A
Atreyu
Guest
So why do you hate them then? Think of John Paul II when he was shot. Do you think he hated the shooter?
- Status
C
catsrus
Guest
In answer to the OP’s question; they go together like a horse and carriage.
L
LeahInancsi
Guest
Muslims say Islam is a peaceful religion, but I think I know their definition of “peace.” If it is truly a peaceful religion, then it lends itself to violence.
I voted that it is radical and violent.
I voted that it is radical and violent.
B
bella5110
Guest
I read that Islam says that those who profess belief in The Holy Trinity are idolators, infidels; they are mushriks. What does The Koran say to do to the idolator, the blasphemer, the infidel, the mushrik? The teaching of Mohammed in The Koran is kill the mushrik.
Jesus Christ said “All power is given to Me in Heaven and in Earth. Going therefore, teach ye ALL nations; baptizing them in the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of The holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you ALL the days, even to the consummation of the world.”
It is this work that will be accomplished. The Mohammedans, who use the sword, will weild the sword, and will accomplish nothing but the shedding of blood. But they will not conquer the world for Islam. The world is filled with infidels and idolators. Those who have the Catholic faith recognize this fact. But unlike Islam, we are not going to get our machine guns and our swords, and run through and fill everyone with lead, everyone who disagrees with our faith. islam is in a fight to the death with Christianity, with The Catholic Faith. Mohammed actually said “God will send five thousand angels to give victory to Islam, so don’t fear, go ahead into battle.”
What do you feel about that?
Jesus Christ said “All power is given to Me in Heaven and in Earth. Going therefore, teach ye ALL nations; baptizing them in the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of The holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you ALL the days, even to the consummation of the world.”
It is this work that will be accomplished. The Mohammedans, who use the sword, will weild the sword, and will accomplish nothing but the shedding of blood. But they will not conquer the world for Islam. The world is filled with infidels and idolators. Those who have the Catholic faith recognize this fact. But unlike Islam, we are not going to get our machine guns and our swords, and run through and fill everyone with lead, everyone who disagrees with our faith. islam is in a fight to the death with Christianity, with The Catholic Faith. Mohammed actually said “God will send five thousand angels to give victory to Islam, so don’t fear, go ahead into battle.”
What do you feel about that?
S
Sixtus
Guest
Reformed Bob. You are putting it mildly.
I am not aware of any catholic who has as a matter of routine, undertaken slander, insults, propagation of lies and discrimination against Protestants, which is more than can be said the other way around.
How many times have you been accused of ‘idol worship’ and ‘having dealings with the devil’? I note it is done as a matter of routine. Then to add insult to injury, there is usually some quote from the bible informing us of the ‘error of our ways’. It is hardly surprising then that our Moslem brothers and sisters get such a hard time.
It astonishes me that the fact most catholics keep a crucifix to remind them of the price that was paid for the remission of sin, is seen as ‘idol worship’.
I regularly attend Mass three times a week at three different Mass Centres. I do not know of any catholic at any of them [or anywhere else] who engages in idol worship.
I wonder if the same people who accuse us, have any pictures or photographs hanging on their walls at home of loved ones? Is that not also idol worship as it meets the criteria they use to judge us?
It astonishes me that I could have a picture on my wall of a skull and crossbones, or some other lewd picture and that would be ok. But if I have something remotely religious to help me meditate on the infinite love of God, then I am an idol worshipper!!!
S
Sixtus
Guest
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Ilsam is currently getting a bad press., It seems it is ok to bash Moslems.
When one brings up inconvient truths of history and theology, facts that run counter to the the-West-is bad PC cant, that’s called bashing.
Aetheism and the New Age Movement are the greatest dangers to Christianity but I do not hear anyone bashing them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Holy Jihad is not a violent activity, it is one of individual self-sacrifice for the benefit of others.
Tell that to anyone who can read Surah 9, which was EITHER the last “revealed” or near-last–in any case, using the Koranic principle of “abbrogation”, it trashes the Meccan “tolerance” Surahs AND any idea of non-physical jihad
Look up the meaning of the word Jihad in the Quaran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Of all the practicing Moslems I have ever met, they were all men of peace, goodwill and a real pleasure to know and associate with.
Catholics get exponentially far more sensible dialogue with Muslims than they do with Orangemen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
I am sure there are the radicals, fanatics and politically motivated who will use Islam as an excuse. If it were not for Islam they would use some other excuse. Christianity has their fair share of fanatics too. one has only to look at the Orange Order, which is committed to the destruction of Catholicsm. To the persecution of Catholics as individuals. To the destruction of their businesses, their homelife, etc etc
These VERY regional bigots have had HOW much influence on world events and history? HOW much of Christendom diid they conquer? HOW many people are the Orangemen killing in the Sudan, how many are they raping and enslaving? The bottom line is, that Chrisitanity has to be WAY distorted and ignored to justify homicide, conquest, & genocide. The justification for a Muslim for treating you as ferengi is right in the Koran, right in the Hadith, right in the very life of Muhammed who is consistently held up as the examplar of right conduct for a Muslim
Aethistic communism was the greater threat to the Catholic Church and was nearly successful in both destroying her and the world. see messages of fatima. But I did not hear any protests then. Where were the Protestants when we needed them? Probably financing communist Russia’s attempt to destroy the catholic church. Thank God for the timely intervention of the Holy Spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
The worst Moslem I have ever met was far kinder and more charitable than the best Orangeman.
Reminds me of Theodore Roosevelt who claimed the worst, most drunken and violent cowboy he ever met was still better than the best Indian he ever met–which begs the question, did TR see a valid sample of either group? Most Muslims, especially those of Arabic culture, come from intimate history with Behdoin-Desert concepts of hospitality–something we’re rather divorced from in our generations of urban living. However, that tribal culture can also justify killing and conquest without batting an eye–and w/in the Koran is a codification of BOTH principles–however, let me stress this, MOST Muslims are better than their theology
I cannot speak for cowboys or Indians. But, no Muslim has ever attempted to take my life, which is more than can be said for Orange. Why? [a] Because I am Catholic and **
When I was 4-years old, I was tarred and feathered. Why? Because I was a Catholic. No Moslem has tarred and feathered me. That makes Mulims better in my books and nothing will ever change that.
I must speak as I find. I have never been threatened or hurt by a Moslem**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Christianity has a lot to answer for. in its persectution and allowing Moslems to be persecuted.
You mean the much misunderstood, much distorted history of the Crusades? You mean the defensive wars that saved Christendom and Europe from conquest?
History too long ago to be accurate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
My Moslem brothers and sisters. I ask for your forgiveness
Them first–and yes, I remember the dancing of jubilation in the streets of Gaza & Cairo on 9/11/01–and yes, in the Muslim neighborhood of Dearborn Michigan
I remember the dancing in the streets that an Orangemen had killed innocent catholics. You do not know there was dancing in the streets of Gaza and Cairo.
You only know what our media tells us. I have seen what the media can do. It is not nice. They can paint whatever picture tehy chose to support their politics
Protestants have flogged catholicism to death and bored are looking for another scapegoat. They have found one: it is called Islam.
Ilsam is currently getting a bad press., It seems it is ok to bash Moslems.
When one brings up inconvient truths of history and theology, facts that run counter to the the-West-is bad PC cant, that’s called bashing.
Aetheism and the New Age Movement are the greatest dangers to Christianity but I do not hear anyone bashing them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Holy Jihad is not a violent activity, it is one of individual self-sacrifice for the benefit of others.
Tell that to anyone who can read Surah 9, which was EITHER the last “revealed” or near-last–in any case, using the Koranic principle of “abbrogation”, it trashes the Meccan “tolerance” Surahs AND any idea of non-physical jihad
Look up the meaning of the word Jihad in the Quaran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Of all the practicing Moslems I have ever met, they were all men of peace, goodwill and a real pleasure to know and associate with.
Catholics get exponentially far more sensible dialogue with Muslims than they do with Orangemen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
I am sure there are the radicals, fanatics and politically motivated who will use Islam as an excuse. If it were not for Islam they would use some other excuse. Christianity has their fair share of fanatics too. one has only to look at the Orange Order, which is committed to the destruction of Catholicsm. To the persecution of Catholics as individuals. To the destruction of their businesses, their homelife, etc etc
These VERY regional bigots have had HOW much influence on world events and history? HOW much of Christendom diid they conquer? HOW many people are the Orangemen killing in the Sudan, how many are they raping and enslaving? The bottom line is, that Chrisitanity has to be WAY distorted and ignored to justify homicide, conquest, & genocide. The justification for a Muslim for treating you as ferengi is right in the Koran, right in the Hadith, right in the very life of Muhammed who is consistently held up as the examplar of right conduct for a Muslim
Aethistic communism was the greater threat to the Catholic Church and was nearly successful in both destroying her and the world. see messages of fatima. But I did not hear any protests then. Where were the Protestants when we needed them? Probably financing communist Russia’s attempt to destroy the catholic church. Thank God for the timely intervention of the Holy Spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
The worst Moslem I have ever met was far kinder and more charitable than the best Orangeman.
Reminds me of Theodore Roosevelt who claimed the worst, most drunken and violent cowboy he ever met was still better than the best Indian he ever met–which begs the question, did TR see a valid sample of either group? Most Muslims, especially those of Arabic culture, come from intimate history with Behdoin-Desert concepts of hospitality–something we’re rather divorced from in our generations of urban living. However, that tribal culture can also justify killing and conquest without batting an eye–and w/in the Koran is a codification of BOTH principles–however, let me stress this, MOST Muslims are better than their theology
I cannot speak for cowboys or Indians. But, no Muslim has ever attempted to take my life, which is more than can be said for Orange. Why? [a] Because I am Catholic and **
When I was 4-years old, I was tarred and feathered. Why? Because I was a Catholic. No Moslem has tarred and feathered me. That makes Mulims better in my books and nothing will ever change that.
I must speak as I find. I have never been threatened or hurt by a Moslem**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Christianity has a lot to answer for. in its persectution and allowing Moslems to be persecuted.
You mean the much misunderstood, much distorted history of the Crusades? You mean the defensive wars that saved Christendom and Europe from conquest?
History too long ago to be accurate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtus
My Moslem brothers and sisters. I ask for your forgiveness
Them first–and yes, I remember the dancing of jubilation in the streets of Gaza & Cairo on 9/11/01–and yes, in the Muslim neighborhood of Dearborn Michigan
I remember the dancing in the streets that an Orangemen had killed innocent catholics. You do not know there was dancing in the streets of Gaza and Cairo.
You only know what our media tells us. I have seen what the media can do. It is not nice. They can paint whatever picture tehy chose to support their politics
Protestants have flogged catholicism to death and bored are looking for another scapegoat. They have found one: it is called Islam.
C
cestusdei
Guest
I don’t particularly hate them, but I hate what the Muslims do.
Sixtus, as bad as they are Orangeman are unlikely to kill millions of people in an act of terrorism. You will see that from Muslims. Islam is a worldwide threat to peace and stability. They treat Christians even worse then the Orangeman treated Catholics.
Sixtus, as bad as they are Orangeman are unlikely to kill millions of people in an act of terrorism. You will see that from Muslims. Islam is a worldwide threat to peace and stability. They treat Christians even worse then the Orangeman treated Catholics.
A
Atreyu
Guest
That’s a little more like it.
R
Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Sixtus,
Since you seem to know, what is the meaning of Jihad in Surah 9?
Pray tell us.
Chau,
Rodrigo
Since you seem to know, what is the meaning of Jihad in Surah 9?
Pray tell us.
Chau,
Rodrigo
W
wjb67
Guest
Actually that view of Islam is historically correct.
Look up the Battle of Tours and the Battle of Vienna…and all the attempts by Islamic armies to conquor Europe during the 700 years in between.
E
Edward62
Guest
I think that true Islam is like true Catholicism, in that we’re called to make a radical change in the world. Violence is not the way to go about it, but we are a people set apart… we are to live by God’s rules, not just the world’s rules.
So is terrorism, in the name of Allah or in the name of God, the right answer? No, of course not. Thou shalt not kill. But we don’t have to be sissies either; we can fight back against injustice and against sacrilege.
So is terrorism, in the name of Allah or in the name of God, the right answer? No, of course not. Thou shalt not kill. But we don’t have to be sissies either; we can fight back against injustice and against sacrilege.
M
mark_a
Guest
In the eyes of violent radical Muslims, are peaceful Muslims to be oppressed?
L
LtTony
Guest
Essentially the same view I hold. Western muslims are, by and large, progressive and moderate. The backwater muslims that perceive they have been wronged are generally the violent element.
P
pismopal
Guest
You mean the moderate ones…like in France or Spain or…never mind, the quickest way to be censored here is to speak one’s mind about islam and the behavior of muslims…NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT!!
If anyone wants to know what islam requires of a good muslim just read their books and listen to their leaders or perhaps note the good works , cough cough, of the adherents.
D
D_M
Guest
Islam was spread through conquest throughout much of the territories it now occupies… although admittedly the same is also true of Christianity in many places.
I’m actually not positive which one has been historically moreso in this regard,
the conquest of the Americas was one of the most brutal and atrocious genocides in human history and it was nominally done in the name of the cross, christianity spread through much of central europe by the conquests of Charlemagne and other such characters who waged war against the pagans,
In the 20th century though something has changed about the Ummah (the body of believers) much for the worse than anything it was before perhaps. It may have relation to the termination of the instution of the Caliphate in 1922 (I think this is the successor of Mohammed, or maybe like an Islamic pope)
As much violence as you may hear about what muslims are doing to non-believers (darfur in Sudan is a prominent hotspot in the news today), there is really fractional divisions between Muslim believers all around the world, and I don’t just mean the sectarian violence you hear about in Iraq, but rather like a kind of enveloping social break down in any concept of Muslim unity… this is the crisis in their own religion that I think is causing this apocalyptic mindset among people like Bin Laden that Islam is under siege and martyrs need to come and fight for its survival, against an enemy that can take whatever form it is given
I think that any religion that instructs people not to believe in the Son of God, is already anti-christian in its framework, but I’m not inclined to think that there is anything in their religion’s teaching that is any more or less violent than what could be found in Christian tradition. I think that if they are more violent than perhaps it is because they lack God’s grace, remain in original sin, and are therefore more easily prone to commit such violence, and other sins as well for that matter.
I’m actually not positive which one has been historically moreso in this regard,
the conquest of the Americas was one of the most brutal and atrocious genocides in human history and it was nominally done in the name of the cross, christianity spread through much of central europe by the conquests of Charlemagne and other such characters who waged war against the pagans,
In the 20th century though something has changed about the Ummah (the body of believers) much for the worse than anything it was before perhaps. It may have relation to the termination of the instution of the Caliphate in 1922 (I think this is the successor of Mohammed, or maybe like an Islamic pope)
As much violence as you may hear about what muslims are doing to non-believers (darfur in Sudan is a prominent hotspot in the news today), there is really fractional divisions between Muslim believers all around the world, and I don’t just mean the sectarian violence you hear about in Iraq, but rather like a kind of enveloping social break down in any concept of Muslim unity… this is the crisis in their own religion that I think is causing this apocalyptic mindset among people like Bin Laden that Islam is under siege and martyrs need to come and fight for its survival, against an enemy that can take whatever form it is given
I think that any religion that instructs people not to believe in the Son of God, is already anti-christian in its framework, but I’m not inclined to think that there is anything in their religion’s teaching that is any more or less violent than what could be found in Christian tradition. I think that if they are more violent than perhaps it is because they lack God’s grace, remain in original sin, and are therefore more easily prone to commit such violence, and other sins as well for that matter.
R
R_not
Guest
Why? Is it because of what they say vs what muslims do?
I only see that they are trying to make their image into something while they do nothing to stop the violence against infidels - or even their own women - worldwide.
Every country that muslims migrate to has eventually become a war zone - or at the very least a very, dangerous place for not only Christians to live but also Buddhists, Hindus, etc. And it only does so after their numbers are built up sufficiently. Until then the facade of peace is shown to the populations that reside in the host countries.
The best to find out about islam is to read their koran and hadiths. I have written that before. Is it boring? YES! But, that is the only way to know for yourself.
here is an article on how they look at us infidels, it explains why they do what they do to non-muslims, but also explains why they are wanting segregation and bringing it back into our society. Remember if we did that to them, or to blacks, the outcry would be deafening and they get away with it because no one in authority wants to make themselves familiar with islam:
**jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005438.php
Contact with najis things brings a Muslim into a state of ritual impurity (najasat). Not only do Muslims think pigs are impure, but they believe non-Muslims are, too:
"84. The following ten things are essentially najis: 1. Urine 2. Faeces 3. Semen 4. Dead body 5. Blood 6. Dog 7. Pig 8. Kafir 9. Alcoholic liquors 10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat *.
- The entire body of a Kafir, including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis.
- If the parents, paternal grandmother and paternal grandfather of a minor child are all kafir, that child is najis, except when he is intelligent enough, and professes Islam. When, even one person from his parents or grandparents is a Muslim, the child is Pak (The details will be explained in rule 217).
- A person about whom it is not known whether he is a Muslim or not, and if no signs exist to establish him as a Muslim, he will be considered Pak. But he will not have the privileges of a Muslim, like, he cannot marry a Muslim woman, nor can he be buried in a Muslim cemetery."***
R
R_not
Guest
You want to find out some history of islam, then go check this out. I also mention another book below that I have read and recommend.
jihadwatch.org/archives/021738.php
Just an fyi for anyone interested in this sort of thing.
Andrew Bostom to discuss **The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism **on C-Span 2’s BookTV
From the BookTV website: booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9481&SectionName=History&PlayMedia=No
Upcoming Schedule
Sunday, July 13, at 7:00 AM
Monday, July 14, at 1:00 AM
About the Program
At the Hudson Institute in Washington, DC, author Andrew Bostom discussed his new book “The Legacy of Antisemitism”. Mr. Bostom draws from scholarly journals and sacred texts to argue that Islamic antisemitism is rooted in Islam’s foundational texts.
I have read his other book, The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims, and I will say it is not light reading - but a great book of historical facts. It makes us all realize that this current radicalization - is just not a radicalization, but islam just being islam. The followers of islam just following their koran.
jihadwatch.org/archives/021738.php
Just an fyi for anyone interested in this sort of thing.
Andrew Bostom to discuss **The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism **on C-Span 2’s BookTV
From the BookTV website: booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9481&SectionName=History&PlayMedia=No
Upcoming Schedule
Sunday, July 13, at 7:00 AM
Monday, July 14, at 1:00 AM
About the Program
At the Hudson Institute in Washington, DC, author Andrew Bostom discussed his new book “The Legacy of Antisemitism”. Mr. Bostom draws from scholarly journals and sacred texts to argue that Islamic antisemitism is rooted in Islam’s foundational texts.
I have read his other book, The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims, and I will say it is not light reading - but a great book of historical facts. It makes us all realize that this current radicalization - is just not a radicalization, but islam just being islam. The followers of islam just following their koran.
- Status