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Spiller
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Given the tenor and quality of your postings, I believe you.
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EasterJoy
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I really like our cathedral, St. Mary of the Immaculate Conception in Portland. archdpdx.org/parishes/cathedral/
The style is Romanesque, I think. To me, the artwork and stained glass are rich without being overly fussy. You know you’re in a Catholic Church, but it also represents an area when men have never worn a lot of lace. It fits the archdiocese very well.
St. Mary in Mt. Angel is also just splendid, in my book. It’s gothic revival, but the artwork combines classic and baroque. Much of the artwork was done by German artists. It looks every inch a Catholic church, and a German Catholic church, at that. The churches in southern Germany seemed like home to me.
stmarymtangel.org/stmary/tour/tour_of_the_church.aspx
The church was damaged in an earthquake about 15 years ago now, and the restoration was very well done. Sadly, though, I think that the beautifully carved confessionals were removed many years prior to that. I don’t know what happened to those.
Back to the thread: I like church architecture that is a) obviously Catholic and b) not too ornate, but with nice enough materials that the restraint was obviously a choice. And really, how ornate depends on the location. Overly ornate seems a bit strange in Oregon. For the Pope, St. Peter’s Basilica and the Sistine Chapel are just right.
The style is Romanesque, I think. To me, the artwork and stained glass are rich without being overly fussy. You know you’re in a Catholic Church, but it also represents an area when men have never worn a lot of lace. It fits the archdiocese very well.
St. Mary in Mt. Angel is also just splendid, in my book. It’s gothic revival, but the artwork combines classic and baroque. Much of the artwork was done by German artists. It looks every inch a Catholic church, and a German Catholic church, at that. The churches in southern Germany seemed like home to me.
stmarymtangel.org/stmary/tour/tour_of_the_church.aspx
The church was damaged in an earthquake about 15 years ago now, and the restoration was very well done. Sadly, though, I think that the beautifully carved confessionals were removed many years prior to that. I don’t know what happened to those.
Back to the thread: I like church architecture that is a) obviously Catholic and b) not too ornate, but with nice enough materials that the restraint was obviously a choice. And really, how ornate depends on the location. Overly ornate seems a bit strange in Oregon. For the Pope, St. Peter’s Basilica and the Sistine Chapel are just right.
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Spiller
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“Contradict?” No, they clutter the sanctuary/nave.
Your “modernism” comment is merely a display of confusion. OLAC is actually an example of gifted architecture – but given your comments I can see how that would be lost on you.
I actually don’t believe you have ever been to OLAC. To experience the Mass or even an organ recital in that space will leave anyone with some level of grudging respect at the very least. You comments suggest you have never been inside of the building…
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Lepanto
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Do you always launch ad hominems at those who don’t agree with your opinions? (I’ve seen you attack numerous other posters in other threads, so I’m hardly surprised.) I clearly disagree with you about OLAC, yet I don’t have to stoop to attacking your person.“Contradict?” No, they clutter the sanctuary/nave.
Your “modernism” comment is merely a display of confusion. OLAC is actually an example of gifted architecture – but given your comments I can see how that would be lost on you.
I actually don’t believe you have ever been to OLAC. To experience the Mass or even an organ recital in that space will leave anyone with some level of grudging respect at the very least. You comments suggest you have never been inside of the building…
Do you also doubt what other people say about their personal lives? Do I have to show you my employer’s air travel receipts for the business trip I take to LA every quarter?
Better yet, let’s just stick to the issue: church architecture. If you really are impressed by OLAC, why don’t you write a convincing post about how it is NOT influenced by modernism?
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Spiller
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I didn’t use an ad hominem. And you far more than “disagree” – you attack OLAC.
In all sincerity I don’t believe a Catholic Christian could attend a Mass at OLAC and not give it at least some grudging respect. The cathedral does so many things so well that it necessarily counterbalances at least to some degree what some might find negative about it. Your comments suggest you have never been there.
You were the one that suggested you had been to OLAC. Take your “modernism” comment (the universal defense for people like you) back to the twilight zone, please…
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JuanCarlos
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One is allowed to not like a certain form of church architecture and be a Catholic in good standing, Spiller.
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Spiller
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And? Where did I suggest otherwise? More red herring?
OLAC does so many things so well. The entrance ambulatury really prepares one to make part in the Sacred Mysteries. The use of light is awesome – yes, awesome. The view of the altar/ambo is outstanding. The pipe organ and PA is outstanding. Some of the furnishings are wonderful as well.
For someone to rant and rave and claim they have visited the OLAC and vow never to go back smacks harshly of a disingenuous comment.
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EasterJoy
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Why is that? There are people who don’t like Florida, don’t like New York City, don’t like the Great Plains, don’t like the mountains, don’t like the ocean, don’t like cities, don’t like the sticks, don’t like the States, don’t like Europe, don’t like Asia…you name the place, somebody doesn’t like it, and I mean *really *doesn’t like it. That God made the whole earth doesn’t mean we’re going to find all of it equally habitable. And yes, they’ll call the parts they don’t like “God-forsaken.” Churchs aren’t an exception to that rule.
Big airy churches like the OLAC are sometimes a bit much for me. I don’t know how to describe it, because I do think they’re beautiful. I guess they lack intimacy, from my standpoint.
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JuanCarlos
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Spiller
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Brennan_Doherty
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Okay Spiller, is Duncan Stroik, who is a frequent contributor to the Adoremus Bulletin, is Chair of the architecture school of Notre Dame University and founder of the magazine Sacred Architecture also operating in the Twilight Zone when he says this:
“The liturgical design establishment, on the other hand, has barely acknowledged the critique of Modernism and continues to promote Modernist revival or even “deconstructionist” church buildings, as witnessed in two recent international competitions, one for a new church in Rome, the other for the Los Angeles Cathedral.”
in the article “The Roots of Modernist Church Architecture”?
stroik.com/pubs/roots.php
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Spiller
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First, OLAC does not feel big and airy. It actually feels quite intimate…
Why is that? There are people who don’t like Florida, don’t like New York City, don’t like the Great Plains, don’t like the mountains, don’t like the ocean, don’t like cities, don’t like the sticks, don’t like the States, don’t like Europe, don’t like Asia…you name the place, somebody doesn’t like it, and I mean *really *doesn’t like it. That God made the whole earth doesn’t mean we’re going to find all of it equally habitable. And yes, they’ll call the parts they don’t like “God-forsaken.” Churchs aren’t an exception to that rule.
Big airy churches like the OLAC are sometimes a bit much for me. I don’t know how to describe it, because I do think they’re beautiful. I guess they lack intimacy, from my standpoint.
I’m fairly certain those who who have formed a feeling of hatred for OLAC based on the man who built it, the fact that it looks nothing at all like St. Pat’s in NYC or their own parroted ignorance would VERY likely change their tune after attending Mass at OLAC.
It won’t likely become their favorite but I suspect most of vitriol would melt away, replaced with just a touch of admiration – for at least parts of the complex.
When I hear that parroted ignorance exclaimed in an attack on OLAC, I am nearly certain the attacker has never attended Mass there…
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JuanCarlos
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JuanCarlos
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And yes I have been to Mass there- about 4 times. 3 times was a Sunday mass with the Cardinal, organ, incense, etc.
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Spiller
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Spiller;3897939:
But to others the style may be artificial, stiff, and hard to concentrate in. They may even call it ugly (which some might construe as an “attack”. But maybe its just honesty). But thats ok.
I could say more about OLAC but I can tell a lot of people here like it so I will just stick with pointing the things I like about it.
LOL!!
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JuanCarlos
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JuanCarlos;3897979:
Yes, I was being a tad tongue in cheek.LOL!!
Still, I imagine heaven as a giant rococo Church.
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JuanCarlos
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Still, who wouldn’t mind going to confession here:
bergerfoundation.ch/wat4/dianumberG.cgi?number=033
bergerfoundation.ch/wat4/dianumberG.cgi?number=033
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EasterJoy
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Fair enough. Some people feel that way about Montana, too.
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consumedconvert
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I suppose I’d have to get used to it first. But I would
Pretty piece of work.
This reminds me. A local shnazzy restaurant has a very old wooden confessional in it that they took from a Church some time ago–I suppose the Church was being remodeled or, something.
Would you find this offensive or an innocent display of local Catholic heritage?? I don’t know quite what to think.
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Brennan_Doherty
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