What is your opinion on the use of birth control in ANTICIPATION of being raped?

[LaSainte]

In places in South Africa (Johannesburg), a woman has a 50/50 chance of being raped in her lifetime. 1/3 of women have been raped in the last year. 37% of males ADMIT to having raped someone and 7% have been involved in “jackrolling” or gang rape, which 30% of male students describe as “fun”. A woman there is also as likely to be raped as she is to learn to read.

So yes, there are places in the world so horrible that it is not simply a matter of “not putting oneself in that situation”.

 

[Corki]

Let’s be precise; condoms are not permissible when used for contraception. If one of the partners was sterile, i.e. had a hysterectomy, the couple could use condoms in a morally acceptable manner.

…although, one might question why they might do so. I dunno, maybe they like the pretty colors. Be that as it may, it’s contraception that is objectionable, not necessarily the condom use itself.

I don’t think that’s correct. We had a thread on this recently and documentation was presented on Church teaching. A married couple can’t, for example, use a condom to prevent disease even if the woman is post menopausal. Within marriage, the condom used during the marriage act is still preventing the act from being procreative and unitive.

 

[copperblade]

I don’t think that’s correct. We had a thread on this recently and documentation was presented on Church teaching. A married couple can’t, for example, use a condom to prevent disease even if the woman is post menopausal. Within marriage, the condom used during the marriage act is still preventing the act from being procreative and unitive.

Oh come on! That is just ridiculous.

 

[LaSainte]

I don’t think that’s correct. We had a thread on this recently and documentation was presented on Church teaching. A married couple can’t, for example, use a condom to prevent disease even if the woman is post menopausal. Within marriage, the condom used during the marriage act is still preventing the act from being procreative and unitive.

I SO do not get this.

I think the Church believes it to be a slippery slope. You start allowing sterile married couples to use condoms to prevent the spread of disease and suddenly they think it will be some sort of free-for-all. Sterile couples having anal sex, oral sex, then pregnant couples doing the same, dogs and cats living together…mass hysteria!

The semen HAS to end up in the vagina. To start allowing otherwise for any reason would begin to erode the argument that the Church is trying to make.

 

[Corki]

I SO do not get this.

I think the Church believes it to be a slippery slope. You start allowing sterile married couples to use condoms to prevent the spread of disease and suddenly they think it will be some sort of free-for-all. Sterile couples having anal sex, oral sex, then pregnant couples doing the same, dogs and cats living together…mass hysteria!

The semen HAS to end up in the vagina. To start allowing otherwise for any reason would begin to erode the argument that the Church is trying to make.

I am sure that there is a slippery slope argument to be made. But the main point is that it is wrong to put a barrier between a man and wife. Married sex is supposed to be unitive and procreative. Condoms nullify both aspects.

 

[Abu]

The fixation on the condom is seen for what it is by Pope Benedict XVI as Phil Lawler explains at: catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=735
“Why didn’t he (the Pope) condemn the drive to accept recreational sex, and rely on condoms for safety? Why didn’t he say something like this:

“This means that the sheer fixation on the condom implies a banalization of sexuality, which, after all, is precisely the dangerous source of the attitude of no longer seeing sexuality as the expression of love, but only a sort of drug that people administer to themselves.

“The above paragraph, of course, is exactly what Pope Benedict did say—in the paragraph directly preceding the one that’s caused all the fuss. Find it on page 119 of Light of the World.”

 

[centurionguard]

When I look through many of the posts in this thread I don’t see any reason to answer the the OP as towhether any form of (“birth control”) is ridiculously helpful in thwarting the ANTICIPATION of Raping ANY individual.

Statistically MEN far outnumber any gender as being the culprit totally responsible for the selfish crime of RAPE on a global scale.

No one can argue this statistical fact. It’s fine damned time to put away childish behaviors from men who are always blaming woman for dressing this way or that when men (“Rapist”) don’t know how to keep their business in their pants.

Verily MEN are the only true gender who hold the power and constraint of stopping the Rape of Women, Children, and Men in this confounded world.

**If a woman is drunk, don’t rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don’t rape her.
If a women is drugged and unconscious, don’t rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don’t rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don’t rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you’re still hung up on, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in your bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don’t rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don’t rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don’t rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don’t rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching tv, don’t rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don’t rape her.
If your friend thinks it’s okay to rape someone, tell him it’s not, and that he’s not your friend.
If your “friend” tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there’s an unconscious woman upstairs and It’s your turn, don’t rape her, call the police and tell the guy he’s a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it’s not okay to rape someone.
Don’t tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.
Don’t imply that she could have avoided it if she’d only done/not done x.
Don’t imply that it’s in any way her fault.
Don’t let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he “got some” with the drunk girl.
Don’t perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.
**

MEN CAN STOP RAPE

mencanstoprape.org/

 

[JaneGrey]

When I look through many of the posts in this thread I don’t see any reason to answer the the OP as the whether any form of (“birth control”) is ridiculously helpful in thwarting the ANTICIPATION of Raping ANY individual.

Statistically MEN far outnumber any gender as being the culprit totally responsible for the selfish crime of RAPE on a global scale.

No one can argue this statistical fact. It’s fine damned time to put away childish behaviors from men who are always blaming woman for dressing this way or that when men (“Rapist”) don’t know how to keep their business in their pants.

Verily MEN are the only true gender who hold the power and constraint of stopping the Rape of Women, Children, and Men in this confounded world.

mencanstoprape.org/

Centurionguard, have you come across this thread yet? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=570100&page=16 It is related to rape as well. Just thought that your views, especially as expressed in this post above, would be very relevant there especially.

 

[centurionguard]

Centurionguard, have you come across this thread yet? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=570100&page=16 It is related to rape as well. Just thought that your views, especially as expressed in this post above, would be very relevant there especially.

Hello Jane;

When it comes to the topic of Rape and placing blame, people especially men will always dance around and redirect some thought provoking solution, rather than look at the obvious solution in plain sight when it comes to stopping Rape.

Rapist; most of whom are Men and even potential rapist whom themselves have considered raping will never self-condemn themselves as not only being the root of the problem and source of the crime of Rape but also the solution to stopping Rape.

Peace
Chris

 

[Betterave]

Remember my OP. I would like this thread to be about contraception. not abortion or murder or beginning of life or any of that stuff.

This thread is about prophylactic contraception vs emergency contraception vs doing nothing. Your opinions on if there are circumstances that might justify using contraception. If the ends would ever justify the means. That sort of thing.

That is what this thread is about. Please start a new thread if you wish to discuss the controversy of whether contragestion is abortion. Thank you.

p.s. the thing with the nuns was very interesting as well as relevent so any discussion of that is more than welcome.

This comment seems a bit silly. Contragestion is abortion. I’m not interested in discussing it, I’m just pointing out the fact. And you can’t seriously want/hope to have a discussion about: “prophylactic contraception vs emergency contraception vs doing nothing; your opinions on if there are circumstances that might justify using contraception; if the ends would ever justify the means; that sort of thing” - while avoiding a discussion of the actual nature of the various means and ends that are relevant in these situations?

 

[Betterave]

Any person who psychologically puts themselves in the situation believing there is a high likely-hood of becoming raped is sorely born out of fear itself.

There are ways to help prevent oneself from being raped.

However; there’s a higher chance that Anybody can and definitively will be raped.
And Not Just Exclusively Women

Your ridiculous statement of **Carry guns, walking in threes and blowing the rapist away **won’t guarantee stopping the outrageously high statistical occurrence of rape.

No where in the world has there been a sustainable claim that says Guns can Stop Rape.

One Rape Every Three Seconds in the United States.
Seven People are Raped Every Second On The Continent of Africa

No human system of Justice is capable of stopping Rape or Incest anymore than human justice is capable of stopping Murder.

Personally; in this evil world of selfish greed and pride, there is no cure to stopping global rape in the same way there is no human cure to stopping global poverty.

Christian Morality offers a cure but only to few who accept it.

(Many are called; Few are chosen).

where did you get these absurd statistics?

USA: 1 rapes per 3 seconds * 3600 s/hr * 24 hr/day * 365 days/year = 10.5 million rapes per year? Do you seriously believe that?

And 220 million per year in Africa? Any time you are reading rape statistics, please be careful about accepting them unquestioningly. This is a very political issue and there is a lot of falsehood being peddled.

 

[Betterave]

Hello Jane;

When it comes to the topic of Rape and placing blame, people especially men will always dance around and redirect some thought provoking solution, rather than look at the obvious solution in plain sight when it comes to stopping Rape.

Rapist; most of whom are Men and even potential rapist whom themselves have considered raping will never self-condemn themselves as not only being the root of the problem and source of the crime of Rape but also the solution to stopping Rape.

Peace
Chris

That’s obviously a really silly analysis, I’d say: “Men are the problem; therefore men are the solution”?

Really, to call it silly is putting it kindly. You might as well say: “Criminals are the problem, therefore criminals are the solution.” Or “Mental illness is the problem; therefore mental illness is the solution.” Or “Sin is the problem, therefore sin is the solution.” How does what you’ve written even begin to make sense or to address the problem?

You also seem to have contradicted your earlier comments insofar as you suggest here that there is a solution to the problem of rape (indeed, an obvious one!).

Also, the suggestion you made earlier that guns don’t prevent rape seems to be part of a general attitude that there is nothing that women can do to avoid being raped. And that, I’m quite certain, is nonsense.

 

[centurionguard]

That’s obviously a really silly analysis, I’d say: “Men are the problem; therefore men are the solution”?

Really, to call it silly is putting it kindly. You might as well say: “Criminals are the problem, therefore criminals are the solution.” Or “Mental illness is the problem; therefore mental illness is the solution.” Or “Sin is the problem, therefore sin is the solution.” How does what you’ve written even begin to make sense or to address the problem?

You also seem to have contradicted your earlier comments insofar as you suggest here that there is a solution to the problem of rape (indeed, an obvious one!).

Also, the suggestion you made earlier that guns don’t prevent rape seems to be part of a general attitude that there is nothing that women can do to avoid being raped. And that, I’m quite certain, is nonsense.

Then I take it you don’t believe that MEN are the biggest advocates of Rape Crime.

Or is it that your avoiding the issue taking a chauvinistic stance thinking woman bring rape upon themselves.

Please Do Explain yourself

Men are the problem cause to Rape as much as they are the Solution to stopping Rape

 

[Betterave]

Then I take it you don’t believe that MEN are the biggest advocates of Rape Crime.

No, that was not implied by anything I said.

Or is it that your avoiding the issue taking a chauvinistic stance thinking woman bring rape upon themselves.

Again, that’s clearly not what I said. Why would you claim otherwise?
**

Please Do Explain yourself

Men are the problem cause to Rape as much as they are the Solution to stopping Rape**
I pointed out that this claim that you make is nonsensical and does not even begin to present a real solution - so you go ahead and repeat the same claim? You’ve already expressed scorn for “thought provoking solutions” and thus for thought itself. I suggest dropping that attitude and trying to get a little more rationally disciplined in what you’re posting here.

 

[TimothyH]

where did you get these absurd statistics?

USA: 1 rapes per 3 seconds * 3600 s/hr * 24 hr/day * 365 days/year = 10.5 million rapes per year? Do you seriously believe that?

And 220 million per year in Africa? Any time you are reading rape statistics, please be careful about accepting them unquestioningly. This is a very political issue and there is a lot of falsehood being peddled.

Well done.

-Tim-

 

[centurionguard]

Betterave:
No, that was not implied by anything I said.

Again, that’s clearly not what I said. Why would you claim otherwise?
**
I pointed out that this claim that you make is nonsensical and does not even begin to present a real solution - so you go ahead and repeat the same claim? You’ve already expressed scorn for “thought provoking solutions” and thus for thought itself. I suggest dropping that attitude and trying to get a little more rationally disciplined in what you’re posting here.**

My apologies; then how about what is rationally implies at this site in Africa

mencanstoprape.org/ where the highest statistical Rape occurrences of the world.

Where Seven people (“Women, Children and Men”) are Raped every second.

The only other intervention that would stop Rape, Incest, Murder and every other vile despicable injustice to innocent people would be direct intervention from Jesus Christ Himself.

With everything good that can be said about Christian Morality I fail to see how the human sin allotted to Rape can be stopped.

In the full time humans have allotted here on earth before Judgment Day its impossible for humans to stop such travesty.

Rape is a human reality that will go on til the end of this world.

You’ll have to forgive me but I feel somewhat like Job being a dumb child of God lacking understanding and most importantly I’m not asking God to force His hand.

Sometimes I get caught up with great emotion due to the fact that I myself am a Victim of Gang-Rape at Gunpoint and Torture.

There’s so much mind boggling great sin in this world that offends God.

Perhaps this is why God doesn’t choose to intervene when people become Victims of Rape, Incest, and every other conceivable Sexual Abuse.

So, so many uncountable Souls have turned there backs on God.

 

[samiam1611]

When I look through many of the posts in this thread I don’t see any reason to answer the the OP as towhether any form of (“birth control”) is ridiculously helpful in thwarting the ANTICIPATION of Raping ANY individual.

Uh. I think you may have misunderstood my OP. Of course taking birth control would not be helpful in stopping rape. But it would be helpful in stopping unwanted pregnancies that result from rape. As I said in the OP, preventing rape would be ideal. Prevents STDs and pregnancy would be second best. Preventing pregnancy would be 3rd best. All 3 of these issues can be tackled but the most feasible - the one with the greater chance of success - is the 3rd option bc the woman can take control of her fertility. And I wanted to see if you guys would stand by the Church’s ban on contraception or see it like me, which is that this ban, if it is followed, is more harmful than helpful.

 

[Rence]

I was wondering about that. The tests I mean. As I noted before, a woman is not pregnant until it implants - in other words, she could have conceived, but have a negative pregnancy test. You probably knew that;

The pregnancy test is merely to assess whether or not she was pregnant already from before the rape.

my question with the LH though is, if the LH level was high, how could you know if a woman is on the upswing of the LH surge or the downswing, without a previous specimen? Furthermore, some (most?) hospitals don’t test for LH on site, they send it out to reference labs. This takes several days so isn’t really helpful since emergency contraception works better the sooner after intercourse it is taken.

Most hospitals don’t have the LH test, and wouldn’t have a reason in the world to use it anyway. They wouldn’t require it, and would give the plan B at the request of the patient. The Catholic Church is the only entity that would require it. Therefore, secular hospitals may not have it at all, and most staff wouldn’t know about the Church requirements. It would be up to the patient to ask for the test, and make a decision based on whether or not the test was available, and further, to make the decision after the test results were told to her.

Most Catholic hospitals would have the test, if they even carry the Plan B, and then the patient may be dependent on the scrupulosity of the caregivers delivering her care no matter what the test outcomes are.

I personally (and this is only my opinion) would steer clear of Catholic hopsitals for after-rape care. Thankfully, all the area surrounding hospitals where I live are all secular. I’d really have to go out of my way to even get to a Catholic hospital.

 

[Rence]

The LH surge is very brief and usually lasts about a day, often less than that. And it can be measured with a rapid test. Even if there was a need for a lab, most hospitals have one.

I think I mentioned this in another thread, but ultrasound is another tool used to detect ovulation. In practice, I am not sure what a Catholic hospital actually does, but both of these tests can be done quickly and easily.

But I’m not sure an insurance company would cover the cost of using an ultrasound for this reason. That might cost the patient quite a bit if it’s not covered…you can’t just get any test without a proper diagnosis that matches it. If the hospital has a pregnancy test available and a rapid test available, the insurance company is likely to deny covering an ultrasound. If the rapid test is not available, an ultrasound might be covered…

 

[Rence]

No wonder non-Catholics laugh at us.

We have a Church teaching that states the use of ABC to prevent pregnancy and also to prevent disease is forbidden and then a local group of bishops come alone and say well its okay if the pregnancy to be prevented would happen if a woman is raped.

Well I’m sorry but despite the tragic and devastating effect of a rape on a woman, if a pregancy happens it is not the fault of the new human life which should be protected.

I understand where you are coming from but the guidelines from the Bishops not a contradiction if you think about it logically. The use of emergency contraception is to prevent conception, not destroy an already fertilized egg. That’s why they require the pregnancy test and the LH test if it’s available. The Bishops don’t allow it if the woman thinks she is or is about to ovulate. This doesn’t change Church teaching forbidding contraception.