What is wrong with Unitarian Universalism?

[Sufjon]

Snicker out loud. My own made-up CAFs acronym

Hi PR Merger: That acronym is already taken. Usually pertaining to being out of luck.

Your friend
Syfjon

 

[PRmerger]

Hi PR Merger: That acronym is already taken. Usually pertaining to being out of luck.

Your friend
Syfjon

In the American internet lexicon (and, actually, outside the realm of the internet as well), there is no such thing as an acronym being “already taken”, Sufjon.

For example, I just did a search on an acronym used by my friend CMatt, that of SDA. In his context he meant “Seventh Day Adventists”, but if you see this search, SDA can mean lots of other things.

google.com/search?q=acronym+sda&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

Just for fun I did a search for SOL and found this:

google.com/search?q=acronym+sda&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=FOn&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=acronym+sol&pbx=1&oq=acronym+sol&aq=f&aqi=g5&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3429l5162l0l5667l6l6l1l0l0l1l461l1659l2-3.0.2l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fe4d51c11f0a28fa&biw=1143&bih=619

As far as I know, I’m free to use my own here on the CAFs–and I like to use it when I’ve snickered out loud.

 

[PRmerger]

I didn’t say in that case they would necesarily be guided by the Holy Spirit.

Fair enough. So you believe those who proclaim that the pope is the anti-Christ may not necessarily be guided by the Holy Spirit. But then again, they might be?

Are you really uncertain about this?

 

[CMatt25]

Fair enough. So you believe those who proclaim that the pope is the anti-Christ may not necessarily be guided by the Holy Spirit. But then again, they might be?

Are you really uncertain about this?

IMHO and belief system no I don’t believe the Holy Spirit is telling them that. But that is IMHO and belief. They might believe differently than you and I.

 

[PRmerger]

IMHO and belief system no I don’t believe the Holy Spirit is telling them that. But that is IMHO and belief. They might believe differently than you and I.

Of course they “believe differently”!

And that’s just it. Both of you can’t be right. Both of you can’t be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

So, if you believe what you believe, then you, by necessity, believe that those who posit that the pope is the anti-Christ are* wrong.*

Are we agreed?

 

[Birdpreacher]

Downside of Universalism: If everybodies right than everybodies wrong.

Thats the thing about mutually exclusive faiths, you can’t have them co-exist nicely without watering down to a degree which contradicts their Holy books.

Besides where’s the fun in being Unitarian, we Catholics are hedging all our bets that our ancient scribblings and millennia of interpretation by error prone humans are the one true way to eternal life. This narrow minded view of salvation history makes the approaching death much more tolerable, since we dont have to worry about alternative theologies (that is unless the first person to greet us after death is Buddha)

 

[CMatt25]

Of course they “believe differently”!

And that’s just it. Both of you can’t be right. Both of you can’t be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

So, if you believe what you believe, then you, by necessity, believe that those who posit that the pope is the anti-Christ are* wrong.*

Are we agreed?

PR, my friend, what we believe about the Pope not being the anti Christ was never in disagreement to begin with.

 

[cheese_sdc]

The one thing that gets me about it is that there can’t be more than one Truth. That is the one thing I have against it.

I’m a convert to the Unitarian Universalist Church, from Catholicism.

Instead of looking at “Truth” as a zero sum game (Someone is Right, and Everyone else is Wrong), trying looking at it in this way:

a) Divinity is infinite.
b) Religion is an attempt to define the indefinable (make the infinite finite) so that finite people can grasp It.
c) Religions are all shaped by the cultures, history, and geography of the people that made it.
d) Most (I hesitate to say “all”) Religions contain some Truth.

(All of the above can be found in the “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions”. Read it. It’ll change your paradigm.)

I think that the Unitarian Universalists recognize this and search for the Truth in all religions. To be sure, it must be done with maturity and thoughtfulness, but it can be very rewarding.

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m a convert to the Unitarian Universalist Church, from Catholicism.

Instead of looking at “Truth” as a zero sum game (Someone is Right, and Everyone else is Wrong), trying looking at it in this way:

a) Divinity is infinite.
b) Religion is an attempt to define the indefinable (make the infinite finite) so that finite people can grasp It.
c) Religions are all shaped by the cultures, history, and geography of the people that made it.
d) Most (I hesitate to say “all”) Religions contain some Truth.

(All of the above can be found in the “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions”. Read it. It’ll change your paradigm.)

I think that the Unitarian Universalists recognize this and search for the Truth in all religions. To be sure, it must be done with maturity and thoughtfulness, but it can be very rewarding.

I cannot agree with your proposition or your thinking. The Bible that is used to provide us support of our beliefs, combined with Sacred Tradition and the teaching of the Magesterium concludes you are wrong.

It is not religions that contain truth. It is the Church. God makes it clear that we can know, understand, see the infinite just by looking in the world. God holds us accountable for not grasping it.

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. As you say the infinite. The infinite makes known to us things we are to know through the Church, a mystery. Mysteries are hard to grasp.

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Not all religions contain truths. All religions look to seek God and discover some things as expressed by looking in the world. It is not the religion that holds the truth, rather the Church. The pillar and foundation of some truths? By no means! For to the Church were given the utterance of Scripture, the Church how God would reconcile the world to himself so that not just Jews but Gentiles could by reconciled. The pillar and foundation of Truth.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Does the Unitarian Church you go to read the bible?

 

[CMatt25]

I cannot agree with your proposition or your thinking. The Bible that is used to provide us support of our beliefs, combined with Sacred Tradition and the teaching of the Magesterium concludes you are wrong.

It is not religions that contain truth. It is the Church.

Only if one places faith and belief in the Bible and in the interpretation of it and tradition by the Catholic Church. This is where the whole concept of knowing revealed Truth with 100% absolute certainty falls apart. It takes faith and belief to think you “know”.

 

[Credendum]

I used to attend a Unitarian Universalist church, and their understanding is that all beliefs are valid for each individual. In other words, to each his own. The problem with UU is that they exhibit a false compassion for what God clearly says is sin, such as homosexuality and atheism. It’s a “safe” place for people who do not repent.

 

[Jimmy_B]

You’ve already found it. There is only one Truth, Christ only instituted one Church. To go to any other church is to reject the full Truth of Christ. They reject the Trinity and reject the divinity of Christ. How can any other denomination even begin to compare to the True Church, founded by Christ Himself?

 

[CopticChristian]

Only if one places faith and belief in the Bible and in the interpretation of it and tradition by the Catholic Church. This is where the whole concept of knowing revealed Truth with 100% absolute certainty falls apart. It takes faith and belief to think you “know”.

“our beliefs” compared with your beliefs are contrary. Thank you.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I used to attend a Unitarian Universalist church, and their understanding is that all beliefs are valid for each individual. In other words, to each his own. The problem with UU is that they exhibit a false compassion for what God clearly says is sin, such as homosexuality and atheism. It’s a “safe” place for people who do not repent.

Based on what I’ve learned about his, I agree. I once attended a wedding at a Unitarian Universalist Church… I really didn’t want to go but it was one of my wife’s relatives, so I was forced to attend. When I first arrived, I noticed that in the stained-glass windows that surrounded the “church”, there were symbols of just about every religion, including Roman Catholic symbols. I spoke with the lady minister after the ceremony and found that she had some very bizarre notions regarding Catholicism. When I ask her what it was that they believed in, I received a very convoluted and confusing answer. My impression, based on her response, was that it was all religions and yet no religion. Basically, whatever your beliefs are, are what they believe, unless that’s is, of course you’re a Catholic, then everything you believe is “wrong”. However, when I asked her what she knew about Catholicism, I discovered that she didn’t really know anything about Catholicism… just the worse, false, Protestant, anti-Catholic stuff that we see here, from time to time. So, in other words, it’s ok to have any belief, as long as it’s not a Catholic belief… a very strange experience indeed.

 

[CMatt25]

“our beliefs” compared with your beliefs are contrary. Thank you.

You’re welcome.

 

[1voice]

…which is why I’m not UU. Are U UU?

Yo Yo bro … No no no Im not UU … Im with U too. UU has issUes.

 

[cheese_sdc]

I cannot agree with your proposition or your thinking.

I don’t mind at all. I would encourage you to read the Declaration of the Church to Non-Christian Religions. It really is a profound document.

It is not religions that contain truth. It is the Church.

Actually, I’d say that people contain Truth. Religion is how Truth is expressed.

God makes it clear that we can know, understand, see the infinite just by looking in the world.

Exactly. But that understanding is shaped by culture, history, etc. which leads to differing understandings of that Universal Truth.

Does the Unitarian Church you go to read the bible?

Occasionally, and also from the Tao Te Ching, the Torah, the Koran, Tibetan Book of the Dead, etc.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Ave Maria

Instead of looking at “Truth” as a zero sum game (Someone is Right, and Everyone else is Wrong), trying looking at it in this way:

a) Divinity is infinite. True
b) Religion is an attempt to define the indefinable (make the infinite finite) so that finite people can grasp It. All religions outside the Church fall under this category. But God did not create us so that truth would not be revealed in fullness, it would contradict the nature of God being loving and just. God also would not create finite beings in such a limitation that they would never understand truth, this would also contradict the nature of God and the reason of creation.
c) Religions are all shaped by the cultures, history, and geography of the people that made it. Very true. All outside the Church were made like this which is why we thank our Lord Jesus Christ who made His Church upon St. Peter and kept safe by the Holy Spirit who guides the Magisterium in all truth. Men under their own power cannot do this alone.
d) Most (I hesitate to say “all”) Religions contain some Truth. I’d be careful saying all religion, for some religions worship evil, others commit human sacrifice, others do war to kill unbelievers, etc… But for other religions that follow a universal law of kindness contain some Truth, but God would not leave his children in such dismay that they would not have full Truth. He created us with intellect, rationality and wisdom and this nature desires the maximum of Truth. Such a desire does not exist per accidens but was willed to be per se, and this desire needs to be fed but the only way for it to be filled is for God to convey the fullness of Truth, or as much as corporeal finite beings can handle as their maximum. Therefore in order to not create confession (as is that is contrary to God as well, for he is the God of order), Truth must be conveyed singularly and fully to his children in a fashion that is befitting to Him and how our nature (intellect, rationality and wisdom) was created.

(All of the above can be found in the “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions”. Read it. It’ll change your paradigm.)

“It’ll change your paradigm” Hmm. Let us not open up our minds so much our brains will fall out. What is more fitting that a belief does not contradict the natural paradigm of the human being or a belief that forces the paradigm of the human being to change to not contradict it? You might say the natural paradigm of the human is selfless or prideful, but this line of thinking would pose problems with the fact that humans have always, natural, progressed to a higher standard of mind and environment, observe the ancient Greek philosophers and their culture. It is Truth that we must always assent to, very true, but as we are created in His image and likeness and participate in His goodness, it is more sensible for our nature and Truth to be fluent rather then uncertain and contrary.

I suggest you read some GK. Chesterton, he might be the challenge that you were looking for.

Pax

 

[Jimmy_B]

I don’t mind at all. I would encourage you to read the Declaration of the Church to Non-Christian Religions. It really is a profound document.

Actually, I’d say that people contain Truth. Religion is how Truth is expressed.

Exactly. But that understanding is shaped by culture, history, etc. which leads to differing understandings of that Universal Truth.

Occasionally, and also from the Tao Te Ching, the Torah, the Koran, Tibetan Book of the Dead, etc.

One can’t believe in everything and still believe in something.

 

[PRmerger]

PR, my friend, what we believe about the Pope not being the anti Christ was never in disagreement to begin with.

Oh, but it is. There’s millions of folks who claim that the Holy Spirit inspired them to proclaim this. Did you not see the website I cited? It’s only one of many.

The fact is: you propose he is not the anti-Christ. Someone else proposes he is. In your paradigm you this truth cannot be apprehended. Both you and this other guy just have to go around wondering who is right.

This is certainly the recipe for chaos and confusion. And God is not the author of chaos and confusion. But there is another Author of that, isn’t there?