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JimG
Guest
Sometimes, good jobs go begging because people won’t take them or there are not enough workers available.
What is your opinion on American "work culture" and working conditions?
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DENNYINMI
Guest
And I personally agree that the majority of the persons here within these forums feel this way and are indeed formidable charity contributors. But I also do not see socialism in every closet. Nor can I dismiss my brothers and sisters so easily that have not been the recipients of good charitable initiatives, but the recipients of government aide that puts food on their tables, offers medical care, housing and in some instances an ear in the form of social workers and day care workers that look after their children.
I will avoid any attempt at crawling into the sewer of government complaint, there are too many twists, turns and alley’s that disrespect the pain of the poor.
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ewohdrol
Guest
While your solutions are founded you are ignoring that many people simply do not have the capacity or role models to improve their lot.
Being born in a low socioeconomic household, with possible substance and social issues generally does not instill a culture of children who can prioritise their potential. Unfortunately if the brain is not stimulated in the correct way as a young child it is incredibly hard to change as an adult. This doesn’t take into account learning difficulties, alcohol faetal syndrome etc.
While aveneus should be available for people to better themselves we should acknowledge those unfortunate souls who probably won’t be able to do further study/training.
Doesn’t change the fact legislation should ensure minimim wage is livable.
Being born in a low socioeconomic household, with possible substance and social issues generally does not instill a culture of children who can prioritise their potential. Unfortunately if the brain is not stimulated in the correct way as a young child it is incredibly hard to change as an adult. This doesn’t take into account learning difficulties, alcohol faetal syndrome etc.
While aveneus should be available for people to better themselves we should acknowledge those unfortunate souls who probably won’t be able to do further study/training.
Doesn’t change the fact legislation should ensure minimim wage is livable.
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Augustinian
Guest
What does a “livable” minimum wage actually mean?
A teenager might just need enough wage to buy his gasoline and car insurance. If I took a job, I have money already I don’t need the cash at all to live.
Everyone has different living expenses.
Wages should be based on what needs done, and how well the employee can do it.
Not on what the employee needs to live.
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F_Marturana
Guest
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ascetic
Guest
It seems like everyone, particularly in my state, seems to sum it up with an indifferent shrug and say “It’s like that everywhere.” Then there are always the smug replies about how if you’re not happy, then go somewhere and be happy. Then there are those either to blind to see the coercion to work longer and give up more rights or those too intentionally blind to see it.
I used to be a union rep in a more labor friendly state and even there remember being increasingly isolated in the public arena. Around here, if I even utter the dreaded the U-word I may as well be saying a cuss word.
As for work life balance, whatever happened to the old belief of 8 hours for work 8 hours for sleep 8 hours for what we will? If politicians sanctimoniously praise the family (however they define it to be PC), then how can they create a system that isolates parents? Maybe it depends on how I define the word: is.
Some folks, though may legitimately claim that a free economy guides things like costs of living and wages through Adam Smith’s invisible hand. I do believe in capitalism, but the question as I see it is how far we want to take that? Do we want to take it as far back as Jesus’ time, when the vast majority of humanity across the globe was very poor while a small class was very rich?
In the end I wind up praying a lot for the intercession of St. Joseph worker. I have recently discovered Pope Leo’s writings on it. Downloaded but not read yet.
I used to be a union rep in a more labor friendly state and even there remember being increasingly isolated in the public arena. Around here, if I even utter the dreaded the U-word I may as well be saying a cuss word.
As for work life balance, whatever happened to the old belief of 8 hours for work 8 hours for sleep 8 hours for what we will? If politicians sanctimoniously praise the family (however they define it to be PC), then how can they create a system that isolates parents? Maybe it depends on how I define the word: is.
Some folks, though may legitimately claim that a free economy guides things like costs of living and wages through Adam Smith’s invisible hand. I do believe in capitalism, but the question as I see it is how far we want to take that? Do we want to take it as far back as Jesus’ time, when the vast majority of humanity across the globe was very poor while a small class was very rich?
In the end I wind up praying a lot for the intercession of St. Joseph worker. I have recently discovered Pope Leo’s writings on it. Downloaded but not read yet.
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Peeps
Guest
I agree that government is necessary at this time in history, as many people in the U.S. wouldn’t lift a finger to help their fellow man. Although there are many wonderful people and organizations, we just don’t have the “reach” or the resources to do big things, like cover people for health care.
What I would love to see is more and more LOCAL government involvement, and less and less federal government interference. Less bureaucracy and more accountability. And hopefully at the local level, the various aid organizations would not duplicate efforts-they could work together to make sure that everyone is covered adequately.
What I would love to see is more and more LOCAL government involvement, and less and less federal government interference. Less bureaucracy and more accountability. And hopefully at the local level, the various aid organizations would not duplicate efforts-they could work together to make sure that everyone is covered adequately.
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ewohdrol
Guest
I strongly disagree. I think two adults should be able to work fulltime and be able to pay rent, eat adequate food and pay for health care.
Parents having to work more than one job just to make ends meet is not in the best interest for families. To suggest people shouldn’t have children until this can be met is both disingenuous and unrealistic. It also doesn’t account for change in circumstance.
We need people to do simplistic or unskilled tasks. That should not doom them to live under the poverty line. Christianity surely requires us to provide a fair wage for the work done.
Australia has a minimim wage of $18 per hour. Our $$ is similar to the US. We simply do not the crime rate or homeless problem the US does. I imagine being able to afford to live (albeit simply) would help with this rather sad problem.
Parents having to work more than one job just to make ends meet is not in the best interest for families. To suggest people shouldn’t have children until this can be met is both disingenuous and unrealistic. It also doesn’t account for change in circumstance.
We need people to do simplistic or unskilled tasks. That should not doom them to live under the poverty line. Christianity surely requires us to provide a fair wage for the work done.
Australia has a minimim wage of $18 per hour. Our $$ is similar to the US. We simply do not the crime rate or homeless problem the US does. I imagine being able to afford to live (albeit simply) would help with this rather sad problem.
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Peeps
Guest
Yes, I agree that many families in the U.S. are fourth or fifth generation non-working, non-high-school grads.
I think that we need to recognize the role that slavery played, and also the disastrous attempts at reconstruction after the war. This is about 140 years ago, but that is only 4 or 5 generations back. And in the early 20th century until fairly recently, African Americans were on very shaky ground, and had little or no help from our court system. Instead, they were threatened, attacked and lynched.
So many African American families still have memories of family members who were tortured or killed, and it’s no wonder that they have a hard time embracing the American economic system. For them it wasn’t a path to a better life. And it’s no wonder that they don’t have an innate sense of the best way to achieve financial success–for them, doing well in school or on the job didn’t necessarily mean success in the working world. Quite the opposite–it might have meant threats from whites who accused them of “being uppity.”
But African Americans aren’t the only group in the U.S. who have a hard time climbing out of poverty. I think that the book Hillbilly Elegy does a wonderful job revealing how “poor white trash” just never seems to get anywhere in our American system.
And of course, there are plenty of people who are capable of living on their own, but have diagnosed mental and psychological disorders that make if virtually impossible for them to hold down any kind of full time job and supporting themselves. To me, this group is especially deserving of our loving care and support.
And of course, there are the elderly, many who have outlived their pensions and retirement savings, and who are beset with illnesses and infirmities. These people deserve to be cared for and given respect and love until their natural death.
And as you mentioned, there are children who are born into wretched situations, with single parent families, criminal (gang or mob) families, and addicted families. In our community, 70% of our crimes originate in domestic violence settings. So sad.
So yes, there are people who fall through the cracks. This makes it all the more imperative that we help those who ARE capable of succeeding to get there as soon as they can so that they can join the rest of us who are trying to help those who will probably never be able to earn a living wage.
I think that we need to recognize the role that slavery played, and also the disastrous attempts at reconstruction after the war. This is about 140 years ago, but that is only 4 or 5 generations back. And in the early 20th century until fairly recently, African Americans were on very shaky ground, and had little or no help from our court system. Instead, they were threatened, attacked and lynched.
So many African American families still have memories of family members who were tortured or killed, and it’s no wonder that they have a hard time embracing the American economic system. For them it wasn’t a path to a better life. And it’s no wonder that they don’t have an innate sense of the best way to achieve financial success–for them, doing well in school or on the job didn’t necessarily mean success in the working world. Quite the opposite–it might have meant threats from whites who accused them of “being uppity.”
But African Americans aren’t the only group in the U.S. who have a hard time climbing out of poverty. I think that the book Hillbilly Elegy does a wonderful job revealing how “poor white trash” just never seems to get anywhere in our American system.
And of course, there are plenty of people who are capable of living on their own, but have diagnosed mental and psychological disorders that make if virtually impossible for them to hold down any kind of full time job and supporting themselves. To me, this group is especially deserving of our loving care and support.
And of course, there are the elderly, many who have outlived their pensions and retirement savings, and who are beset with illnesses and infirmities. These people deserve to be cared for and given respect and love until their natural death.
And as you mentioned, there are children who are born into wretched situations, with single parent families, criminal (gang or mob) families, and addicted families. In our community, 70% of our crimes originate in domestic violence settings. So sad.
So yes, there are people who fall through the cracks. This makes it all the more imperative that we help those who ARE capable of succeeding to get there as soon as they can so that they can join the rest of us who are trying to help those who will probably never be able to earn a living wage.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
Surely if a working man can’t support his family then that means the system of work and society is failing?
Also given that most other societies offer paid maternity leave why is it seen as impossible?
Also given that most other societies offer paid maternity leave why is it seen as impossible?
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Augustinian
Guest
We do have temporary paid maternity leave in the United States- through the government.
Its called the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
I’m guessing the woman wouldn’t be able to return to an equivalent of her job at the end of it though?
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Augustinian
Guest
Employers have to hold the job for 12 weeks by federal law, but it really depends on the employer’s policies- they can certainly hold it for a lot longer if the want to.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
Do you think there could be a move towards more employers doing so? My concern would be if such a thing were left to the discretion of an employer it would be the lower paid jobs that are less likely to and poorer women would be disadvantaged.
blackforest
Well-known member
TANF is a failed program that needs to be overhauled. Its block grants to states haven’t even adjusted for inflation since the mid-90s.
Editing to add: The whole point of TANF was to pay women a lot less than any employer in order to “encourage” them to get back to work.
Editing to add: The whole point of TANF was to pay women a lot less than any employer in order to “encourage” them to get back to work.
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Augustinian
Guest
TANF Is a temporary aid program that President Clinton established to replace the AFDC program in 1996.
The “T” is the key, it means “temporary”.
It provides some cash benefits to help families for a relatively short period of time. However, recipients of TANF also can receive Medicaid benefits which can add up to many thousands of dollars, Food Stamps, WIC benefits, subsidized housing in project apartments, fuel assistance for the winter heating season.
When looked at in the whole, the program could probably be streamlined because of all of the complexity, but the aid provided isn’t insignificant at all.
The “T” is the key, it means “temporary”.
It provides some cash benefits to help families for a relatively short period of time. However, recipients of TANF also can receive Medicaid benefits which can add up to many thousands of dollars, Food Stamps, WIC benefits, subsidized housing in project apartments, fuel assistance for the winter heating season.
When looked at in the whole, the program could probably be streamlined because of all of the complexity, but the aid provided isn’t insignificant at all.
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JimG
Guest
I don’t know. Lately it .seems that every store, every restaurant, every business small or large that I go into has a sign in the window saying “now hiring.” Companies are advertising on TV for workers. Companies from the smallest to the largest are complaining that they can’t get enough workers. Trades such as plumbers, welders, construction work, even aviation manufacturers are looking for employees. And they can’t get enough applicants. And still I know people who say they can’t find work. Where is the vaunted American work ethic?
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ewohdrol
Guest
Exaxtly Lucy. Families should be able to survive on minimum wage without going broke. We advocate for large families but give no realistic hope for families to achieve it.
Once again in Australia we have mandatory 16 weeks maternity pay from the government. Plus many employers offer their own scheme. I had at 42 weeks half pay after the birth of my first. It is the norm and I don’t see employers going redundant over it. We also have a generous parenting leave scheme. I had my job held for 5 years (which I will add a disclaimer is very generous compared to others).
We also have free healthcare. To not provide basic heath care for individual in a rich society is incredibly unchristian. I suspect many won’t agree with me here
I get really confused when people in catholic threads like this argue how the onis is placed squarely on the individual to better themselves. Especially when we know the mental health and social realities our under privileged face.
Once again in Australia we have mandatory 16 weeks maternity pay from the government. Plus many employers offer their own scheme. I had at 42 weeks half pay after the birth of my first. It is the norm and I don’t see employers going redundant over it. We also have a generous parenting leave scheme. I had my job held for 5 years (which I will add a disclaimer is very generous compared to others).
We also have free healthcare. To not provide basic heath care for individual in a rich society is incredibly unchristian. I suspect many won’t agree with me here
I get really confused when people in catholic threads like this argue how the onis is placed squarely on the individual to better themselves. Especially when we know the mental health and social realities our under privileged face.
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JimG
Guest
I recall that Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Rerum Novarum advocated for a living wage for a wage earner. Of course, his idea was that the wager earner should be paid enough to support his family, so that the wife wuould not have to work. And even when I started my first job, some employers had a policiy of paying married men more than single men for the same job, because they had a family to support. That would have been in accord with Leo’s idea of a living wage. But now because of equal pay laws, such a wage differential would be illegal. A living wage for a family of one is quite different from a living wage for a family of four or eight.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
I hear from Mexican immigrants a lot that it’s very stressful here in the states because all they do is work and pay bills. Somehow they say, back in Mexico, there is more time made for family. A co worker from a small village told me that you do not necessarily have to work everyday where he is from because all you have to do is work to eat but everyone owns their own property and they do not pay rent or property taxes.
It really made me realize that perhaps we are overworked and do kind of live to work here in The USA. But I never thought of that before because it’s all I ever knew. I would go years without missing a day of work. I still go years without asking for a day off. I never take a vacation except when I’m laid off because I work in construction so lay off are common when a job is done. I did not even take the day off when my Grandpa (the man who raised me since I was a baby) died. Why? Because I was not getting paid well and could not afford it and I was taught that you never miss work.
I’m scared to death to have to ask for two weeks off when I get married in 4 months because presumably I will be with a new employer and I will have to ask for time off so close to just getting hired.
The heck with it though. I’m just a hard working American.
It really made me realize that perhaps we are overworked and do kind of live to work here in The USA. But I never thought of that before because it’s all I ever knew. I would go years without missing a day of work. I still go years without asking for a day off. I never take a vacation except when I’m laid off because I work in construction so lay off are common when a job is done. I did not even take the day off when my Grandpa (the man who raised me since I was a baby) died. Why? Because I was not getting paid well and could not afford it and I was taught that you never miss work.
I’m scared to death to have to ask for two weeks off when I get married in 4 months because presumably I will be with a new employer and I will have to ask for time off so close to just getting hired.
The heck with it though. I’m just a hard working American.
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