what is your belief about pro-life?

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awantz said:
You can think whatever you what, but I feel like you are trying to make me look like someone evil when I’m not. What have I done to affend you? I’d sure like to know. I am very strongly pro-life and it hurts/affends me that you would think anything else. You oviously don’t know me at all. Yet, you think you do.
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I’m not tattacking YOU persé - I’m attacking the silly argument about condom use. You haven’t offended me and my intent was not to offend you. You cannot say that you are staunchly pro-life if you believe in artificial contraception.
What you are is Anti-Abortion.
Claiming to be pro-life and supporting the use of artificial barriers to the will of God makes as much sense as saying that you believe in the sanctitiy of marriage, as long as you’re free to date other people.
Jesus said, “A good tree does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit.” I CANNOT and WILL not attempt to judge what is in your heart - that is only for you and God to know.
What I can do - and this scripture supports that notion - is to judge an action, deed or an idea - not the person.
If you say your are strongly pro-life you MUST be open to the will of God and not “dare” Him to “poke a hole” in the condom.
 
There can never be an advocacy of abortion under any circumstances
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well in most cases rules without exceptions become illogical, and I think the exception I am arguing for shows total respect for life, moreso than “pro-lifers”
 
rr1213 said:
Pro-Life, ok on contraception, pro-death penalty.
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What about hormonal contraception which is abortifacient in nature?..

Can contraception cause an early abortion?
The pill, Norplant, Depo-Provera, emergency contraception, the IUD - all of these chemical contraceptives have three basic modes of operation:
  • They can act to suppress ovulation (the release of an egg from the ovary). However, women can and do experience breakthrough ovulation, meaning that an egg is released and available to be fertilized.
  • They can cause the cervical mucus to thicken, making it difficult for the sperm to reach the egg. It is possible, though, for the sperm to break through the mucus and to fertilize the egg.
  • They can alter the lining of the uterus making it difficult, if not impossible, for the 7-9 day old developing baby to attach to the uterine lining, where it would receive the nourishment necessary for further development. The baby would then be expelled from the body during menstruation. This process is known as a chemical abortion and is why the pill is referred to as an abortifacient.
    Sources:
1999 Physicians Desk Reference
Planned Parenthood
A Consumer’s Guide to the Pill and other Drugs, by John Wilks, B. Pharm., M.P.S.

all.org/article.php?id=10217
 
rr1213 said:
Disagree with you there. In cases where the mother’s life is seriously…and honestly…threatened, then it is a case of choosing one life over another life. To choose the mother’s life would not be wrong (nor, for that matter, to choose the child’s life). Bear in mind though that this “loophole”–if honestly applied–would be miniscule, certainly less than 1% of all abortions.
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issues Pro-life urban legends

An urban legend is one of those stories that makes the rounds and develops a life of its own, even though it really isn’t true. There are a number of them that pop up from time to time on one side of the abortion debate or the other — and sometimes both. Here’s the real deal about a number of false statements:
 
TY for your propaganda soundbites PLAL - as for those of us in the real world who know about the actual medical issues, these are not in the slightest helpful. Continue to stir the troops if you desire tho:thumbsup:
 
Is abortion ever medically necessary?
Abortion is never necessary to save a mother’s life.

It is important to distinguish between direct abortion, which is the intentional and willed destruction of a preborn child, and a legitimate treatment a pregnant mother may choose to save her life. Operations that are performed to save the life of the mother-such as the removal of a cancerous uterus or an ectopic pregnancy that poses the threat of imminent death-are considered indirect abortions.

They are justified under a concept called the “principle of double effect.” Under this principle, the death of the child is an unintended effect of an operation independently justified by the necessity of saving the mother’s life.

Essentially, both mother and child should be treated as patients. A doctor should try to protect both. However, in the course of treating a woman, if her child dies, that is not considered abortion.

Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life of the mother.

-Alan Guttmacher, former Planned Parenthood president

all.org/article.php?id=10216&search=life%20of%20the%20mother
 
awantz said:
condoms
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Do Condoms Protect From AID’s?

Why is this?

Sperm have a diameter of 50 microns. Naturally occurring holes in the wall of a latex condom have a diameter of 1.0 microns. The HIV retrovirus which causes AIDS has a diameter of 0.1 microns. In effect, this would be comparing perhaps an ant crawling on a basketball. AIDS viruses swim freely through the holes in the condom. That is a fact that should be widely publicized. C.M. Roland, Editor, *Rubber Chemistry & Technology, *Washington Times, 4/22/92
http://www.abortionfacts.com/image/lovethemboth/chapter35_1.gif
Furthermore, a woman can only become pregnant for 2 to 4 days out of a 30-day month. She can catch AIDS 30 days out of a 30-day month. In addition, pregnancy only goes one way -AIDS can go both ways. He can infect her, but she can infect him.

abortionfacts.com/online_…venting%20AIDS?

------------

Also listen to Jason Everts talk online to Catholic High School students. Fast forward to 1 hour into the talk and you will get 12 minutes of unbelievable information on condoms and std’s.

pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=3
 
oh dear not this old chestnut again! AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
utter rubbish
 
PLAL said:
Is abortion ever medically necessary?
Abortion is never necessary to save a mother’s life.

It is important to distinguish between direct abortion, which is the intentional and willed destruction of a preborn child, and a legitimate treatment a pregnant mother may choose to save her life. Operations that are performed to save the life of the mother-such as the removal of a cancerous uterus or an ectopic pregnancy that poses the threat of imminent death-are considered indirect abortions.

They are justified under a concept called the “principle of double effect.” Under this principle, the death of the child is an unintended effect of an operation independently justified by the necessity of saving the mother’s life.

Essentially, both mother and child should be treated as patients. A doctor should try to protect both. However, in the course of treating a woman, if her child dies, that is not considered abortion.

Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life of the mother.

-Alan Guttmacher, former Planned Parenthood president

all.org/article.php?id=10216&search=life%20of%20the%20mother
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For those who wish to know the actual medical facts unskewed, like the facts that condoms don’t have holes in them for example, go elsewhere

this is exactly what I mean by the extreme fringes of the “pro-life” movement
any doctor repeating this fiction would lose all credibility with his/her peers

even this quote says “almost any”, thus making a passing acquaintance with reality
 
jack_hawkins said:
For those who wish to know the actual medical facts unskewed, like the facts that condoms don’t have holes in them for example, go elsewhere

this is exactly what I mean by the extreme fringes of the “pro-life” movement
any doctor repeating this fiction would lose all credibility with his/her peers

even this quote says “almost any”, thus making a passing acquaintance with reality
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So, where are these supposed “unskewed facts”, Jack?
From all of your posts on this thread the ONLY UN-skewed facts are the ones YOU happen to agree with.
You have been shown numerous statistics and studies - even studies from liberal Pro-choice sources such as the World health Organization yet you REFUSE to acknowledge that they have any basis in fact because YOU don’t like what they indicate.
In my life, the most virulently anti-life people I have spoken to were those who were themselves involved in an abortion or euthanasia or had a close loved one who was.
There is none so blind as he who REFUSES to see.
 
Hello,
jack_hawkins said:
well in most cases rules without exceptions become illogical, and I think the exception I am arguing for shows total respect for life, moreso than “pro-lifers”
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Divine mandates never have exceptions, unless a divine mandate provides them. Don’t worship false gods - no exceptions. Don’t blaspheme - no exceptions. Don’t murder (abortion is murder, plain and simple) - no exceptions.

Note: Accidental killing in self-defense is not murder. Murder is intentional and usually pre-meditated.
 
Kenya First Lady: Condom "is causing the spread of AIDS in this country."

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06052307.html

Philippine AIDS Rate Has Doubled Coinciding with Increase of Condom Use

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020308.html

Condoms: Fr. Euteneuer Open Letter to Melinda Gates…

You are using your high-profile position and extreme wealth to push condoms as a solution to this deadly disease, and that, quite frankly, is irresponsible.

If you are so sure of your position then please show us any actual success of the condom as a solution to the AIDS pandemic in the last quarter century – any.

Show us, Mrs. Gates, how the condom prevented the deaths of the twenty-five million people who died by the irrepressible furor of this disease—or the forty million who are presently living with the disease.

I’m sure that the majority of these people were told that the condom would keep them “safe,” only to be given a death sentence for their naive trust in that deception.

Show us the evidence that condoms have worked, Mrs. Gates.

You will have to contend with some heavy hitters like Kofi Annan who publicly admitted in June that the present approach to stopping AIDS ( i.e., the condom solution) has been an abject failure.

If your husband ran his business like the condom bosses have managed this disease, Microsoft wouldn’t exist and you would never have been given a platform in Toronto to advocate continued failure.

The only program that has shown dramatic and consistent success against this enemy is that of the government of Uganda which for twenty years has applied a humane, chastity-based message throughout its society geared to altering the disordered sexual behaviors that lead to the disease

In 1986, the prevalence rate of the disease in Uganda was about 30%; today it’s down to about 7% in the general population. This is real and verifiable success, not rhetoric or wishful thinking. The government of Uganda believes its people have the human capacity to change their risky behaviors. That’s the humanitarian message that needs Gates Foundation funding.

MORE…

hli.org/sl_2006-08-25.html

hli.org/sl_archives.html
 
PLAL said:
Kenya First Lady: Condom "is causing the spread of AIDS in this country."

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06052307.html

Philippine AIDS Rate Has Doubled Coinciding with Increase of Condom Use

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020308.html

Condoms: Fr. Euteneuer Open Letter to Melinda Gates…

You are using your high-profile position and extreme wealth to push condoms as a solution to this deadly disease, and that, quite frankly, is irresponsible.

If you are so sure of your position then please show us any actual success of the condom as a solution to the AIDS pandemic in the last quarter century – any.

Show us, Mrs. Gates, how the condom prevented the deaths of the twenty-five million people who died by the irrepressible furor of this disease—or the forty million who are presently living with the disease.

I’m sure that the majority of these people were told that the condom would keep them “safe,” only to be given a death sentence for their naive trust in that deception.

Show us the evidence that condoms have worked, Mrs. Gates.

You will have to contend with some heavy hitters like Kofi Annan who publicly admitted in June that the present approach to stopping AIDS ( i.e., the condom solution) has been an abject failure.

If your husband ran his business like the condom bosses have managed this disease, Microsoft wouldn’t exist and you would never have been given a platform in Toronto to advocate continued failure.

The only program that has shown dramatic and consistent success against this enemy is that of the government of Uganda which for twenty years has applied a humane, chastity-based message throughout its society geared to altering the disordered sexual behaviors that lead to the disease

In 1986, the prevalence rate of the disease in Uganda was about 30%; today it’s down to about 7% in the general population. This is real and verifiable success, not rhetoric or wishful thinking. The government of Uganda believes its people have the human capacity to change their risky behaviors. That’s the humanitarian message that needs Gates Foundation funding.

MORE…

hli.org/sl_2006-08-25.html

hli.org/sl_archives.html
Click to expand...
👍 :bowdown2: :amen:
 
elvisman said:
I’m not tattacking YOU persé - I’m attacking the silly argument about condom use. You haven’t offended me and my intent was not to offend you. You cannot say that you are staunchly pro-life if you believe in artificial contraception.
What you are is Anti-Abortion.
Claiming to be pro-life and supporting the use of artificial barriers to the will of God makes as much sense as saying that you believe in the sanctitiy of marriage, as long as you’re free to date other people.
Jesus said, “A good tree does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit.” I CANNOT and WILL not attempt to judge what is in your heart - that is only for you and God to know.
What I can do - and this scripture supports that notion - is to judge an action, deed or an idea - not the person.
If you say your are strongly pro-life you MUST be open to the will of God and not “dare” Him to “poke a hole” in the condom.
Click to expand...
I do not use condoms against the will of God. I am open to the will of God. I don’t dare God to do anything. You don’t even know when or why I use condoms. I’m using them off and on during my pregnancy to reduce the mess. I’m not using them to keep from getting pregnant.
 
PLAL said:
Do Condoms Protect From AID’s?

Why is this?

Sperm have a diameter of 50 microns. Naturally occurring holes in the wall of a latex condom have a diameter of 1.0 microns. The HIV retrovirus which causes AIDS has a diameter of 0.1 microns. In effect, this would be comparing perhaps an ant crawling on a basketball. AIDS viruses swim freely through the holes in the condom. That is a fact that should be widely publicized. C.M. Roland, Editor, *Rubber Chemistry & Technology, *Washington Times, 4/22/92
http://www.abortionfacts.com/image/lovethemboth/chapter35_1.gif
Furthermore, a woman can only become pregnant for 2 to 4 days out of a 30-day month. She can catch AIDS 30 days out of a 30-day month. In addition, pregnancy only goes one way -AIDS can go both ways. He can infect her, but she can infect him.

abortionfacts.com/online_…venting%20AIDS?

------------

Also listen to Jason Everts talk online to Catholic High School students. Fast forward to 1 hour into the talk and you will get 12 minutes of unbelievable information on condoms and std’s.

pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=3
Click to expand...
I know condoms do not protect against STDs. Someone would be crazy to use them for that reason.
 
Anti-Abortion

Okay with contraception (some people just shouldn’t have kids)

Pro-Death Penalty
 
awantz said:
I do not use condoms against the will of God. I am open to the will of God. I don’t dare God to do anything. You don’t even know when or why I use condoms. I’m using them off and on during my pregnancy to reduce the mess. I’m not using them to keep from getting pregnant.
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That is like saying, “I’m only going to trust God when it’s convenient, because I know better.”
You either trust in Almighty God or you don’t.
Look, you started your position by saying that if God wanted us to get pregnant, He would have put a hole in the condom. Now, you’re saying that a good use for them is to “reduce the mess”.
Face it – condoms and other artificial contraception are wrong because they put up barriers to the will of God. When a person uses contraception, they are attempting to block the will of God. Hence the term, “contra” (against) “ception” (short for “conception”)
This is why virtually EVERY Christian church condemned the use of artificial contraception until the Episcopalian Lambeth Conference in the early 1930’s. But, thanks to “pioneers” like Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood), the churches fell, one-by-one, to this evil doctrine until only the Catholic Church kept its stance.
Now – some Evangelical and Fundamental denominations are coming back to the truth and are steering away from this false doctrine – THANK GOD.
 
elvisman;2021805[COLOR=black said:
You either trust in Almighty God or you don’t.
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Face it – condoms and other artificial contraception are wrong because they put up barriers to the will of God. When a person uses contraception, they are attempting to block the will of God.

I do trust God and I’d like to know how using a condom to avoid a mess during pregnancy is putting up barriers to/blocking God’s will. Please let me know.
 
awantz said:
I do trust God and I’d like to know how using a condom to avoid a mess during pregnancy is putting up barriers to/blocking God’s will. Please let me know.
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Exactly, if God wants you to get pregnant, its gonna happen. A little pill and a dinky piece of rubber isn’t going to stop Him.
 
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