What is your stand on gun ownership?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pag_Hingowa
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
thistle said:
No matter what country there are two things a person does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand:
  • Guns are not a deterrent
Click to expand...
You may not think guns are a deterrent, but you can bet your last dollar that if someone assaults me or my family, it’s the absolute last thing they will do. That’s deterring and yes, I have guns and yes, I carry and yes, I won’t hesitate to protect myself, my family, or my friends.l
 
Gun control laws only affect people who are honest enough to follow them in the first place. They do nothing to deter criminals from having guns. As if someone who is willing to rob you, rape you, or kill you cares about laws restricting their right to carry a gun.

Here are some stats that were published in a Aussie news paper about 4 years ago:
*It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.
(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in “successfully ridding Australian society of guns.”

*The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Switzerland = lots of guns. Low crime
Mexico = guns are illegal. High crime
Britain = guns are restricted severely. crime has gone up steadily since this was implemented
Australia = guns are restricted severely. crime has gone up steadily since this was implemented
America = state by state and even city by city. Those with the strictest gun laws are the ones with the highest violent crime.

Oh, and the Philippines have always been a violent culture. The arrival of Americans did nothing to add to that.

“To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them…” George Mason
 
Methinks there are three trains of thought on gun ownership:
  1. Those that hate guns anytime, anywhere, even for those in need of personal protection, except for law enforcement officers.
  2. Those, like myself, who don’t currently own a firearm but are perhaps “circumstantial” in our thinking i.e. that there are people who would be dangerous with a firearms and shouldn’t have them, and there are people for whom owning a firearm is a near-necessity and there are those somewhere inbetween.
  3. Those who might be described as “you can pull my firearm from my cold dead fingers”, those who would own and carry a firearm “just because something might happen”, and those who think that we are under an obligation to arm ourselves regardless of our individual risk.
🤷
 
Texas
Ownership is not only legal, it is all but expected in many parts of the state.

Concealed Carry is legal with a license and a class (I forget, but I think it is about 12 hrs for license and 6-8 for 2 year renewal). Our Capital has an express lane for license holders (to avoid the normal security metal detectors). It is legal to carry in places of worship unless specifically and legally posted otherwise (I have never seen a legal posting. I did see a posting about leaving firearms in cars at one Catholic Church, but it was next to one of the largest gun ranges in the US - that posting was only valid for the cars however, not concealed carry).

Hunter’s Ed is mostly required (to get a licenses to hunt), if you were born after 1970 - it includes a large firearm safety competent.

I teach youth firearm safety, as unsafe handling causes easily avoidable accidents.​

fwiw, I keep all firearms in the house safely locked up. I have 4 kids in the house, and tons of friends of kids. My wife has taken her concealed carry class, but does not carry. My two older step kids shoot competitively, my 2 younger kids are 4 and 7 months - so they do not.

My wife was threatened in a parking lot several weeks ago. Afterwards she was once again seriously considering starting to carry. It is a lifestyle choice which I don’t think she will make.
 
thistle said:
No matter what country there are two things a person does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand:
  • Guns are not a deterrent
  • Death penalty is not a deterrent
Click to expand...
I still wonder why “deterrence” is still being thrown around for either of these issues given that it really isn’t effective, and neither should they be “deterrents” anyway.

We own guns to disable or kill those who would otherwise harm us or our loved ones, not to scare them away, although if we manage to scare them, that’s a bonus. To maim or kill in this context is moral under Catholic teaching.

We execute people to punish them for their crimes, not to scare would-be criminals from committing crimes, but if it works to that effect, that’s a bonus too. The death penalty is moral under Catholic teaching (and yes, I know what the Catechism says).
 
Pag_Hingowa said:
I suppose most cimes happened outside the house.
Click to expand...
Not in my case. they were trying to break into my home. The very distinctive “kerchunk” of my shotgun stopped them. They ran away.

In my area of the country, not as much violent street crime----more home invasions. It’s why a lot of people have dogs here. Dogs are supposed to be an effective deterrent. However, I rented an apartment, and wasn’t allowed to have pets.
 
The_Joe said:
That’s funny, the only people to point a gun at me were cops. The reason why we have a right to bear arms in America is because of the need to protect ourselves from the tyranny of a hypocritical government. Am I the only one who remembers this? Also, I hate guns and will never touch one. I believe that the truth goes where a bullet can’t travel. Long story short, the progressives have mentally beated America down so much that we are no different then the Jews being led to slaughter. We’ve all heard the question asked about why the Jews never fought back and now you get to live with their mentality. Better yet, why are gun owners being blamed for the gun-trafficking of fast and furious? Probably because the Progressives need to get ride of the guns before the police start enforcing our British styled health system. Politians know the queen and union rights are more important then American values and as long as police place their faith in union money, it’s only going to get worse. If I am wrong about any of this stuff, then why is the Federal Reserve a privately held company that takes orders out of England?
Click to expand...
That’s funny, the only people to point a gun at me were cops.
Click to expand...
why did they do that? Because of the 2 nd amendment that you so much love. They feared that you might have guns. They have kids and family do you want them to be killed? You harvest what you sowed !!! When I see the brutality of the USA police I am shocked… It was inadmissible here in Europe…but you deserv every bit of it. Potentially, every american is a criminal, for with a gun he may shoot the police.
One more reason to erase the 2nd.

Sorry, you have been braiwashed into it. every American repeats the sentence:
The reason why we have a right to bear arms in America is because of the need to protect ourselves from the tyranny of a hypocritical government.
Click to expand...
on and on and on.

That is not written in the Constitution. And if it was, could you explain to me, please how, with your miserable rifle, are you going to fight the USA army?
Does it make sense?
Long story short, the progressives have mentally beated America down so much that we are no different then the Jews being led to slaughter.
Click to expand...
Godwin’s law. Please, you know nothing about history of the Holocaust !!!
Better yet, why are gun owners being blamed for the gun-trafficking of fast and furious? Probably because the Progressives need to get ride of the guns before the police start enforcing our British styled health system. Politians know the queen and union rights are more important then American values and as long as police place their faith in union money, it’s only going to get worse. If I am wrong about any of this stuff, then why is the Federal Reserve a privately held company that takes orders out of England?
Click to expand...
You have been brainwashed by the Media. What you say, passing Progressives-British-queen-UnionMoney-Worse-Federal Reserve-orders out of England.
Sorry, this does not make sense at all.
 
jwinch2 said:
I have a fire extinguisher because it takes a few minutes for the Fire Department to arrive, and seconds count.

I know CPR, First Aid, how to use an AED because it takes a few minutes for EMS to arrive, and seconds count.

I have guns because it takes the Police Department a few minutes to arrive, and seconds count.

Historically, societies which have seen the rise of dictatorship have been the ones where their right to own and carry arms was curtailed.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRiNIJ-GFSfU5ioyKxnKgdMlV0fhhzLvOK4cM37ReYV3ySkhcBK

A few quotes on the subject that I like:

*“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” Gandhi

“This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” Adolf Hitler, 1935

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?” Thomas Jefferson

“Democracy: is two Wolves and a Lamb discussing Whats for Dinner. Liberty: is a well Armed Lamb willing to Contest The Majority Decision.” Benjamin Franklin 1755

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” Patrick Henry*
Click to expand...
Godwin’s law for the worst.
That is the kind of irrational thniking to defen the non-defensible.
Look at your argument: Tyrants had gun control, so if you have no gun control you do not have tyrants. It is unbelievably irrational. You have chosen a few countries during a certain amount of time. And other 194 countries? What do you say of them?
 
Zooey said:
👍
USA.
My stand? I would be delighted if every sane & law-abiding householder were required to own a gun.

But I think that owning 2 or 3 or 6 is even better.👍👍
Click to expand...
I would be thrilled if we lived in a world where there was no evil and thus no reason to have a gun for defensive or military purposes. However, that is not representative of reality. There are some towns in America where ordinances were passed requiring all homes to have a gun and for all citizens of the town to get basic firearms training. Crime dropped to virtually zero inside of 6 months.

There are stories like this all over the country and the world.
 
Pag_Hingowa said:
Where do you live?
Do you have a legal right to own a gun?
What is the context of your country’s gun control law, if any?
Is it effective?
Click to expand...
  1. UK
  2. Me? No.
  3. Firearms are restricted to SPECIAL police units only. (Ordinary police units carry batons.) Private citizens in the countryside can use shotguns (e.g., for hunting), but it must be a minimum length, so it can’t be concealed.
  4. About 90% of the time it works. A little over a decade ago we banned private ownership when a man walked into a school with his gun and killed several children. After that people had to turn in their guns.
Gun crime is very rare here, as violent crime but also in disputed shootings between the police and private citizens. Most violent crime is knife crime (which is a serious problem in some cities), but at least, you’re more likely to survive a knife wound than a gunshot. I firmly agree with this policy even if odd mistakes happen. The UK Border Agency keeps things together so illegal guns rarely get in.

I think the U.S. needs to seriously revisit its firearms policy. It just doesn’t make sense to me. On the other hand, in the States you’ve the problem with federal law vs. state law, as opposed to a more unified government in the U.K.

In THAT case, since anyone could purchase a gun and transport it easily out-of-state, then I suppose your police need to be armed. But it shouldn’t be like that IMO.
 
Bezant said:
I think the U.S. needs to seriously revisit its firearms policy. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
Click to expand...
A great many people feel as you do, including here in the USA. Ultimately, I believe it comes down to how own views government, citizenry, and the relationship between them.
 
The_Joe said:
That’s funny, the only people to point a gun at me were cops. The reason why we have a right to bear arms in America is because of the need to protect ourselves from the tyranny of a hypocritical government. Am I the only one who remembers this? Also, I hate guns and will never touch one. I believe that the truth goes where a bullet can’t travel. Long story short, the progressives have mentally beated America down so much that we are no different then the Jews being led to slaughter. We’ve all heard the question asked about why the Jews never fought back and now you get to live with their mentality. Better yet, why are gun owners being blamed for the gun-trafficking of fast and furious? Probably because the Progressives need to get ride of the guns before the police start enforcing our British styled health system. Politians know the queen and union rights are more important then American values and as long as police place their faith in union money, it’s only going to get worse. If I am wrong about any of this stuff, then why is the Federal Reserve a privately held company that takes orders out of England?
Click to expand...
Oh, pleaaaaaaaaaase! I have to say this is the longest list of: “It’s their fault.”, I’ve ever seen. :eek: 😦
 
Bezant said:
  1. UK
  2. Me? No.
  3. Firearms are restricted to SPECIAL police units only. (Ordinary police units carry batons.) Private citizens in the countryside can use shotguns (e.g., for hunting), but it must be a minimum length, so it can’t be concealed.
  4. About 90% of the time it works. A little over a decade ago we banned private ownership when a man walked into a school with his gun and killed several children. After that people had to turn in their guns.
Gun crime is very rare here, as violent crime but also in disputed shootings between the police and private citizens. Most violent crime is knife crime (which is a serious problem in some cities), but at least, you’re more likely to survive a knife wound than a gunshot. I firmly agree with this policy even if odd mistakes happen. The UK Border Agency keeps things together so illegal guns rarely get in.

I think the U.S. needs to seriously revisit its firearms policy. It just doesn’t make sense to me. On the other hand, in the States you’ve the problem with federal law vs. state law, as opposed to a more unified government in the U.K.

In THAT case, since anyone could purchase a gun and transport it easily out-of-state, then I suppose your police need to be armed. But it shouldn’t be like that IMO.
Click to expand...
Gun crime rose 40% in the two years following the UK gun ban, and from the data I have seen, those numbers have stayed consistent. Those are numbers provided by your own Home Office. The same thing happened in Australia following their ban. Mexico banned guns years ago. How’s that working at lowering gun violence? Switzerland requires every home to have a gun. What’s their gun crime rate?

The simple truth is that it is people and culture that impart violence. Guns are just a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

I could kill people far easier by driving my car through a bus stop full of kids as compared to trying to walk into a school and shoot them if I was inclined to do so. I suppose in the UK if I did that, they would take everyone’s car away.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
why did they do that? Because of the 2 nd amendment that you so much love.
Click to expand...
Rights come with costs.
They have kids and family do you want them to be killed?
Click to expand...
What would make you think that the poster could possibly want that?
When I see the brutality of the USA police I am shocked…
Click to expand...
None of my encounters with the police have involved brutality; I’ve only ever seen them act quite professionally. Is that a comprehensive picture? No. Neither is yours.
It was inadmissible here in Europe…but you deserv every bit of it.
Click to expand...
I have lived abroad, my friend. Injustice can be found everywhere, including Europe.
Potentially, every american is a criminal, for with a gun he may shoot the police.
Click to expand...
Potentially, everyone with a knife, or a stick, or a rock, or a fist is a criminal. I’m sorry, but you’ve let your reason run away from you.
could you explain to me, please how, with your miserable rifle, are you going to fight the USA army?
Click to expand...
If enough of the populace is armed, it can make for very effective guerrilla warfare. At the very least, it gives people the option to die on their feet rather than living on their knees. I’m not sure if that sentiment will be appreciated by all.

Mind you, I’ve never bought a gun with the idea in mind that I could use it against a government grown tyrannical. My opposition to gun bans have to do with how a view the relationship between government and citizens.
 
chipeto said:
My opposition to gun bans have to do with how a view the relationship between government and citizens.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” Patrick Henry
 
Is it right to bare arms? Well yes and no. Yes we can use stats to show how we could have been oppressed by not owning guns, also we can show stats how we could have been the oppressor, but in the end the issue of right or wrong is when you come face to face with the Lord and he asks you “why do you have this gun”, you will need justification. So, lets remove laws of the land and politics on gun ownership and let the Lord determine if it’s right or wrong. Since this is a Catholic site our common foundation to answers would reflect our Lord’s will. We can use his disciples as an example in real life. Of course they didn’t have guns but they did have knives and swords.

Using Christ, is it documented whether Christ withheld those with him from being “strapped”? In “Mark 14:47 & Luke 22:50” when Christ was being arrested didn’t “One of them” cut off the ear of the Servant of the High Priest? Yes, this event happened in defense of Christ but even after Christ rebuked “the One” for his actions is it noted anywhere that he told them to discard the sword permanently, that it was wrong to have one? We can make many suppositions but we need to see the real life examples of our Lord as guidance. The right or wrong issues will be left in the hands of the user, but now the real decision will be, which I think most are looking for, determined by the political and social players of our community. As our environments change so will our needs to keep or rid ourselves of guns. You just can’t pick one side and say we have the answer because there will always be a different social/political environment that will call for different needs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top