what is your belief about pro-life?

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Verita said:
So, just to clarify, it seems you do not believe that people are responsible for their actions and their choices?
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Quite the opposite – I believe we are supremely responsible, and that we can’t pass the buck on to any deity or devil if such exist.

As to the ‘life of the mother’ exception, I believe the Church invokes double effect for those, or at least some instances (such as ectopic pregnancies, where the fetus implants in the fallopian tubes). Surgery then is performed to save the mother, and as the primary goal is not the abortion of the fetus the Church considers it morally acceptable.
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rr1213:
But isn’t this the important question? If the fetus is merely a fleshy appendage, then what business is it of the State to forbid the woman an abortion? On the other hand, if the fetus is a child–a human being living in her mother’s womb–then the State certainly has a right to protect that life, just as it acts to protect other lives. It seems that even under your understanding of the matter the State would have the right (and some, including me, would argue the obligation) to protect the fetus at least at the point it reaches viability outside of the womb.
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This is getting a little too close to argument territory.
 
Hi,

I use to believe in pro-choice before I became a believer. I am now pro-life.😃

RR’s statement might throw me a little though.😦
 
I believe in life! From conception until natural death.
Period. No exceptions.
 
Mirdath said:
Quite the opposite – I believe we are supremely responsible, and that we can’t pass the buck on to any deity or devil if such exist.
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Yet people who get themselves pregnant aren’t responsible for that action if they are not in an optimum state of maturity, economy or readiness for parenthood?

And those who have committed horrible crimes against humanity are not responsible for what they have done?
 
The Catholic Church does NOT teach that a woman must choose death for herself in order to allow her unborn child to live.

The Church does NOT teach that abortion is necessary to save the mother.

But it DOES teach that a woman should be treated to save her life. There are often other children who will be left motherless if their mother dies in childbirth. Also, a husband will be left without his wife.

If in the course of the treatment to save the mother’s life, the unborn child dies, then no sin has been committed, no evil has been done.

An example of this would be an ectopic pregnancy. This condition will kill a woman, painfully. So the condition is treated so as to save the life of the woman. he unborn baby will very likly die, but not necessarily. The baby has not been deliberately killed to save the woman.

I think it is worth mentioning that conditions that threaten the mother’s life are extremely rare. Pregnancy is a natural, safe process for most women and usually is not life-threatening.
 
Verita said:
Yet people who get themselves pregnant aren’t responsible for that action if they are not in an optimum state of maturity, economy or readiness for parenthood?

And those who have committed horrible crimes against humanity are not responsible for what they have done?
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Last I checked, getting pregnant requires more than one person. In any case, this thread is for presenting and explaining beliefs, not defending them. Please stop trying to drag me into an argument here – if you really want it that much, start your own thread.
 
after all, it’s sustaining itself on her body and is completely dependent on her. We don’t even grant children full rights once they’re out of the womb; to me, this follows naturally.

The most beatiful arguement I’ve ever heard for pro-life is simply, “This is My Body, which is given up for you.”

Case closed.
 
exiled said:
after all, it’s sustaining itself on her body and is completely dependent on her. We don’t even grant children full rights once they’re out of the womb; to me, this follows naturally.

The most beatiful arguement I’ve ever heard for pro-life is simply, “This is My Body, which is given up for you.”

Case closed.
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Are you going to present your point of view or try to make me defend mine? I’ve already said I’m not going to do that – it isn’t the purpose of this thread.
 
rr1213 said:
Or, to make it more compelling, let me propose a different circumstance. Your wife is pregnant. You are told by the doctor, after numerous confirming tests, that to give birth will kill your wife and your unborn son. Yet, there is a short period of time–now–where you can abort the baby and save your wife. So, what’s the case?
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Been there done that…lived to tell…so did my son, unfortunately his twin sister didn’t make it. I was told I wouldn’t survive, and by all accounts I shouldn’t have. But I did. So here I walk amid the living…by the Grace of God.

I can honestly say I know what I would choose, because I did have to make that choice. I spent 6 months in bed and the next full year in mourning, but I would do it again if it were God’s will. He is the author of life. Without him none of us would be here. Each and every child is a gift from God. How then can we destroy such a precious gift?

When my doctor told me one or both of us wouldn’t survive, I didn’t have to think about it. My baby deserved a chance. I refused the abortion, I refused the amniocentesis but I consented to the weekly blood tests and daily monitoring and the weekly ultrasounds. I did what I had to for my baby, even when I just wanted to shower (was only allowed up 2x per week to shower). I learned to eat laying down, and trust me, it isn’t as easy as it sounds! When I was about 5 months pregnant we lost the one baby and everything went really bad for a while. My blood tests all came back so bad they were sure I was going to die soon. I even had all the signs of being near death including the whites of my eyes all turning solid red. They talked to my husband about possibly having the courts decide for me or sending in a shrink to declare me unable to decide for myself. Then after a deal with the doctor to change my diet (at my insistence) I started to get better. When I was 7 1/2-8 months they wanted to fly me to a hospital with a neonatal intensive care unit, but the trip could kill the baby, so I refused.

I had my baby with my regular OB doctor. After the birth she said to me, “I don’t know why I don’t just listen to you. You are always right about how things are going to work out.” This was in reference to me refusing the d&c, refusing the amnio, refusing to be shipped to another hospital, making her honor a deal we made about changing my diet, etc.

All those around me were witness to a miracle and none were more surprised than my doctors. That was God’s plan, not mine. Had I aborted, God’s work wouldn’t have been done the same way he had planned.
 
Mirdath said:
Are you going to present your point of view or try to make me defend mine? I’ve already said I’m not going to do that – it isn’t the purpose of this thread.
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My point of view is stated in my post. It sums it up perfectly but I’ll humor you.
We are *not *here for ourselves, we are here to serve God and others. This life is our *exile * from Paradise, and we are meant to be tried here. (although it is a very pleasant exile, which just further proves God’s infinite goodness) If you do not share Christianity that is fine, but to suggest an unborn baby is nothing more than a parasite is sickening. A parasite is not loved, and a parasite does not eventually become something else.
I did not ask you to defend your position, I simply pointed out the juxtaposition between that particular statement you made, and the love and self-sacrifice of God the Son.
 
BlestOne said:
Been there done that…lived to tell…so did my son, unfortunately his twin sister didn’t make it. I was told I wouldn’t survive, and by all accounts I shouldn’t have. But I did. So here I walk amid the living…by the Grace of God.

I can honestly say I know what I would choose, because I did have to make that choice. I spent 6 months in bed and the next full year in mourning, but I would do it again if it were God’s will. He is the author of life. Without him none of us would be here. Each and every child is a gift from God. How then can we destroy such a precious gift?

When my doctor told me one or both of us wouldn’t survive, I didn’t have to think about it. My baby deserved a chance. I refused the abortion, I refused the amniocentesis but I consented to the weekly blood tests and daily monitoring and the weekly ultrasounds. I did what I had to for my baby, even when I just wanted to shower (was only allowed up 2x per week to shower). I learned to eat laying down, and trust me, it isn’t as easy as it sounds! When I was about 5 months pregnant we lost the one baby and everything went really bad for a while. My blood tests all came back so bad they were sure I was going to die soon. I even had all the signs of being near death including the whites of my eyes all turning solid red. They talked to my husband about possibly having the courts decide for me or sending in a shrink to declare me unable to decide for myself. Then after a deal with the doctor to change my diet (at my insistence) I started to get better. When I was 7 1/2-8 months they wanted to fly me to a hospital with a neonatal intensive care unit, but the trip could kill the baby, so I refused.

I had my baby with my regular OB doctor. After the birth she said to me, “I don’t know why I don’t just listen to you. You are always right about how things are going to work out.” This was in reference to me refusing the d&c, refusing the amnio, refusing to be shipped to another hospital, making her honor a deal we made about changing my diet, etc.

All those around me were witness to a miracle and none were more surprised than my doctors. That was God’s plan, not mine. Had I aborted, God’s work wouldn’t have been done the same way he had planned.
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What a difficult choice to have to make. I am glad that it worked out for you and your son, although I am sorry to hear about your daughter. Thank you for sharing this.
 
water said:
Thanks rr1213. I don’t support Capital purnishment. If someone can live another day, there is a chance that he/she turns to God.
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Here’s another thought on that: A continued life in prison, indefinitely long, might actually REDUCE the chances that someone turns to God in repentance. As Samuel Johnson put it, the prospect of imminent execution tends to concentrate the mind amazingly well.

By the way (regarding another post from another person): What is a “proto-human”? And if someone presents any kind of argument against this position, does that immediately turn the discussion into an “incredibly ugly catfight”?
 
cpayne said:
By the way (regarding another post from another person): What is a “proto-human”?
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I believe humanity isn’t so much a state as it is a never-ending journey, one that begins at birth.
And if someone presents any kind of argument against this position, does that immediately turn the discussion into an “incredibly ugly catfight”?
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It’s had that effect before. This thread isn’t for arguing viewpoints. Stop trying.
 
“All life is sacred from conception till natural death” no compromises.
 
Dear Folks on this thread: Actually, the original post on this thread said, “Do you support life? Could you prove that?” Sounds like an invitation to rational argumentation to me. However, no skin off my nose–believe what you want to believe. Over and out, and may God’s richest blessings be yours today.
 
cpayne said:
Dear Folks on this thread: Actually, the original post on this thread said, “Do you support life? Could you prove that?” Sounds like an invitation to rational argumentation to me. However, no skin off my nose–believe what you want to believe. Over and out, and may God’s richest blessings be yours today.
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I thought I did… see post #30
 
Mirdath said:
I believe abortion is an ugly necessity – that as long as childbearing depends on the use of a human being as a host for gestation it’s going to happen, whether for reasons of health, financial state, maturity, or readiness for parenthood. I believe that the rights and even the wants of the mother are more important than the rights of the fetus – after all, it’s sustaining itself on her body and is completely dependent on her. We don’t even grant children full rights once they’re out of the womb; to me, this follows naturally.
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Just curious, Mirdath. Do you know the process involved in what is known as partial birth abortion?

Charlye
 
cpayne said:
Here’s another thought on that: A continued life in prison, indefinitely long, might actually REDUCE the chances that someone turns to God in repentance.
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What if the person does not have enough time to think about and repent? Get him killed?

God is mercy and patient. Why can’t we live and being patient with other sinners like us?
 
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