What Jesus actually SAID

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ellzeena

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May be wrong forum, don’t know where else to put this. Left a question for apologists but my questions are never answered.

In the “Our Father” what Jesus REALLY was doing was reciting the Shema with His own editing because He was GOD and was speaking for GOD to God’s “people”. See this:
jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm

Fairly clear, isn’t it? And Jesus commandment appears to have been “Love the Lord with your whole heart and soul, and love one another as you love yourself.” This pretty much fits into the Shema but in a form modified BY ITS AUTHOR God Himself.

The Bible has been grossly mistranslated, we know this because there are scholars who can read Aramaic (even ancient Aramaic) and Greek and have proven these mistranslations. I don’t hear too much about this in the Roman Catholic church, why not? Jesus was, first and foremost, a JEW and a Rabbi (teacher), He even wore the tassels (as spoken of in the NT especially when the woman with a flow of blood touched his “tassel”). He knew (of course!) what the “commandments” actually said and, moreover, what they actually MEANT. He knew the outrageous legalism inflicted on the Jews by their leaders (who were unable to follow this themselves) and it angered Him!. I think He is jumping up and down out of total frustration because THIS church, the RC Church, is misrepresenting, has inflicted rules and regulations its own leadership do not follow, and is essentially “teaching” that we cannot possibly even earn a “plenary indulgence” because we cannot possibly be in the absolute “state of grace” for this. My question: WHO ASKED GOD, or WHO TOLD GOD the rules? What would JESUS say about this legalism?

I spent time in Protestant Christianity; I spent time seriously studying Judaism; I have seen through the lies of other faith systems. I am always led back to Roman Catholicism but I know, in my heart, SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE. SO, what say you? Do you slavishly follow whatever is told you because you are taught it is from God? And how do you KNOW it is from God? And…what if your relationship with God (which, in my case, is lifelong, quite deep, very complex and even a tad unbelievable) tells you that SOMETHING is WRONG? WHAT do you do? WHERE do you go? Most priests are thoroughly indoctrinated, those who are not may be in apostasy. WHAT TO DO? Any helpers out there (and please, pray before answering)?
 
This one looks real interesting. 👍

Can’t wait until Brother JR gets involved.

🍿🍿🍿🍿
 
ellzeena said:
I spent time in Protestant Christianity; I spent time seriously studying Judaism; I have seen through the lies of other faith systems. I am always led back to Roman Catholicism but I know, in my heart, SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.
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Just being curious…why and what is always leading you back to catholicism if your “heart” is telling you something is wrong there?
 
ellzeena said:
May be wrong forum, don’t know where else to put this. Left a question for apologists but my questions are never answered.

In the “Our Father” what Jesus REALLY was doing was reciting the Shema with His own editing because He was GOD and was speaking for GOD to God’s “people”. See this:
jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm

Fairly clear, isn’t it? And Jesus commandment appears to have been “Love the Lord with your whole heart and soul, and love one another as you love yourself.” This pretty much fits into the Shema but in a form modified BY ITS AUTHOR God Himself.

The Bible has been grossly mistranslated, we know this because there are scholars who can read Aramaic (even ancient Aramaic) and Greek and have proven these mistranslations. I don’t hear too much about this in the Roman Catholic church, why not? Jesus was, first and foremost, a JEW and a Rabbi (teacher), He even wore the tassels (as spoken of in the NT especially when the woman with a flow of blood touched his “tassel”). He knew (of course!) what the “commandments” actually said and, moreover, what they actually MEANT. He knew the outrageous legalism inflicted on the Jews by their leaders (who were unable to follow this themselves) and it angered Him!. I think He is jumping up and down out of total frustration because THIS church, the RC Church, is misrepresenting, has inflicted rules and regulations its own leadership do not follow, and is essentially “teaching” that we cannot possibly even earn a “plenary indulgence” because we cannot possibly be in the absolute “state of grace” for this. My question: WHO ASKED GOD, or WHO TOLD GOD the rules? What would JESUS say about this legalism?

I spent time in Protestant Christianity; I spent time seriously studying Judaism; I have seen through the lies of other faith systems. I am always led back to Roman Catholicism but I know, in my heart, SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE. SO, what say you? Do you slavishly follow whatever is told you because you are taught it is from God? And how do you KNOW it is from God? And…what if your relationship with God (which, in my case, is lifelong, quite deep, very complex and even a tad unbelievable) tells you that SOMETHING is WRONG? WHAT do you do? WHERE do you go? Most priests are thoroughly indoctrinated, those who are not may be in apostasy. WHAT TO DO? Any helpers out there (and please, pray before answering)?
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If I find myself asking these questions, I pray that the Lord help me to grow in humility.

It is just like everything else in life, we can look at the bad, or we can focus on the good and work to help those around us to get to heaven through Holy mother Church. Besides, “to whom would we go?”. Remember, Peter was the one entrusted with the keys. This is no small thing. The same Jesus you mention that got mad over legalism, handed on and entrusted a legacy to Simon Peter and promised the paraclete for divine guidance and in my opinion, the continual protection of doctrine throughout the ages all underscored by the cross and the resurrection. These are the beliefs that we pray to accept and internalize with utmost humility.

With them, we are truly joyful children of God. Without…as Pope Francis says, we are like satellites - watching from a distance.
 
Sure there are things wrong in the Church, but nothing is wrong with the Church.

Specificity is everyone’s friend. Please be specific. What specifically do you say is wrong?
 
ellzeena,

I think the things you cited rattle our faith when we are uncertain why we believe in the Catholic Church. So at these points, it is important to remind ourselves how we came, or would come to believe in the Catholic Church.

The FIRST reason why we become Christian is because of the historicity of the Death and Resurrection of Christ. We do NOT believe that this is true because it is written in the Bible. We do so because people who claimed to have witnessed the event, the Apostles of Christ, were willing to die for that claim. What more can we ask for, than for a witness to be willing to give their lives for what they saw? If it was just a self serving lie, then letting oneself be killed ultimately defeats the purpose anyway. So as far as accepting something without seeing it ourselves, the death and resurrection of Christ seems as certain as it can get.

What the death and resurrection shows, is that Christ is a valid authority to believe regarding the supernatural. If one were killed, then that person is no longer possible to affect himself through any natural means. So for Christ to rise again from the dead, we know that he must have acted supernaturally. In other words, he must have changed the supernatural order of things because we do not see others do the same and come back to life. Even when there are such claims in history, we do not have sufficient reason to think the testimony is true because none of the witnesses wanted to give their lives for that claim.

Now given that Christ is the authority regarding the supernatural, we would be reasonable to conclude that his teaching is worthy of belief as well. So the next question becomes, how do we access the teaching of Christ?

The most reasonable path seems to be, since Christ was a rabbi, to accept the teaching authority of his students, the Apostles. The Apostles can be considered as those certified by Jesus the rabbi. Now in the same way, we can assent to those certified by the Apostles themselves as having authority to teach. Those would be the Apostolic Successors. Then today, we accept the authority of the Apostolic Successors, if we want to learn what Christ taught. The Apostolic Successors are found today in the Catholic Church (and the Orthodox). But since the Orthodox are not in communion with Rome and reject the teaching and understanding regarding the Pope that has always been there in history, the Catholic Church becomes the true authority we must listen to.

Now you may say that this form of authority seems like a very odd concept. But it certainly is not. Think about the medical profession, especially Doctors. It is the Doctors themselves that certify other Doctors who they originally had as students and so forth. Furthermore, we do not verify what they say as true before we assent to their authority. We ONLY verify that they have been authorized by the Doctors before them to practice medicine.

Notice that nothing I claimed above required FAITH in the sense of believing something without reason. We have arrived at the Catholic Church using reasoning that we use in our daily lives.

So today, we believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, that Christ is the son of God, the Sacraments, the Dogmas and everything else regarding our faith because the Catholic Church says so. We believe these things by FAITH and not because they themselves make sense to us. We know that the Church is the authority regarding Christ’s teaching through REASON.

To conclude and tie this to your question, we know that the site you cited has got it wrong because we know that the experts disagree. The expert in this case is the Catholic Church.
 
You are so hung up on one thing Jesus actually SAID namely the Our Father, and yes, we all know that Jesus was a Jew. Jesus said many things of great import, in fact. For example, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. You are finding fault with little things, however you are a member of Christ’s church, instituted by Him, and promised guidance through the Holy Spirit and never to be destroyed until He comes again to judge the living and the dead. Try to step back from your own intellect and reason out the reason Jesus came into the world. He showed us how to live and then He started Holy Mother Church to guide us. He knows we are all weak and sinners, that we need a shepherd - the Vicar of Christ on earth.
 
ellzeena said:
May be wrong forum, don’t know where else to put this. Left a question for apologists but my questions are never answered.

In the “Our Father” what Jesus REALLY was doing was reciting the Shema with His own editing because He was GOD and was speaking for GOD to God’s “people”. See this:
jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm

-snip-
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I don’t understand what question is being asked. :confused:

As far as Jesus being Jewish, well that is hardly a revelation. If the greatest commandment is a restatement of the Shema, what difference does it make? Does it really change anything? The same with the Our Father. I don’t see how that changes the faith in any way. I’m not sure how that all ties in with the part in your post about plenary indulgences, and accusing priests of apostasy.
 
The Bible has been grossly mistranslated, we know this because there are scholars who can read Aramaic (even ancient Aramaic) and Greek and have proven these mistranslations.
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Who are these people? Links to bios or articles would be helpful.
I don’t hear too much about this in the Roman Catholic church, why not? Jesus was, first and foremost, a JEW and a Rabbi (teacher), He even wore the tassels (as spoken of in the NT especially when the woman with a flow of blood touched his “tassel”). He knew (of course!) what the “commandments” actually said and, moreover, what they actually MEANT. He knew the outrageous legalism inflicted on the Jews by their leaders (who were unable to follow this themselves) and it angered Him!. I think He is jumping up and down out of total frustration because THIS church, the RC Church, is misrepresenting, has inflicted rules and regulations its own leadership do not follow, and is essentially “teaching” that we cannot possibly even earn a “plenary indulgence” because we cannot possibly be in the absolute “state of grace” for this. My question: WHO ASKED GOD, or WHO TOLD GOD the rules? What would JESUS say about this legalism?
Click to expand...
Examples? I am clueless as to what you are talking about.
 
Francoist said:
Sure there are things wrong in the Church, but nothing is wrong with the Church.
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I’m sorry to say this, but you’re completely dissociated from reality if you think there is nothing wrong -with- the Church.

Examples of things wrong with the Church:

Women may not be priests.
Discrimination against people who are born gay.
Denying the rights of a woman to control her own womb.
Maintaing a lie to tens of thousands of third world country people about HIV.
The Inquisition (Which still exists.)
The Papacy’s disintegration.
Ridiculous amount of wealth, but only sends outside donations to charity, not its own $.

List goes on.
 
Gaerteuth said:
I’m sorry to say this, but you’re completely dissociated from reality if you think there is nothing wrong -with- the Church.

Examples of things wrong with the Church:

Women may not be priests.
Discrimination against people who are born gay.
Denying the rights of a woman to control her own womb.
Maintaing a lie to tens of thousands of third world country people about HIV.
The Inquisition (Which still exists.)
The Papacy’s disintegration.
Ridiculous amount of wealth, but only sends outside donations to charity, not its own $.

List goes on.
Click to expand...
You should conduct more research before you vomit up your bile.
 
Gaerteuth said:
I’m sorry to say this, but you’re completely dissociated from reality if you think there is nothing wrong -with- the Church.

Examples of things wrong with the Church:

Women may not be priests.
Discrimination against people who are born gay.
Denying the rights of a woman to control her own womb.
Maintaing a lie to tens of thousands of third world country people about HIV.
The Inquisition (Which still exists.)
The Papacy’s disintegration.
Ridiculous amount of wealth, but only sends outside donations to charity, not its own $.

List goes on.
Click to expand...
Quis ut Deus?
 
ellzeena said:
May be wrong forum, don’t know where else to put this. Left a question for apologists but my questions are never answered.

In the “Our Father” what Jesus REALLY was doing was reciting the Shema with His own editing because He was GOD and was speaking for GOD to God’s “people”. See this:
jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm

Fairly clear, isn’t it? And Jesus commandment appears to have been “Love the Lord with your whole heart and soul, and love one another as you love yourself.” This pretty much fits into the Shema but in a form modified BY ITS AUTHOR God Himself.

The Bible has been grossly mistranslated, we know this because there are scholars who can read Aramaic (even ancient Aramaic) and Greek and have proven these mistranslations. I don’t hear too much about this in the Roman Catholic church, why not? Jesus was, first and foremost, a JEW and a Rabbi (teacher), He even wore the tassels (as spoken of in the NT especially when the woman with a flow of blood touched his “tassel”). He knew (of course!) what the “commandments” actually said and, moreover, what they actually MEANT. He knew the outrageous legalism inflicted on the Jews by their leaders (who were unable to follow this themselves) and it angered Him!. I think He is jumping up and down out of total frustration because THIS church, the RC Church, is misrepresenting, has inflicted rules and regulations its own leadership do not follow, and is essentially “teaching” that we cannot possibly even earn a “plenary indulgence” because we cannot possibly be in the absolute “state of grace” for this. My question: WHO ASKED GOD, or WHO TOLD GOD the rules? What would JESUS say about this legalism?

I spent time in Protestant Christianity; I spent time seriously studying Judaism; I have seen through the lies of other faith systems. I am always led back to Roman Catholicism but I know, in my heart, SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE. SO, what say you? Do you slavishly follow whatever is told you because you are taught it is from God? And how do you KNOW it is from God? And…what if your relationship with God (which, in my case, is lifelong, quite deep, very complex and even a tad unbelievable) tells you that SOMETHING is WRONG? WHAT do you do? WHERE do you go? Most priests are thoroughly indoctrinated, those who are not may be in apostasy. WHAT TO DO? Any helpers out there (and please, pray before answering)?
Click to expand...
Relax. There is nothing wrong.

The Lord’s Prayer, what we call the 'Our Father" has nothing to do with the Shema Yisrael. The Shema is opening lines of Deuteronomy 6:4-9.

Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One. Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be in your heart. And you shall teach them diligently to your children, and you shall speak of them when you sit at home, and when you walk along the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. (Deuteronomy 6:4-9)

The words Shema Yisrael are the first words of Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel.

The Shema Yisrael is opening line of the Jewish morning and evening prayer, and every faithful Jew would have prayed it. Faithful Jews still pray the Shema Yisreal (in red above) as part of the morning and evening prayer to this day. As a faithful Jew, Jesus would have prayed these words twice daily. He would have been intimately familiar with them. Jesus’ Mother and Father would have taught him these words at an extremely early age. Jesus probably learned to say “Hear, O Israel” right after he learned to say mama and dada.

But the Our Father prayer has nothing to do with the Shema. Yisrael Jesus says that the Shema Yisrael is the greatest commandment of God in Mark 12, Luke 10 and Matthew 22. Mark even has Jesus quoting the Shema Yisrael directly.

*One of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, “Which is the first of all the commandments?” Jesus replied, "The first is this: 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ (Mark 12:28-30)

There was a scholar of the law who stood up to test him and said, “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read it?” He said in reply, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” He replied to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.” (Luke 10:25-28)*

The Shema has nothing to do with the Lord’s prayer, nor anything to do with slavishly following the rules of any Church. The Shema is Moses instruction to Israel that they are to put God first, remember God always, and to teach their children to love God above all things.

Many faithful and devout Catholics, including myself, have very deep personal relationships with God. We just believe that loving God includes being faithful to the authority which Jesus gave to Peter, the apostles and their successors.

-Tim-
 
Gaerteuth said:
I’m sorry to say this, but you’re completely dissociated from reality if you think there is nothing wrong -with- the Church.

Examples of things wrong with the Church:

Women may not be priests.
Discrimination against people who are born gay.
Denying the rights of a woman to control her own womb.
Maintaing a lie to tens of thousands of third world country people about HIV.
The Inquisition (Which still exists.)
The Papacy’s disintegration.
Ridiculous amount of wealth, but only sends outside donations to charity, not its own $.

List goes on.
Click to expand...
🍿
you got it all wrong!i doubt you are catholic
 
Francoist said:
Quis ut Deus?
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No one.

So we should follow just that- no one.
In my view, perfection and true divinity go hand in hand.

If I find one claiming to be the other but not both at the same time, then I can’t trust it.

You can leave a complaint in the complaint box, but I don’t check it! :cool:
 
Eufrosnia said:
ellzeena,

To conclude and tie this to your question, we know that the site you cited has got it wrong because we know that the experts disagree. The expert in this case is the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Very astute answer and thank you. One problem I have is about Doctors: every graduating class has someone at the bottom. We can’t just blindly trust them.

The site I cited is the Shema, a prayer essential to Judaism, a prayer that Jesus also prayed and incorporated into the “Our Father”. In its original language, everyone who heard His prayer understood it and recognized it and also understood how He was changing it to conform to His own Will regarding the relationship between His people and Himself, God. Yes of course He lived, He died, He rose, yes absolutely. I do not need to see Him to believe that, praise God. Remember that He also said (paraphrasing) …“a man could rise from the dead and there would be those who would not believe…” So true! He did, and look around us! The world is going into total Godlessness it appears to me, certainly here in the US and in France, it’s awful over there. I have not one smidgen of doubt who Jesus is ( IS being the operative word).

To the lady who asked why I come back to the RC Church: this is a complex answer. It is where God put me, I was baptized into it, I went through 12 years of Catholic education; I spent ten years in Protestantism (evangelical and Baptist) and there I learned more about the Bible (in study groups and from intense teachings) than I learned in 12 years in Catholic school. But even though the Spirit moves greatly in some of those churches, we cannot go by “feeling” or our own understanding, but by faith and grace. Something is “wrong”, something is “missing”, that something is the Eucharist, absolutely. So I studied Judaism, seriously studied it, to understand God as much as I can in my pathetic flesh here in this place, and prayed constantly to be led by God. And I found out who Jesus was, what He believed in, how He changed it. Next step: back to the RC church, where else is there to go? Best answer I can give.

Now to humility: I am extremely humble. In fact, sometimes I think my feeling of unworthiness offends God Who, after all, does find me “worthy” or He would not move in my life in the incredible manner He does and always has. So my questions are not from pride, they are from frustration.

I think the thing about the legalism with which the RC Church leads its people that bothers me the most is rules and regulations that are simply not possible to actually adhere to or conform to. I used plenary indulgence as a point in fact. I believe there used to be payment with such indulgences and of course that is no longer the case (the Church corrected herself, or rather the Holy Spirit did). Still, to be totally “free of all attachment to sin” in order to obtain a plenary indulgence…well, how does one do that unless one is in a coma when just about everything is a “sin”? I have attempted dozens of plenary indulgences in the past two years, with sincerity; I have been to sacred shrines all over Europe, I have lit candles in those shrines, I have served as Eucharistic Minister at Sacre Coer and at Lourdes, I have served as Cantor at Fatima. These pilgrimages had intention. It is absolutely impossible for me to believe that the God I know, Who touches my life and always has, would refuse to honor these efforts because of some minor thing such as not leaving a good tip or having a glass of wine! Or other such …

I’m tired of rules and regulations that my spirit tells me would offend Jesus. I can almost hear Him saying “What’s WRONG with you people? Didn’t you listen to Me?” Thus, this post, and then you all for participating.
 
@ellzeena

I understand exactly what you are saying. In many ways, although not precisely the same, I believe and see the same things. I am not going to try to convince you of anything. I’m just going to share my experience and thoughts.

My faith path is similar to yours except that I never really joined a non-Catholic church. I don’t know how old you are and I’m not going to ask–I’m a gentleman :cool:–but in the midst of my 12 consecutive years of Catholic education throw in Viet Nam, Vatican II and the social revolution of the 60’s. Now, how’s that for a formation milieu!

Scripture, as I believe all of us would admit, is the basis of Divine Revelation and the chronicle of salvation history. As such, we depend on “experts” to translate properly. Many translations are better than others. (I just learned that St. Augustine thought that St. Jerome’s translation of the Bible to Latin was a bad translation and never used it. There’s nothing new under the sun.) As far as mis-translations, I am familiar only with the ones that occurred in the 16th century with the Reformation.

I read both Latin and Greek. I do that because words are really important to me and when I read I want to see what the author wanted to precisely portray. The problem is that in translation from language to language there is a loss of “flavor” in the words. Compare the “Aeneid” in Latin and English, or maybe easier St. John of the Cross’ poetry in English and Spanish. When I have a question I use the Clementine Vulgate or the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. Let me give you an example of what I mean.

At the end of the Sermon on the Mount the Revised Standard Version has:
And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes. (Mt 7:28-29)
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There have been many analyses of the Sermon on the Mount, but what did Jesus do there? He re-interpreted the Torah! In addition to the Beatitudes and Our Father, he said, "You have heard it said…but I say to you… The key word is “I.” He was giving the Law. Moses merely told the people what God said. Jesus was “making law” and only God can do that. He was saying that He was God. OK. What does this have to do with translation and the quote?

In both the Greek and the Latin, the verb translates to “amazed,” but the subject of the sentence in each language which we see as “crowds” is a word whose “flavor” is “an angry mob.” The people weren’t just amazed they were angry that Jesus had made Himself equal to God. So, is what we read a mis-translation or just a lack of flavor? I don’t know.

Since I was a teenager I have rebelled against what I call the Pharisee-like approach in and to Catholicism. If that’s the limit, and I don’t mean that negatively, to someone’s faith, so be it. I know I’m not satisfied by it and, from your remarks, I gather neither are you. Vatican II recognized this, and one of its goals was to bring the Church out of it. I think it was largely a success and I commend all the documents to your reading.

Although the Church is commissioned by Jesus, it is a human institution, and, therefore, by definition, not perfect. The Borgia popes. Avignon. Military campaigns to increase the size of the Papal States. Sex and money scandals. But, in my mind, that’s not the Church. The Church is those who sit in the pews with me. Yes, even the crying babies, the women who bathe in perfume and the guys wearing jeans with their hands in their pockets. But I digress.

I was amazed to learn that in the 1960’s there was a list of “official sins” that seminarians studied. Give me a break! This concept of sin and the Pharisees I define as “the observance of form” and not, I repeat not, the practice of faith. What is the key to the Two Greatest Commandments? Love. Simple–love. Two statements the first of which encompassed 1-3 of the Decalogue and the second 4-10. Is the only sin then an act or thought in which someone turns away from love? God is love. Therefore, turning away from love is turning away from God.

If you do a word search on the Gospels of the phrase “I command you,” you will find it three times in the Revised Standard Version. Once is in Mark when Jesus casts out an evil spirit. The other two times are in John 15, and the first use leads to the conclusion:
This I command you, to love one another. (Jn 15:17)
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This is the only thing that Jesus in the form of a “rule” commanded His disciples, us, to do. Simple? Not at all. But I do know this, that if I try to know Jesus I will learn love and act lovingly towards others. I also know that to grow in this and give me strength, since love means subordinating my human arrogance and pride, I need the Eucharist. When I fail, and I think this may be a sore spot with you–the failure that is–I go to Confession. I don’t need someone to tell me what is or is not a sin. I know because I believe.

This is not true for many people. There are those who like to be told what to do and what is right or wrong. That’s fine if that’s what they want. My experience is that the Ten Commandments and much of what the Bureaucracy of the Catholic Church teaches falls out from knowing Jesus = The Father = Love.

People have thrown your intellect at you. I say dive into it. But also believe. I need satisfaction for my intellect. Studying Scripture, theology and philosophy do that.

I am sorry. I have rambled enough. I just wanted to support you.

Please don’t ever forget the no matter how angry you get, how disillusioned you become, how impossible this all might seem, Jesus loves you more than you will ever know and has done so from all eternity.

Grace, peace and love
 
ellzeena said:
Now to humility: I am extremely humble.

…

I think the thing about the legalism with which the RC Church leads its people that bothers me the most is rules and regulations that are simply not possible to actually adhere to or conform to.

…

I’m tired of rules and regulations
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Hmm. Perhaps you are extremely humble. However, to me it sounds strange for someone to say “I am extremely humble” because people who are humble don’t usually say so… that’s part of what it means to be humble. I intend no insult but to speak frankly you don’t sound humble at all to me.

As to rules and regulations… what ones are so hard? I’m no saint but I don’t find most of the rules that difficult. I don’t want to rape or steal, I don’t want to worship false gods, I don’t want to defraud laborers or have sex with a man, I don’t want to cheat on my wife or take things away from other people. I don’t even have a particular desire to kill anyone.

Have you ever fasted during Lent? The first and the last weeks are the hardest for me, but even then it isn’t that hard, and it’s not even a requirement anymore. There are only 2 days of fasting in the Church in the USA. Eating meat on Fridays? I am not especially fond of fish but I can scarcely say that it is a hardship. I think most American bishops let you substitute a different penance anyway, though I suppose that you would have to check with your chancery to find out what it is.

So what, specifically, is so hard?

All this talk of “rules and regulations” and “legalism” makes me think that you’re tired of being told what to do. That is just Original Sin talking. I don’t think anyone particularly likes being told what to do… it’s just part of life. Doing the dishes is another such thing: I haven’t met anybody who really likes it, but everyone must come to terms with it because it has to be done.
 
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