What is your stand on gun ownership?

[TheRealJuliane]

You really need to work on your typing and spelling skills because your post makes very little sense but I will try and answer intelligently.

In order to understand scripture you must understand the context and in which it is written and the time it was written along with the customs and mores at the time. This is Church teaching. The same holds true for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. As pointed out by my brothers, atom bombs are armaments and firearms are arms; firearms are what the second amendment are addressing. Nuclear weapons did not exist at the time the documents were established. Get over the atom bomb reference because it is making your comments ignorant of facts and the issue at hand.

I can purchase full automatic weapons if I so desire. They are controlled not prohibited.

As is pointed out the 2A is to guarantee a free state and to allow citizaens to defend themselves against an oppressive government, the likes of which existed at the time the documents writing.

Also, the military is not allowed to be used against the citizenry as was pointed out.

The Supreme Court of the US has ruled that the police are not required to protect the citizen populace, have no requirement to act, and cannot be held liable for not acting to protect and intervene. We are responsible for our own protection.

You have no more understanding of the Constitution and BOR as I have of any German equivalent. I could care less what you europeans do with your socialist tact and can care less. American blood was spilled in two world wars defeating Germany and you owe your freedom to us. It is a debt you take for granted and can never repay.****

You are welcome. Enjoy your freedom. Only two individuals have ever died for you, Jesus Christ and the American fighting man. One for your sins, the other for your freedom. Get over it.

Eddie Mac

After seeing the American cemetery above Omaha Beach, and crying many tears for all those soldiers who died, I realized just how much debt Europe owes us indeed.

I am so sick and tired of Europeans telling us what heathens we are, how stupid we are, how uncivilized we are. They didn’t say that as we saved their rear ends from fascism.

I guess this thread has died a natural death, so I will leave it as well. But your post was a good one.

 

[jwinch2]

Do you think it is a right of yours to have a gun to kill me? funny, Funny, VERY FUNNY !!!
And the right to bear a gun was given by GOD? That is why the Pope (you are Catholic no?) carries always a gun on waist, bishops and priests go to mass with a gun, do not see it as ridiculous as that?
I see that you belong to the Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, so you cannot but defend that. What else can one expect from you? A drunk person defends alcohol, a drug dealer drugs, a Yankee supporter, the Yankees as the best of the world, a poligamist, poligamy and so on.
Tell me, when there were no guns, 2000 years ago, where was the right to bear guns?
Tell me, do I have a right to carry an atomic bomb, when they make a suitcase size one? Is carrying an atomic bomb a God given RIGHT, I repeat, atomic-bomb-God-given-right?

this

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

continued…

I do not know what sentence you are referring to, but I haven’t memorized anything of the sort and I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself.

At the risk of coming across, once again, as some anti-government wacko, I am going to call shenanigans on this. I have been a soldier. If someone is shooting at you, you do not ‘knock him out of his senses and send him back to work’. You shoot back. Period.

Again, you are ascribing to me an argument that I never made. I never said that I expected such a thing. Since you ask, however, I will say that I don’t think any system of government can render tyranny impossible.

But I feel that I must mention once again that the whole tyranny angle is an academic one for me.

At any rate, please allow me to apologize if I have offended you, which it seems I must have done.

Confusing. Let’s do reset. Switch on.
Where is the concept the tyranny in the 2nd amendment?
Where does it say that the guns are to defend the individual and not the State?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Since they didn’t exist 1,000 years ago it couldn’t be in any constitution.

What country are you in? I want to make sure my children never go to school there.

Since the first Constitution, there were no Constitutions. So the first Constitution could not exist and coul not appear !!! Funny what you say !!!
Your children would choose otherwise (no, they would miss their dad!) for there is much less crime here that in your country.
But if you have guns, you are a potential danger to other children’s safety. I have heard too many news of America involving adults, children and guns, including in Columbine and University.

 

[SirJack]

Gun ownership is well controlled in my neck of the woods. (Victoria, Australia.) I know only two people who own guns. One is a naval officer. The other is a hunter. Neither carries their weapon unless when required. One keeps his gun at the base, the other keeps it in his home. Both are locked in combination safes. Clearly they are not intended for protection.

I have had several loved ones be victims of violent crime. In the past year one of my cousins lost a his spleen and another lost his eye. They were attacked - on different occasions - within the city, and by angry drunks who carried knives.

Both were attacked within 50 metres of armed police. The presence of the police did not prevent the crime, although the police’s action may have saved their lives.

People who solve problems through violent means will use violence (duh), but I am grateful that they only had access to knives rather than guns - if only because only one person could be injured at a time rather than several. Granted, people shouldn’t carry knives - and the police, to their credit, are cracking down on knife carrying.

I don’t want to own a gun, and I am skeptical about the value of guns for personal safety. But that is largely because I live in a wealthy, first-world, highly urbanised country.

I think gun control is prudent, although I do not believe that gun control is a panacea for violent crime.

 

[Calgar]

Columbine and University.

A crime perpetrated by criminals.

Has your country found a way to prevent criminals from committing crimes?

 

[Calgar]

Be nice. Snarky comments aren’t going to help your case any more than his comments have helped him…

I’m pretty sure we’re dealing with a troll.

Or possibly a martian…

 

[promethius]

I’m pretty sure we’re dealing with a troll.

Or possibly a martian…

He’s from Germany. He’s not a troll.

Ich bin sicher, sein Englisch ist besser als die meisten unserer Deutsch.

 

[Calgar]

He’s from Germany. He’s not a troll.

Ich bin sicher, sein Englisch ist besser als die meisten unserer Deutsch.

My german is fine.

As to being a troll: Accusing responsible gun owners of being murderers who like killing people is troll behavior.

I do think he is projecting though. He knows that he wouldn’t be able to keep himself from committing violence so he assumes it’s the same for everyone.

 

[promethius]

My german is fine.

I’m glad you got that!

As to being a troll: Accusing responsible gun owners of being murderers who like killing people is troll behavior.

Meh, it’s actually just a common western European mind-set. I tried explaning it to some of the british army guys I worked with on deployment… never could seem to get through their heads that we weren’t a bunch of cowboys with a fetish for shooting people… and that doesn’t even approach the attitudes I saw when I lived in Europe for a year and a half…

But he really posts too seriously on a plethora of other topics to be a troll. The guy is a prodigious poster.

I do think he is projecting though. He knows that he wouldn’t be able to keep himself from committing violence so he assumes it’s the same for everyone.

That may be the case, certainly.

 

[Mar044]

a gun should be owned if it has a purpose, if you need to hunt, or if your more then 10min away from help from police to defend your family.

and as a criminologist, most crimes are not committed by a knife, it’s most commonly committed by the most accessible weapon available.

 

[Calgar]

a gun should be owned if it has a purpose if your more then 10min away from help from police to defend your family.

I don’t know about canadian police, but police in America have no responsibility to put themselves in harms way to protect you or your family.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

Also, a PD on the next street over can take well over an hour to respond. I don’t know any station that’s got a 10 minute response.

P.S. Do you think it takes 10 minutes to harm someone?

 

[Calgar]

Meh, it’s actually just a common western European mind-set.

It is. They are good little serfs.

Speaking of germany specifically: They ban books and art. Tax Christians. And don’t get me started on the polizei.

Europe (governments) just agrivate me in general. I despise spending time there, even though I have to do it often.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

I don’t know about canadian police, but police in America have no responsibility to put themselves in harms way to protect you or your family.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

Also, a PD on the next street over can take well over an hour to respond. I don’t know any station that’s got a 10 minute response.

P.S. Do you think it takes 10 minutes to harm someone?

I live in lower Manhattan, 4 block from my local police station. If I dial 911 stating an emergency, I can get a fire engine within 5 minutes, but I will be lucky if a policeman/ car shows up within 8 hours. And, in my precinct, crimes such as burglary with a theft of less than $2,000 or automobile theft are rarely investigated. The best you can hope for is getting a copy of the police report for your insurance company.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

You really need to work on your typing and spelling skills because your post makes very little sense but I will try and answer intelligently.

In order to understand scripture you must understand the context and in which it is written and the time it was written along with the customs and mores at the time. This is Church teaching. The same holds true for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. As pointed out by my brothers, atom bombs are armaments and firearms are arms; firearms are what the second amendment are addressing. Nuclear weapons did not exist at the time the documents were established. Get over the atom bomb reference because it is making your comments ignorant of facts and the issue at hand.

I can purchase full automatic weapons if I so desire. They are controlled not prohibited.

As is pointed out the 2A is to guarantee a free state and to allow citizaens to defend themselves against an oppressive government, the likes of which existed at the time the documents writing.

Also, the military is not allowed to be used against the citizenry as was pointed out.

The Supreme Court of the US has ruled that the police are not required to protect the citizen populace, have no requirement to act, and cannot be held liable for not acting to protect and intervene. We are responsible for our own protection.

You have no more understanding of the Constitution and BOR as I have of any German equivalent. I could care less what you europeans do with your socialist tact and can care less. American blood was spilled in two world wars defeating Germany and you owe your freedom to us. It is a debt you take for granted and can never repay.

You are welcome. Enjoy your freedom. Only two individuals have ever died for you, Jesus Christ and the American fighting man. One for your sins, the other for your freedom. Get over it.

Eddie Mac

It seems you understood well. If you want, I will write in my own language! It seems that you want to make fun of foreigners writing english. Well, go ahead, for me it is no problem.

• interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with interpretation of the American Constitution.
• according to 2nd amendment automatic gun shoul not “even” be controled
• " Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." : IAm I seeing red? where is the tyrannical government.
• I talked about the armed forces TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY as foreseen in the 2nd amendment. So all other guns are useless, the armed forces are MORE THAN ENOUGH.
• The Supreme Court of the US did not disband the police as useless, the FBI and the CIA and why not the courts and The Supreme Court of the US, also useless. Each one for himself or herself, like in the jungle !!!
• It is funny that The Supreme Court of the US is nominted but the President according to His feelings (the President’s) about abortion, finances, liberal or conservative views and other pork-barrel principles. How free of prejudices is The Supreme Court of the US ?
• Are you sure I am German? Now, suppose I am German :
• You could care less the way the Europeans live but you care about how Vietnam, Afganistan and Iraq live. You were the culprits for 500 000 deaths in Iraq.
• “It is a debt you take for granted and can never repay.”. So, if I cannot repay, I will not repay. Funny, your logic.
• “two world wars defeating Germany and you owe your freedom to us.”. To you? So you despize the dead american soldiers in WW II to say that we owe to you? Unbelievable !! We owe to the unknown american and allied soldiers who died in the beaches of Normandy, in the battles of Mount Cassino or in the counter-attack of Ardenes. I owe much to them, I have seen the beaches of Normandy (did you) and I pray for them (do you?). I know by heart all the steps of the American bravery and I would defy you to a test of knowledge about the participation of the US in the WW II. So you steal their dignity so that I owe you their debt ? No shame !!!
• When you do not know, you invent. It is just shameful and utterly disgusting to put together Jesus Christ and the American soldier. Nauseating.
• No, I owe to american, canadian, fench, sikh, australian and new zealand, Russia and its allies and much more nationalities troops who fought in WW II
• But for you, shamefully, only exists the american soldier. What a shame!
• What does your rumbling has to do with the theme?
• I am not German. Bad Luck.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

That ultimately depends on your actions. If you’re trying to harm my family, then the church teaches that I have every right to defense, including a lethal blow… even by firearm if need be.

Coincidentaly, yesterday, I listen to a justification of a man (who was trying to rob a person) for a murder: “He moved! If he did not move, I would not shoot him”. I do not know who you are and before being a murderer (like the guy in Norway) no one is a murderer !!

SURPRISE! There DO happen to be priests who carry concealed pistols.

In America? Of course. If I was a bishop, I would order the whole arsenal: grenades, machine guns and so on.

Okay, Pfaffenhoffen, your attitude is getting very tiring. Those who support gun rights are not at all equivalent to alcoholics, drug dealers, or poligamists. You don’t have to bash our military, or call Americans stupid… especially when everyone has been reasonably polite in not pointing out the elephant in the room (namely, that gun control didn’t work so well for the Jews in your country)

Your lack of understanding is tiring… I am saying that IF you have a such-and-such behavior, you defend rationally that behavior. You cannot belong to the Rifle Association of Alaska and defend the gun prohibition!!!

Rights do not evolve over time. People have the right to bear arms for legitimate defense. Guns are a category of arms. It is not a right to bear guns, it is a right to bear arms (swords, knives, clubs, axes, bows, crossbows, spears, etc)

**swords, knives, clubs, axes, bows, crossbows, spears, **guns, machine-guns, tanks, submarines (the drug-dealers use them), drones, atomic boms, and what comes next…

Nuclear weapons are not arms (personal weapons), but rather ARMAMENT, meaning “great weapons of war”, and typically applying to military grade hardware (cannons, etc). As such, no one has a right to possess armament, as engaging in just war is the duty of the state, whilst self-defense requires possession of arms.

Again, highlighting that nuclear weapons are considered ARMAMENT and not ARMS.

Now you distinguish between arms, armament and “great weapons of war”. c’mmon! Gimme a break! It is your distinction! Where is that in the 2ns amendment?“As such, no one has a right to possess armament, as engaging in just war is the duty of the state, whilst self-defense requires possession of arms.” You are lost. The 2nd amendment refers to the defense of the state not to the defense of the individual. do I need to quote the 2nd amendment?

First, it is not merely about defense of the state, but preservation of the security of a FREE state. There is a reason that the amendment was ratified exactly as it was worded, even including the capitolization of specific words.

No quotation of the 2nd amendment. Your invention.

Second, we still do have militias (valid, state government controlled ones) which are primarily charged with defense of the nation and its various states. Furthermore. our military is restrained by posse comitatus from acting as a police force inside our national boundaries. And, as has already been pointed out to you, our police are neither explicitly for protection nor defense. If you don’t understand our system, please, refrain from commenting on it.

You still understand nothing about what I am saying. The 2nd amendment says that it needed arms to defend the State, Now you are confusing armed forces, police, militias, you are lost.

Furthermore, if I do not understand the system, why are you explaining it to me. Second, sorry I do not obey your orders. I will keep commenting whatever I want about the USA.

I am surprised that you forbid me to talk about the States and you wento into Iraq and made 500 000 deaths, Afganistan, Central America, Vietnam. Would you mind to explain how come you kill foreign children in Afganistan and Iraq and I cannot talk about your system?

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Eddie_Mac]

It seems you understood well. If you want, I will write in my own language! It seems that you want to make fun of foreigners writing english. Well, go ahead, for me it is no problem.

• interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with interpretation of the American Constitution.
• according to 2nd amendment automatic gun shoul not “even” be controled
• " Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." : IAm I seeing red? where is the tyrannical government.
• I talked about the armed forces TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY as foreseen in the 2nd amendment. So all other guns are useless, the armed forces are MORE THAN ENOUGH.
• The Supreme Court of the US did not disband the police as useless, the FBI and the CIA and why not the courts and The Supreme Court of the US, also useless. Each one for himself or herself, like in the jungle !!!
• It is funny that The Supreme Court of the US is nominted but the President according to His feelings (the President’s) about abortion, finances, liberal or conservative views and other pork-barrel principles. How free of prejudices is The Supreme Court of the US ?
• Are you sure I am German? Now, suppose I am German :
• You could care less the way the Europeans live but you care about how Vietnam, Afganistan and Iraq live. You were the culprits for 500 000 deaths in Iraq.
• “It is a debt you take for granted and can never repay.”. So, if I cannot repay, I will not repay. Funny, your logic.
• “two world wars defeating Germany and you owe your freedom to us.”. To you? So you despize the dead american soldiers in WW II to say that we owe to you? Unbelievable !! We owe to the unknown american and allied soldiers who died in the beaches of Normandy, in the battles of Mount Cassino or in the counter-attack of Ardenes. I owe much to them, I have seen the beaches of Normandy (did you) and I pray for them (do you?). I know by heart all the steps of the American bravery and I would defy you to a test of knowledge about the participation of the US in the WW II. So you steal their dignity so that I owe you their debt ? No shame !!!
• When you do not know, you invent. It is just shameful and utterly disgusting to put together Jesus Christ and the American soldier. Nauseating.
• No, I owe to american, canadian, fench, sikh, australian and new zealand, Russia and its allies and much more nationalities troops who fought in WW II
• But for you, shamefully, only exists the american soldier. What a shame!
• What does your rumbling has to do with the theme?
• I am not German. Bad Luck.

Amazing thread drift.

As I stated you have no understanding on the real meaning of the second amendment. Read the writings of our founding fathers. I used the example of interpretation of scripture as a foundation for you to use when understanding the Constitution. Works the same way. I cannot make it any clearer. The Constitution and BOR are not “living documents”. You must use context when reading and understanding.

As for the rest of your drivel, I am willing to bet that you are a Bush basher and an Obama worshipper. More glaringly you are an America hater bent on venting your anger here.

I will never convince you so I will ignore you. You do not desire a civil debate on the second amendment, you want to drag America through the mud, I doubt if you respect any military, and I find your attitude nauseating.

Eddie Mac

 

[Eddie_Mac]

a gun should be owned if it has a purpose, if you need to hunt, or if your more then 10min away from help from police to defend your family.

and as a criminologist, most crimes are not committed by a knife, it’s most commonly committed by the most accessible weapon available.

80% of all knife attack victims die from their wounds. Only 20% of gunshot victims die.

Knife attacks are up close and personal.

Studies have shown that a person 21 feet away armed with a knife can charge and mortally stab an individual before the attaced individual can unholster and fire in self defense. Law enforcement officers are trained in this scenario to maintain distance in such situations.

Often the ill informed chastise those who shoot criminals when they “bring a knife to a gunfight”. The statistics and reality of this makes it obvious that all knives must be banned. (sarcasm).

Eddie Mac

 

[Eddie_Mac]

The Founding Fathers

**We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ** —Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. —James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.

**Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. ** —Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

**Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ** —Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

The Virginia delegation’s recommended bill of rights included the following:

**That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. **

The second amendment guarantees the PEOPLE’s right to keep and bear arms.

Eddie Mac

 

[Calgar]

It seems you understood well. If you want, I will write in my own language! It seems that you want to make fun of foreigners writing english. Well, go ahead, for me it is no problem.

• interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with interpretation of the American Constitution.
• according to 2nd amendment automatic gun shoul not “even” be controled
• " Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." : IAm I seeing red? where is the tyrannical government.
• I talked about the armed forces TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY as foreseen in the 2nd amendment. So all other guns are useless, the armed forces are MORE THAN ENOUGH.
• The Supreme Court of the US did not disband the police as useless, the FBI and the CIA and why not the courts and The Supreme Court of the US, also useless. Each one for himself or herself, like in the jungle !!!
• It is funny that The Supreme Court of the US is nominted but the President according to His feelings (the President’s) about abortion, finances, liberal or conservative views and other pork-barrel principles. How free of prejudices is The Supreme Court of the US ?
• Are you sure I am German? Now, suppose I am German :
• You could care less the way the Europeans live but you care about how Vietnam, Afganistan and Iraq live. You were the culprits for 500 000 deaths in Iraq.
• “It is a debt you take for granted and can never repay.”. So, if I cannot repay, I will not repay. Funny, your logic.
• “two world wars defeating Germany and you owe your freedom to us.”. To you? So you despize the dead american soldiers in WW II to say that we owe to you? Unbelievable !! We owe to the unknown american and allied soldiers who died in the beaches of Normandy, in the battles of Mount Cassino or in the counter-attack of Ardenes. I owe much to them, I have seen the beaches of Normandy (did you) and I pray for them (do you?). I know by heart all the steps of the American bravery and I would defy you to a test of knowledge about the participation of the US in the WW II. So you steal their dignity so that I owe you their debt ? No shame !!!
• When you do not know, you invent. It is just shameful and utterly disgusting to put together Jesus Christ and the American soldier. Nauseating.
• No, I owe to american, canadian, fench, sikh, australian and new zealand, Russia and its allies and much more nationalities troops who fought in WW II
• But for you, shamefully, only exists the american soldier. What a shame!
• What does your rumbling has to do with the theme?
• I am not German. Bad Luck.

lol.

What interpretation of the Bible?

Why should automatic weapons be controlled?

Where is the Tyranical government? They’re right around the corner, after gun control.

Where does the 2nd amendment talk about the armed forced?

On and on you ramble. Look, you’re obviously set in your ways. Being a victim is what you like. And it makes you angry to see others who aren’t victims.

So your response is a strong desire to make them as weak as you are.

You’re losing your mind if you are so afraid of gun ownership that you think anyone with a weapon is a murderer.