What issues keep the SSPX irregular?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Onthisrock84
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
O

Onthisrock84

Guest
I was just curious. While they are not in complete schism from the Church and are allowed to validly hear confessions and witness marriages in the Church, it seems they are closer than ever to being in full communion with the Church again. They are of irregular status, which I don’t know exactly what that means but basically from what I’ve been told it means their sacraments are valid and are Catholic. They however are not in full communion like the FSSP or the ICKSP, however are not sedevacantalist like the SSPV and the CMRI.
What is it the SSPX refuses to concede, or even the Vatican possibly that causes them to remain irregular? It is saddening. The SSPX is by far the largest of all of the societies who offer the Extraordinary Form. It would be so nice if they were in full communion again.
 
I was just curious. While they are not in complete schism from the Church and are allowed to validly hear confessions and witness marriages in the Church, it seems they are closer than ever to being in full communion with the Church again. They are of irregular status, which I don’t know exactly what that means but basically from what I’ve been told it means their sacraments are valid and are Catholic. They however are not in full communion like the FSSP or the ICKSP, however are not sedevacantalist like the SSPV and the CMRI.
What is it the SSPX refuses to concede, or even the Vatican possibly that causes them to remain irregular? It is saddening. The SSPX is by far the largest of all of the societies who offer the Extraordinary Form. It would be so nice if they were in full communion again.
The issues to MY understanding are primarily two:

Failure to recognize the Vatican Ii ecumenical council

Failure to recognize the validity of the Papacy POST Vatican II
 
The issues to MY understanding are primarily two:

Failure to recognize the Vatican Ii ecumenical council

Failure to recognize the validity of the Papacy POST Vatican II
No, it’s just the Vatican II issue. They accept the validity of the Papacy.

It is the SSPV that does not accept the Pope’s past Vatican II, not the SSPX
 
There’d be a lot less confusion if they’d come up with better names for themselves. Seriously. SSPX SPPV SPF50, FSSP. . . .
 
Well, Al Capp had S.W.I.N.E. in his comic . . .

hawk

OK, for those under [mumble], that stood for Students Wildly Indignant About Nearly Everything, led by Joanie Phony . . .
 
The issue is obedience to the Catholic bishops. SSPX functions as a separate church, obedient only to their own bishops. A deal could be worked out, but grows increasingly unlikely as decades of separation go by.
 
Its really just Latin abbreviations more so made out by laity.
 
Unless I’m missing something, the current status quo is not sustainable. Within a few decades their bishops will have moved on from this world. What do they do at that point? Either they seek regularization or consecrate a new generation of bishops resulting in true schism.
 
I was just curious. While they are not in complete schism from the Church and are allowed to validly hear confessions and witness marriages in the Church
The SSPX are only allowed to witness marriages under very narrow circumstances. They are permitted to celebrate mass for a couple following the exchange of vows witnessed by a diocesan priest (or other priest recognized by the diocese).

If no diocesan priest were available, only then the bishop may allow an SSPX member to witness the marriage instead.
 
Last edited:
The issue is obedience to the Catholic bishops. SSPX functions as a separate church, obedient only to their own bishops. A deal could be worked out, but grows increasingly unlikely as decades of separation go by.
The new leader of the SSPX is Fr. Davide Pagliarani, who is not a bishop. I encourage prayers for him.

As time goes on there are fewer sspx priests who ever worked in a diocese, under a bishop ordinary, or alongside any religious order, and are less likely trained by any who were. The degree of separation increases each year; separate from the diocese, and different from the SSPX of Archbishop L.

In 1978 most SSPX priests likely had priest friends who were still “in”. How common is that now?
 
Last edited:
Bishop Fellay of the SSPX in his March 2012 letter to the whole society gave the main impediment: “the stumbling block being the question of the present-day Magisterium…”

The SSPX apparently reject the very authority of the Council and Magisterium afterward–they reject the Council as an act of the Church’s Magisterium and claim it ushered in some different, new “magisterium” that must be completely rejected. For example, this position was expressed by Bishop Tissier during his ordination sermon at Winona on June 15, 2012 where he lays out the SSPX’s reasons for this position and concludes the Council “has no authority of teaching” and “we do not accept that the council be a true Council.”

This idea is also contained in the joint statement of the SSPX bishops. In par. 4 of their June 26, 2013 joint declaration for the 25th anniversary of their episcopal ordinations, they declare Vatican II to create a new false Magisterium distinct from the authoritative Magisterium exercised by the Church until then.

An in depth explanation of this position was written by Fr. Gleize, who, from what I understand, teaches on this subject at their Econe seminary and was heavily involved with the doctrinal discussion with Rome during Benedict’s papacy. During his written back-and-forth with Msgr. Ocariz back in 2011, he argued that the Magisterium is only really the Magisterium when it maintains perfectly the constancy of truth (and he personally sees four errors), as opposed to the Magisterium’s authenticity and authority being dependent on the unity and continuity of the subject/Church and that continuity being the ultimate guarantor of truth. It’s why he and the SSPX creates dichotomies between “eternal Rome” and the Church of the city of Rome currently on earth, between the Magisterium of the past and the living Magisterium (ie the Magisterium exercised by those currently alive earth) as different things, not one continuous subject.

Fr. Gleize summarily dismisses the teaching of Vatican II as requiring no assent at all, not even religious submission, and of begging the question in claiming to require such assent. Therefore, those four alleged errors he sees makes the Magisterium of Vatican II and recent Popes not the same one Magisterium that Our Lord has established from the Apostolic era to the end of time. It is something to be rejected completely and outright.

The actual Catholic position accounts for potential errors in non-definitive judgments and provides the proper approach for them (ie not declaring the authority completely null).
 
Last edited:
That sounds awfully close to the sedevacantist position, without actually openly declaring it.
 
That sounds awfully close to the sedevacantist position, without actually openly declaring it.
Sedevacantism is not an all-or-nothing position, it’s a matter of degree. Individuals can vary a lot from each other, and can change their own positions over time, while all still belonging to SSPX. The organization has a position but you don’t meet the organization, you meet individuals. Interpretations can vary.
 
Last edited:
The SSPX is by far the largest of all of the societies who offer the Extraordinary Form.
I think this is the main issue. They don’t see the Latin Mass as “extraordinary”, but instead as quite ordinary and should be celebrated everywhere.
 
The part about wanting the EF to be celebrated everywhere isn’t an exclusively SSPX position. I’m sure the FSSP and ICKSP would like to see the same thing for the EF, but won’t ignore local bishops who don’t want it.
 
Last edited:
this is the main issue. They don’t see the Latin Mass as “extraordinary”, but instead as quite ordinary and should be celebrated everywhere.
(Prior poster)
Aside from the above, never underestimate the power of momentum on organizations. They tend to try to keep going, as independent, maintaining their distinct identity.
 
Last edited:
Probably better that negotiations fell apart, because refusing to accept the predominate and duly promulgated form of the mass would be tantamount to continued irregularity.
 
Aside from the above, never underestimate the power of momentum on organizations. They tend to try to keep going, as independent, maintaining their distinct identity.
You are correct there, for sure. We have 130 different independent municipal governments just here in Allegheny County.

And of course, since the early 1990’s, we’ve seen a lot of parish merged and closed here in Pittsburgh- oftentimes with popular disapproval- even in communities where the population was decimated by urban renewal, the steel collapse or urban decay.
 
Since a Personal Prelature was mentioned, consider the only existing one, Opus Dei. For years prior to this status, they worked in local dioceses, as a group and as individuals, alongside other Catholics. As much as possible they cooperated with bishops, some were more welcoming than others, never defied them.

Since becoming a Prelature, they still are still integrated into the regional Catholic apostolate where they are. Individuals continue to participate in diocesan pro life efforts, for instance, as they did before. They still respect local diocesan policies.

Sounds like they had a good preparation to become a good Personal Prelature.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top