What is your interpretation of Jesus being 'the only begotten Son of God'?

[Thorwald]

“begotten” has a mystical meaning (after all, how else does a father beget?). It doesn’t mean “created” at all. “begotten, not made”- it’s in the Nicene Creed even.

Jesus did have a created nature, and that came from the Blessed Virgin Mary. His uncreated nature came from the Father. God doen’t have “sperm” (ugghh), and the exact biology of the Incarnation is a mystery, a working of the Holy Spirit, so just leave it at that!

This is what you currently believe. What exactly happened, when the Holy Ghost ‘came upon Mary’? In order for Jesus to become a ‘true’ human being, would it not have to involve sperm? This would make God His Father, and Mary His mother. It would certainly explain a lot. Why do you find it so negative, that The Lord God Almighty may have sperm? If He does have sperm, the whole scriptures make more sense. Does it not make sense, that even angels (Gen 6:2…sons of God) also have sperm? If not, where did negroids and mongoloids come from, without God ‘creating’ them? I doubt very much that God ‘created’ them, because the sins of Adam & Eve had to ‘flow through’ all of mankind. The only change that occurred after Adam & Eve, was the birth of Christ. Even Noah, his wife and their three sons, would have had to be caucasian, with the son’s wives being one of each, in order for the races to carry on, and the sins of Adam & Eve to flow through until today. There is no mention in the scriptures, of any other ‘new addition’ by God, except in Genesis 6:2, and the birth of Christ.

 

[Daedelus76]

Are we not created 'in the image of God? Are not the angels, and Christ, also? When John witnessed Revelation, were not the angels in our ‘image’ also? Would God make His Sons & daughters look like ‘something other than Himself’? If you believe that He would, why do you believe so?

“Image of God” has a mystical meaning, it doesn’t refer to physical form.

This is what you currently believe. What exactly happened, when the Holy Ghost ‘came upon Mary’? In order for Jesus to become a ‘true’ human being, would it not have to involve sperm? This would make God His Father,

God was Jesus’ Father before the creation of all worlds. He didn’t need anything human to be the Father.

Frankly, it is none of my business to know “what exactly happened”. It’s speculation and I leave it at that. What you are talking about is like peeping into the dressing room of the Mother of God- blasphemous. I’m not going there, though I’m pretty sure it wasn’t something carnal. I don’t need to know the biology of the BVM’s conception of Jesus to accept it. It was the work of the Holy Spirit, the same way that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. It doesn’t need an explanation.

and Mary His mother. It would certainly explain a lot. Why do you find it so negative, that The Lord God Almighty may have sperm? If He does have sperm, the whole scriptures make more sense. Does it not make sense, that even angels (Gen 6:2…sons of God)
also have sperm?

You are thinking too literally and rationalistcly. Very typical of Protestant fundamentalists. Those stories in Genesis are mythology. Sacred mythology. They aren’t history at all in the modern sense.

If not, where did negroids and mongoloids come from, without God ‘creating’ them? I doubt very much that God ‘created’ them, because the sins of Adam & Eve had to ‘flow through’ all of mankind.

You actually think that way? All people are equal before God. Africans and Asians aren’t tainted at all. Ugghh…

Stop thinking so much, research the historic creeds and the tradition about what the Bible actually says. Don’t go making up wild-eyed stuff on your own. You should read the Bible to be inspired, not to find answers to science questions.

 

[Thorwald]

“Image of God” has a mystical meaning, it doesn’t refer to physical form.

It may be mystical to you, but it is not, to me. The Word is written for all to have wisdom, not just some people to look for a ‘hidden secret’, otherwise, we all go in different directions with our faith, and the Word becomes nothing. We will be held accountable in the end, as to whether or not we have read and followed the Word. Am I to suppose, that I can use the excuse, that I couldn’t understand the Word?
God was Jesus’ Father before the creation of all worlds. He didn’t need anything human to be the Father.

Have I said anything different? I simply make the statement, that as Lord of Hosts, Jesus could have been begotten from His Father’s sperm (without mother). I did not say at all, that He needed anything human. You are assuming, that ‘sperm’ is only a ‘human’ characteristic.
You are thinking too literally and rationalistcly. Very typical of Protestant fundamentalists. Those stories in Genesis are mythology. Sacred mythology. They aren’t history at all in the modern sense.

You have to realize, that I have ran the possibility of ‘sperm’ past many others. They all respond as you do, and yet, offer no other intelligent understanding. In fact, I can see no other plausible explanation, when I try to understand The Trinity, The Godhead, and Jesus Christ specifically. Do you have a better answer?
Lord, have mercy! You actually think that way? All people are equal before God in his love. Africans and Asians aren’t tainted at all. Ugghh…

Who said that Africans & Asians are tainted? It is simply a fact, that unless these two races are involved during conception, the offspring will not contain any characteristics of these races. Adam & Eve had to be caucasian., otherwise, there would be no caucasians today.

 

[Daedelus76]

God is not a man in nature. Though the pronoun “He” is used, that doesn’t necessarily imply human concepts of gender.

What you are asking is sort of like “How could Jesus multiply fish, without a fishing net?” The conception of Jesus Christ happened “by the power of the Holy Spirit”, the Father willed it to be so. No carnality is implied.

 

[Thorwald]

God is not a man in nature. He doesn’t need “sperm”. Though the pronoun “He” is used, that doesn’t necessarily imply human concepts of gender.

What you are asking is sort of like “How could Jesus multiply fish, without a fishing net? The Holy Spirit must have had a fishing net.” It’s actually denying real faith.

How wrong you are, buried in your ‘traditional’ beliefs, and lack of true wisdom. Now I’m going to drop a bombshell.

Six years ago, I had two visions, followed by a dream. In the first vision, I actually 're-entered my mother’s womb, and was ‘born again’. In the second vision, I was in the presence of The Father, The Holy Ghost (neither of these two, could I see, but a ‘channel’ went up from me to them…The Father controlled the vision), The Lord God Almighty and Jesus Christ (these two figures were identical in all ways, standing on pure white clouds). The Trinity and The Godhead consists of four figures, not three. All that I have written as postings in this thread, are things that were ‘unveiled’ to me. The dream that followed, was all in riddles, that took many years for God to unveil. I was told, that anything that I wanted to know concerning the Word of God, I had simply to ask Him. This included the scripture which I had (the KJV Bible) and all other Word given unto man, that has since been lost. Mary never entered the picture at any time in either the visions, or the dream. At the end of all of this, I was told that my name was written in heaven. God fulfilled Numbers 12:6, and John 14:21-23. As I went forward, and witnessed to ministers in many churches, I was asked to leave many of them, fulfilling God’s Word, that we will be thrown out of the church, because if they threw the master out, they will surely throw you out.

I am about to leave this forum for the last time. Pay attention to what I have revealed unto you. It is your soul at stake. May God be with you, as He is with me.

 

[Daedelus76]

This included the scripture which I had (the KJV Bible) and all other Word given unto man, that has since been lost. Mary never entered the picture at any time in either the visions, or the dream.

Mary is not God, I never said she was. Her ancient title is “Theotokos”, “Genetrix Dei”, God-bearer. “Mother of God” is easily misunderstood. She is “the Mother of God” in her relationship to Jesus Christ, not the Mother of God from all eternity.

I think your vision is a delusion or something worse… Why would there be 4 members of the Trinity? “Lord God Almighty” seperate from the Father? What nonsense.

am about to leave this forum for the last time. Pay attention to what I have revealed unto you. It is your soul at stake. May God be with you, as He is with me.

Spiritual pride is blinding you. You enjoy being right and everybody else being wrong, and persecuting you.

 

[Thorwald]

Mary is not God, I never said she was. Her ancient title is “Theotokos”, “Genetrix Dei”, God-bearer. “Mother of God” is easily misunderstood. She is “the Mother of God” in her relationship to Jesus Christ, not the Mother of God from all eternity.

I think your vision is a delusion or something worse… Why would there be 4 members of the Trinity? “Lord God Almighty” seperate from the Father? What nonsense.

**I feel obligated, to respond to your posting. You do not understand the postings that I have made in this thread. Please re-read all of them. They are not coming from my own vanity. Be very careful of how you respond to that which I have written. I went through over six years, of 10-12 hours per day, everyday, of searching the Bible, being ‘led’ in specific routes throughout the Bible, until I understood what I was being taught. During this period of time, I was well provided for, in terms of my carnal needs. It was a period of total devotion to God, and constant prayer. Before it all commenced, I was given the opportunity to accept, or reject what I was asked to do. I was not forced to accept this assignment. I faced everything from deep depression, persecution and loneliness. No other person could help me, in understanding what I was being shown. Many times, I went to God in prayer, with anger in my heart, because I could not understand what He was teaching me. At times, it took more than a year for Him to unveil the answer, to some questions. He always gave me the answer in the end. I had to remain obedient and patient. You have no idea, of what I went through.

The ‘Trinity’ consists of The Father, The Son (The Word) and The Holy Ghost. The Son created everything, but before He started, He ‘begot’ His own Son (Jesus…as The Lord of Hosts). He had in fact, created His redemption ‘sacrifice’ for HIs creation, before starting to create it. It is as simple as that. The combination of The Son (The Lord God Almighty) and HIs Son (The sacrificial Lamb), He called ‘God’. This is why Jesus is referred to in Revelation, as ‘the beginning of the creation of God’. In this case, ‘God’ is a name given by The Lord God Almighty, to include both Himself and Jesus. This is what the verse means. The Lord God Almighty and Jesus, are both ‘The Word’ and ‘King of Kings and Lord of Lords’. Together they sit on The Lord God Almighty’s throne, at the end. After all is reconciled, The Lord God Almighty has to submit Himself and His throne, to The Father. This is the truth. **

Spiritual pride is blinding you. You enjoy being right and everybody else being wrong, and persecuting you.

 

[Daedelus76]

And why did it take 2000 years to find this special interpretation of Scriptures that is “correct”? Why is this information so critical to salvation? What am I to make of all the people that had an orthodox faith that worked miracles in Jesus name?

The desire to explain what is a mystery is the source of all heresy. I would really like to hear an explanation on your part on why you think you know better than 2000 years of tradition?

 

[choosechrist]

He just proved that his personal interpretation is infallible. Added to that he had a special vision Sounds a lot like Islam, the Mormons and other special folks with visions.

Somehow heresy always remains the same. The Devil has no imagination, he just continues with the same old lies, of course he gets new people to say the lies.

He just called all my scripture references junk. What a great argument!

 

[arah1958]

Gospel of John is very confusing, no one know who wrote the Gospel of John.

Some bible already replace the word begotten to Only Son

John 3:16 (New International Version)

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

However it very difficult to believe the bible because Jesus is not the Only son, there are also other son in the bible
Luke 3:28

37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Psalm 2:7 (New International Version)

7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son [a] ;
today I have become your Father. **

1 Chronicles 22:10 (New International Version)

10 He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

Exodus 4:22 (New International Version)

22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Psalm 82:6 (New International Version)

6 "I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

Many conclude that the bible contradict and the Quran clearly explain that God have no son.

1. Surah 5: Ayat :17. In blasphemy indeed are those that say that
   Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power
   against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his
   mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah
   belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is
   between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all
   things.”

112:1 (Asad) SAY: "He is the One God:​

112:2 (Asad) "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being. [1]​

112:3 (Asad) "He begets not, and neither is He begotten;​

112:4 (Asad) "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him. [2]​

Jesus most important commandment

Jesus engaged in much public debate with the Pharisees and Sadducees,
two Jewish factions that opposed Him and his teachings. It was during
one of these debates that Jesus stated the Greatest Commandment:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing
that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the
commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,”
answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord
is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is
this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment
greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

I hope this beautiful U tube will inspires U.

A Catholic TV asked Sheikh Yusuf Estes- Why he Converted to Islam
youtube.com/watch?v=P8i0Xvps8sg

May Almighty God the Creator bless us and show us the truth

Cheers**

 

[choosechrist]

Gospel of John is very confusing, no one know who wrote the Gospel of John…

Welcome to the forum. Why are you interested in this topic, considering that you are a muslim?

 

[arah1958]

Welcome to the forum. Why are you interested in this topic, considering that you are a muslim?

Gospel of John have nothing to do with the teaching of Jesus. The teaching of Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Muhammad is very clear

“Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,”
answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord
is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is
this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment
greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

Can anyone tell me who wrote the Gospel of John?

 

[arah1958]

Thorwald:
If God can answer your questions, why you need the bible or Jesus?

“…The ‘Trinity’ consists of The Father, The Son (The Word) and The Holy Ghost. The Son created everything, but before He started, He ‘begot’ His own Son (Jesus…as The Lord of Hosts). He had in fact, created His redemption ‘sacrifice’ for HIs creation, before starting to create it. It is as simple as that. The combination of The Son (The Lord God Almighty) and HIs Son (The sacrificial Lamb), He called ‘God’…”

Which part of the Gospel that clearly mentioned about Trinity?

Jesus clearly teach about One God not Trinity

"The most important one,"answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is
this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment
greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31)…

 

[choosechrist]

Gospel of John have nothing to do with the teaching of Jesus. The teaching of Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Muhammad is very clear

“Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,”
answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord
is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is
this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment
greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

Can anyone tell me who wrote the Gospel of John?

The entire Bible contains books that were written by different writers, but the Author of the bible is the Holy Spirit - God. If you look at a book it has a central unity that allows it to make sense because it is written by one person. If you take a magazine there is no central unity, although there might be a theme.

The Holy Bible, unlike any other religious book was actually a collection of sacred writings, written by over 40 people in various circumstances of persecution, joy, travel, pain, love, etc. It has various genres of literature but at the heart of all these writings are the predictions that God would come to His people and save them. The Gospel of John was written by the youngest disciple of Jesus, John the brother of James. He was a fisherman before Jesus called him. He wrote his account of Jesus life many years after the events had taken place perhaps in 70 AD. or later. His Gospel assumes the reader is familiar with the other Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. John lived till 90AD and died on the island of Patmos in captivity. He is also the writer of the last book of the Bible, the book of Revelations.

You still haven’t answered my question about your interest in this subject.

 

[choosechrist]

If God can answer your questions, why you need the bible or Jesus?

“…The ‘Trinity’ consists of The Father, The Son (The Word) and The Holy Ghost. The Son created everything, but before He started, He ‘begot’ His own Son (Jesus…as The Lord of Hosts). He had in fact, created His redemption ‘sacrifice’ for HIs creation, before starting to create it. It is as simple as that. The combination of The Son (The Lord God Almighty) and HIs Son (The sacrificial Lamb), He called ‘God’…”

Which part of the Gospel that clearly mentioned about Trinity?

Jesus clearly teach about One God not Trinity

"The most important one,"answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is
this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment
greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31)…

God is One, but to understand this mystery totally is impossible. Yet, God leaves us clues to understand Him and its beatiful.

Have you seen how a father, mother and child are one family, yet three persons. THat is the best way to understand the Trinity. God is a community of love, a family.

Have you seen light, it consists of a spectrum of 7 colors, yet it is white and each of the colors is also light. That way. God is one and each person of the Trinity is God.

You are one person, yet you have spirit and body. When the spirit leaves the body, you are dead. Yet, you are considered one person because your spirit is wholly you and your body is also you.

the Bible contains many references to the Trinue Godhead. Most importantly, Jesus told His disciples to make disciples of all nations and baptise them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Matthew 28:19)

I noticed that you have quoted Theowald. If you want to understand Christianity, I suggest you go to proper sources and not consider material from such people who are already confused.

 

[Daedelus76]

What the Trinity ultimately means is a mystery. That is the point. People who want to try and re-invent or deny the Trinity are really wanting to rationalize faith. It always leads to errors. There is no “answer” to the Trinity. There are explanations, mystical allegories, but you cannot deconstruct God.

BTW, the doctrine of the Trinity and related doctrines were only written down in response to heresies. People that claimed Jesus was merely an angel and not wholely divine, or people who claimed that Jesus had no humanity. That’s the way all major Christian theology happened up until the medieval period. If anything, the Trinity preserves the Oneness of God in context of the New Testament revelation