance that the secondary effects will disappear.

I say talk to him and get this out in the open before it has time to fester.

PM
 
PM,

What kinds of things might be the root cause? It would help to get a guy’s point of view because from my vantage point, I’m way too emotional about this to reason this out on my own.

I missed my nursing clinical today because I am feeling SO LOW. I don’t want this filth intruding on my marriage. I don’t want it in my house. I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t love me the way he promised to. Is a man who looks at porn more inclined to cheat “in real life”?

PM, thanks for your response. Maybe you can help shed a little more light for me.

Kittery
 
Rather than “confront” him about his viewing porn, offer him a solution. This makes the conversation more positive and less prone to degenerate into a something less than constructive.

Talk about getting filter software. That will protect the kids as well as help keep him honest. Also, here is a link on this forum that has a list of many electronic resources that can help those who are struggling with this terrible vice. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=55427

If you can offer help and support rather than accusations, the chances of you solving this without recriminations will be much better. Also, by helping him to understand that you love and that you want to help him overcome this terrible affliction, he will what a truly faithful wife you really desire to be. And that is something that he will reciprocate.

Now remember, he may fall again, so you must help him without recrimination. Your positive support and forgiveness, and firm, but loving, determination to help him to cease this will ultimately make your marriage even more strong when he finally is able to be free of this addiction.
 
Well, in the first post, you mentioned that, when the problems started, you didn’t want to make love very often because you were afraid of getting pregnant again. (You were practicing an extremely conservative form of NFP)

It’s possible that this made him feel ignored, which sparked his subsequent behavior. So, that issue might have been the “root cause”.

I just looked at the other thread that you started, and I noticed that your husband is having issues with masturbation. I don’t want to embarrass you by bringing this up, but it seems like a relevant piece of information that might explain his behavior.

I can’t really give you any good advice (I’m not even married myself), but these are my thoughts. PM can help you – I think his wife was dealing with a situation similar to yours.
PM,

What kinds of things might be the root cause? It would help to get a guy’s point of view because from my vantage point, I’m way too emotional about this to reason this out on my own.

I missed my nursing clinical today because I am feeling SO LOW. I don’t want this filth intruding on my marriage. I don’t want it in my house. I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t love me the way he promised to. Is a man who looks at porn more inclined to cheat “in real life”?

PM, thanks for your response. Maybe you can help shed a little more light for me.

Kittery
 
PM,

What kinds of things might be the root cause? It would help to get a guy’s point of view because from my vantage point, I’m way too emotional about this to reason this out on my own.

I missed my nursing clinical today because I am feeling SO LOW. I don’t want this filth intruding on my marriage. I don’t want it in my house. I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t love me the way he promised to. Is a man who looks at porn more inclined to cheat “in real life”?

PM, thanks for your response. Maybe you can help shed a little more light for me.

Kittery
I can only speak from personal experience.
For me the root cause of indulging in porn and masturbation would certainly be lack of intimacy. I felt so lonely inside when my wife didn’t reciprocate my advances that after trying for a time I felt very neglected. That feelings stewed in me for a while and after a time, when temptation hit, it strengthened these feelings of loneliness and I sought pornography out as a release as well as a way to feel accepted.
Of course afterwards I felt really ****** and dirty and was almost literally running to confession.

So, once the lack of intimacy was addressed for me, it went better. And by addressed, it does not mean that we are having sex on a regular basis, not by any means. But we did sit down and discuss it. It took quite a few tries and a few nights, some nights the chat was very informal, other nights it was intense, but at least we spoke about it.

See, for me (and most guys) love is shown through physical intimacy (sex). Women get their intimacy from lots of things, massages, hugs, snuggles, flowers, etc, but for guys it’s mostly through sex. It’s the best way that I can show my wife I love her. Unfortunately the pron industry thrives on exactly this point, so the battle for a guy to remain pure is very hard.

But now I understand it. for us the real issue turned out to be NFP. I’m sorry all ya pro-NFP people, but it’s the truth. Broken down to it’s simplest form, here is the issue.
When using NFP to aviod conception, one cannot be intimate during the fertile cycle of the female, right? For us the days that are 100% safe are few and far between, my wife’s cycle is very weird.
Also, females are made that they are much more amorous when they are fertile, and very much not so when they are not fertile. So, every time my wife wanted to, we couldn’t since she was fertile. And every other time, when she was not fertile, it took extreme efforts from her part to actually get in the mood, and to reciprocate my advances. Throw a tough day for my wife into the mix and you will almost always see her turn me down. Once I understood that it was not my wife per se, but they way she felt as a result of timing, I understood the situation and the cause and I could get past the feelings of rejection and loneliness easier. I could reason it out in my mind. I could justify it and I was able to not blame my wife for the lack of intimacy, but more understand why.

As for your question about real life cheating, again, from personal experience, I would never cheat on my wife in real life if I could help it. I love my wife dearly and always will. Just because I’m not getting physical love from my wife, does not mean that I’m going to start chatting up a girl I meet on the street.
“Never say never” is true, but honestly, even after three years of very little sex, I have no desire to cheat on my wife. I love her.

No doubt you are feeling low, and I don’t blame you. It’s not pleasant to find this out about your husband. I really feel sorry for you and upset at your husband…just like I’m upset at myself every time I stumble.
I hope he turns to the Sacrament of Confession each time he stumbles.

I also understand that you don’t want that filth in your house. No one does. Your husband needs to change from the heart. He needs to understand that you love him dearly and he needs to understand the reasons that you can’t be intimate with him. If he really listens to you and hears you, he will understand that you love him very much. He needs to know that and he needs to know why you two are not being intimate.
He needs to step up and change again. He may be in a habit of turning to porn if he gets turned down, so he’ll need to break that though pattern quickly. It’s a very easy one to get stuck in, and that leads to addiction. That’s the danger. Have him IM me if he wants to, I’ve been there! 🙂

Try to get him sleeping in your bed again too.

I hope all my rambling made sense?
Please also understand that I’m not trying to defend your husband by any means, what he does is wrong, but hopefully my personal history could give you some insight and help in your life?

Let me know if I can help any more.

PM
 
Rather than “confront” him about his viewing porn, offer him a solution. This makes the conversation more positive and less prone to degenerate into a something less than constructive.

Talk about getting filter software. That will protect the kids as well as help keep him honest. Also, here is a link on this forum that has a list of many electronic resources that can help those who are struggling with this terrible vice. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=55427

If you can offer help and support rather than accusations, the chances of you solving this without recriminations will be much better. Also, by helping him to understand that you love and that you want to help him overcome this terrible affliction, he will what a truly faithful wife you really desire to be. And that is something that he will reciprocate.

Now remember, he may fall again, so you must help him without recrimination. Your positive support and forgiveness, and firm, but loving, determination to help him to cease this will ultimately make your marriage even more strong when he finally is able to be free of this addiction.
Good advice 🙂
 
PM,

Thank you for your insight. You have been very helpful and I appreciate your openness. My lack of self-esteem these days makes it hard for me to even think my husband misses our intimacy. And after the birth of our second baby, I went into hyper-conservative mode with the NFP.

Over the summer, I posted about our own difficulties with NFP and your posts back then helped me tremendously. It’s helped that you were so honest about what a trial NFP is for you. I get angry at NFP almost every month when I’m in my fertile phase not only because that’s when I’m in the mood, but also because I feel like the closeness that sex brings would help mend our relationship. I’m not saying that sex would fix everything, but that sex in not one-dimensional (as in only procreative). Sex is also supposed to be unitive. So back when we were having marital relations on a more regular basis, it was during the part of my cycle that I didn’t feel like it so much. I feel cheated by that. Then when I’ve been pregnant and the sky’s the limit, the hormones really make me not feel like it.

I feel like NFP has changed me as a person, and not in a good way. I’m fearful and anxious about sex because emotionally, I’m nowhere near ready for a third child. I remember that your wife had decided that relations would be out of the question after this birth, and I knew the feelings she was having. And yet It’s so tough on a marriage, especially when childcare takes so much time out of a relationship with each other, and still the unitive aspect of sex is unavailable when the wife is most agreeable. Have your feelings on NFP evolved at all? Or are you still in the same place?

Thank you again, PM. You have offered much needed advice and encouragement. I think I may understand some of his needs better. But clearly, we need to work on our communication and our sleeping arrangements, as well as the manifestations that the lack of the former two have produced.

Kittery
 
At the Divine Level, Marriage is a gift from our Lord, one of many things that separate us from the other mammals on the planet. This is a truth, no matter what the morons say in the commercial media. The Church made Holy Matrimony a Sacrament continuing to make Marriage a Sacred gift from God. Human Sexuality is also part of that sacred gift from God, as a major part of Marriage. I often ask myself, “Is the day to day sacrifices, work and even sexual relationship” “something I have to do” or is it “something I get to do” as part of this Blessed Marriage.

At the human level, marriage is a man and a women coming together to give of themselves. When one spouse consistently and repeatedly chooses not to give of themselves, that is the person who owns the unraveling and destruction of the marriage. That is the person were the apologies should start from.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go to work to earn a living, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and take you out to get something to eat on Fri. or Sat. night, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

You always see women with husbands in tow, shopping in the ladies or children’s stores/Dept’s. Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go shopping with you, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

The list could go on forever. A man, husband, father gets up every day without complaining, about sleep, ailments or their feeeeeeeeelings and does things almost automatically. If you want to be single and childless then go for it. If you want to be married then make that a priority and don’t just give your marriage the left over time from the day. Yet there are exceptions too, like school or being out of town on business, etc.
 
PM,

Thank you for your insight. You have been very helpful and I appreciate your openness. My lack of self-esteem these days makes it hard for me to even think my husband misses our intimacy. And after the birth of our second baby, I went into hyper-conservative mode with the NFP.

Over the summer, I posted about our own difficulties with NFP and your posts back then helped me tremendously. It’s helped that you were so honest about what a trial NFP is for you. I get angry at NFP almost every month when I’m in my fertile phase not only because that’s when I’m in the mood, but also because I feel like the closeness that sex brings would help mend our relationship. I’m not saying that sex would fix everything, but that sex in not one-dimensional (as in only procreative). Sex is also supposed to be unitive. So back when we were having marital relations on a more regular basis, it was during the part of my cycle that I didn’t feel like it so much. I feel cheated by that. Then when I’ve been pregnant and the sky’s the limit, the hormones really make me not feel like it.

I feel like NFP has changed me as a person, and not in a good way. I’m fearful and anxious about sex because emotionally, I’m nowhere near ready for a third child. I remember that your wife had decided that relations would be out of the question after this birth, and I knew the feelings she was having. And yet It’s so tough on a marriage, especially when childcare takes so much time out of a relationship with each other, and still the unitive aspect of sex is unavailable when the wife is most agreeable. Have your feelings on NFP evolved at all? Or are you still in the same place?

Thank you again, PM. You have offered much needed advice and encouragement. I think I may understand some of his needs better. But clearly, we need to work on our communication and our sleeping arrangements, as well as the manifestations that the lack of the former two have produced.

Kittery
Firstly, thank you also for your honesty, I really appreciate that, it helps me to realise that there are lots of us that struggling with NFP.

I totally get what you are saying about the dimensions of sex. I have been saying the same thing. Sex is procreative AND unitive and sometimes the unitive aspect can be overlooked, especially since the procreative side has been scrutinized to death with the whole NFP vs. ABC debate. It tends to push the unitive aspect aside. And that is exactly what brings a married couple closer, what unites them, if you will 🙂
It’s the ultimate form of expressing your love for your spouse and the only way to pledge yourself to your spouse again, as you did on your wedding day. You renew your vows each time you engage in intimacy with your spouse.

That is the crux of my struggles with NFP. It seems so focused on “not conceiving”, and you have to be so specific, to the Nth degree with practicing NFP, that it totally usurps the unitive aspect of sex. And, btw, even being super careful with it, it still failed us. But that’s another thread 🙂

People also told me that when my wife got pregnant, things will get much better since NFP is a non-issue during pregnancy…but with all the hormones and her complications, the frequency has actually decreased.

So, to get to your question, my feelings towards NFP has not changed at all, but it has evolved over my time as a Catholic.
Well, if I can bore you a bit, I’ll chronicle my life with NFP and some of my thoughts and feelings on it. (I may repeat some things from previous posts, but maybe this will help?)

I remembered that when I converted (4 years now), it was a big issue for me, I was concerned about NFP, it’s effectiveness and it’s effects on our marriage. But no one was available to really discuss the pros and cons of it…

I started out by being really apprehensive about it.
Then I had my mind changed by the NFP coaches and all their statistics. (not accurate, it turns out)

All went fine for a while, especially since we used it to conceive our first child. Before then, we were so new at it, that the charting and all that goes with that kind of took up all the focus, and it was such a new thing for us. But I did notice the frequency dropping even then.

We lost our first baby at 10 weeks.

Continued on next post…
 
After the recovery period (for both of us) we started trying again.

When my wife got pregnant, the complications set in and there was not much intimacy to be had.
Intimacy got progressively less after the birth of our first one, then the issues of day to day living with NFP came through. That started me realising fully how seldom we were intimate.
Of course, at first I didn’t realise the root was in NFP, we had a new baby, our first, and the added stresses of parenthood obscured the issue. All I knew was that we only made love approx once every month or two, and that my wife kept on shunning my advances, when clearly the time was right according to the charts. (She has some other complications that make the windows op opportunity very small each month)

That started me on a road of mild depression. I took some natural mood lifters to be able to cope with all these feelings I was feeling. Neglect, loneliness, etc.
As you maybe know, my wife is not the healthiest, so I tend to do a LOT of housework and baby-care after I get home from the office (High stress job).
Sooo, this is where I started coming to CAF asking very broadly why I’m not having sex with my wife and hopeing someone had some answers for me. As some folks here can attest, it was not a pretty time in my life. And in some ways I still haven’t fully recovered from that yet, but I’m much better now.
Basically I didn’t understand why this was happening and at the same time I was concerned about what would happen if I fall. I didn’t want to commit mortal sin, but with that kind of history with intimacy and emotional turmoil, it was of course just a matter of time before I stumbled.
Now, if my wife had checked the PC at that time, she could very well have posted your exact same words.
That was a rocky road for me. I started feeling very tempted by pretty much anything that showed any skin, and started looking for alternate solutions. (Maybe TMI here to follow)…
I reasoned that it would be better for me to masturbate before these temptations became too overwhelming, to stop myself from falling into pornography and lust. I reasoned that if I could get rid of the purely sexual urges before they became overpowering, it may be less of a sin.

Basically, let me say that I didn’t like where and who I was for a while, and every time I fell I loathed myself. I tried to get to confession the next morning after each fall.
See, what masturbation did was take away the sexual urges, but it did not, and cannot ever, relieve the emotional urges I was feeling. The yearning for love, acceptance and intimacy is only available one place…my wife.
I was not interested in an affair, I still loved (and still do) my wife above all else and didn’t want to hurt her. But the emotional yearning inside kept me feeling down and unhappy and frustrated.

So, when did the turning point come to me? When I found other posters here talking about their dislike for NFP and what it has done to their marriages. That made me evaluate my own marriage and realise that I could see that in mine too.
I spoke to my wife about it, over the course of a few weeks actually, not blaming her for the lack of sex, but finding out her feelings on it, how she felt and what she thought, and then one night we spoke about NFP and sort of looked at our history with NFP together, from a couple’s point of view, and realised that the pattern that was established made my wife totally turned off at the only times that we could be intimate.

The knowledge that I gained from this conclusion helped me tremendously. It made me understand that my wife is not doing this out of spite, it’s not that she doesn’t find me attractive, it was all due to our experiences with NFP and the intimacy routine that it established in our lives.

Now…what do I do with this knowledge? It helps me when temptation hits. Between that and me reminding myself of how bad I feel right after I fell, it’s been keeping me at bay. Praise God.

And moving forward? That I do not know. I know that our next one is due pretty soon and I understand that intimacy will continue to not be a big issue for a while after the birth, what with recovery and caring for a new baby and all…but once things settle down…I really shudder to think that we will have to fall into that old routine again. At least I understand it and it’s issues, but it’s not something I look forward to by any means.
It’s the proverbial wet blanket on our marriage. And my wife and I both agree on that.

Phew, well, that’s my story. I hope it helped shed some light?

Feel free to let me know if you have questions.

Have a lovely day and a great weekend!
PM
 
At the Divine Level, Marriage is a gift from our Lord, one of many things that separate us from the other mammals on the planet. This is a truth, no matter what the morons say in the commercial media. The Church made Holy Matrimony a Sacrament continuing to make Marriage a Sacred gift from God. Human Sexuality is also part of that sacred gift from God, as a major part of Marriage. I often ask myself, “Is the day to day sacrifices, work and even sexual relationship” “something I have to do” or is it “something I get to do” as part of this Blessed Marriage.

At the human level, marriage is a man and a women coming together to give of themselves. When one spouse consistently and repeatedly chooses not to give of themselves, that is the person who owns the unraveling and destruction of the marriage. That is the person were the apologies should start from.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go to work to earn a living, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and take you out to get something to eat on Fri. or Sat. night, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

You always see women with husbands in tow, shopping in the ladies or children’s stores/Dept’s. Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go shopping with you, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

The list could go on forever. A man, husband, father gets up every day without complaining, about sleep, ailments or their feeeeeeeeelings and does things almost automatically. If you want to be single and childless then go for it. If you want to be married then make that a priority and don’t just give your marriage the left over time from the day. Yet there are exceptions too, like school or being out of town on business, etc.
It’s true that in marriage you have to commit 100% to it, but I don’t think that’s the issue here, especially not with the poster, quite the opposite.
The OP is very comitted to her marriage. It’s the reason why she is here…to seek help when she notices that thing are not gonig like they should.

Her soupse is showing some signs that make her worry and she is seeking advice.
 
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