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ADiosgracias
Guest
Why the Virgin Mary married Joseph if is not her intension to have intimacy with him
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Will_B
Guest
First, this is the type of question that might be asked by a 21st century feminist.
It was true in 4 BC and is still true today, although many of those born after 1965 may think differently.
It was true in 4 BC and is still true today, although many of those born after 1965 may think differently.
*]Children need both a mother and a father (male and female)
*]In 4 BC unwed mothers we frowned upon, and maybe even stoned if adultery was suspected.
*]The safest way for Jesus to be raised in Nazareth was to have a mother and a father, and for them to be married. (Joseph was the foster father of Jesus, not his biological father) … Remember Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, and born of the Virgin Mary.
1, 2, and 3 take care of the practical side of your question.
The moral and theological side have many, many more answers. And, I’m not a theologian.
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ADiosgracias
Guest
Your reasons are correct and I agree with them but wasn’t she engage before the Annunciation?
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Edward_H
Guest
Maybe the Seat of Wisdom, knew that St Joseph, being a “righteous man” would take care of her and protect her. And then when she became pregnant she realized that Jesus would need a father and that St Joseph would be the model of human fatherhood.
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jediliz
Guest
Jesus needed a legal/human father. Mary would have been stoned otherwise.
Since she was more than likely a temple consecrated virgin, she wasn’t intended to be intimate with her spouse, but he was to protect her purity.
Also, for all we know, he could have been in his 50s or 60s. We don’t know how old he was.
Since she was more than likely a temple consecrated virgin, she wasn’t intended to be intimate with her spouse, but he was to protect her purity.
Also, for all we know, he could have been in his 50s or 60s. We don’t know how old he was.
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daisybee
Guest
Tradition indicates that Mary was a consecrated virgin from an early age. For more information, see: catholic.com/tracts/mary-ever-virgin
Also, in Scripture, we see God directing Joseph to Mary through the angel Gabriel. (It’s more about God providing what was necessary for His Son’s incarnation on earth rather than Mary randomly choosing a husband.) Mary (and Jesus!) were in need of a protector. See below:
From “The Case for Mary’s Perpetual Virginity”: catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-case-for-mary%E2%80%99s-perpetual-virginity
Why did St. Joseph then “take [Mary] his wife” according to Matthew 1:24 if she belonged to the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit is Mary’s spouse, but Joseph was her spouse and protector on this earth for at least two obvious reasons. First, as Matthew points out in his genealogy in chapter 1, Joseph was in line to be a successor of David as King of Israel. Thus, if Jesus was to be the true “son of David” and king of Israel (see 2 Sm 7:14, Heb 1:5, Rv 19:16, 22:16), he needed to be the son of Joseph. As the only son of Joseph, even though adopted, he would have been in line for the throne.
Also, in a culture that did not take too kindly to espoused women getting pregnant by someone other than their spouse, Mary would have been in mortal danger. So Joseph became Mary’s earthly spouse and protector as well as the protector of the child Jesus.
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JRKH
Guest
Good answers already but let’s take this very basically…
When Joseph and Mary contracted to marry, is there any reason to think that it was NOT her intent to have marital relations?
We know from the Gospels that Mary was already “betrothed” to Joseph before the angelic visit and she conceived by the Holy Spirit.
It’s reasonable to assume that, at the time of the betrothal she intended to be a normal wife to her husband.
However, God changed those plans through angelic visits, first to Mary and then to Joseph.
After this, any thought of a “normal” marriage and family life was permanently altered for both of them…
Peace
James
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TimothyH
Guest
This is impossible James.
God reserved Mary for himself from the beginning of creation throuout all eternity.
*He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24) *
The tree of life is the Cross but it is also Mary. The fruit of the tree of life is the fruit of Mary’s womb, Jesus, who gives us eternal life when we eat of him. God guarded this tree with a cherubim and flaming sword. No one was to touch Mary.
***Uzzah stretched out his hand to the ark of God *and steadied it, for the oxen were tipping it. Then the LORD became angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there in God’s presence. (2 Samuel 6:6-7)
The ark of the covenant forshadows Mary. Uzzah tried to touch it and he died on the spot. Anyone who had an intent to touch Mary would have been struck dead. God intended Mary for himself, for all time. God does not steal a woman from another man to whom she is betrothed, and would never have allowed another man to go near Mary with the intent of sexual relations. Mary was specially prepared by God to be overshadowed by the Holy Spirit. No other was to come over her.
The Holy Family was the perfect family because they shared perfectly in the life of the Trinity. The interaction between Josheph, Mary and Jesus, hidden in the life of that family, was as close to the innermost workings of the Trinity we have ever seen on earth. Joseph made an oblation of himself to Mary and Jesus just as Christ sacrificed himself on the cross for his bride, the Church.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, (Ephesians 5:25)
That’s exactly what Jospeh did, made an oblation of his life for Mary and Jesus, just as Jesus made an offering of his life for us on the Cross. Many still do it today through celibacy for the sake of the kingdom. There is no way anyone would have been permitted touch Mary sexually. Anyone who came near Mary with the intent to touch her sexually would have died. Our God is a jelous God, and he reserved Mary for himself from the beginning of time.
-Tim-
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JRKH
Guest
Tim,
You make some interesting observations above…But you have not proven my statements to be impossible.
Quoting some verses from the OT proves nothing about what Mary’s intention was at the time she accepted Joseph’s proposal of marriage.
Scripture is pretty clear that neither Mary or Joseph were aware of these OT verses applying to them. So we can only assume that, based on what they knew at the time, their intent was to have a normal marriage.
Remember - the question here is not about what God had planned…But about what Mary and Joseph knew - and when they knew it - and how that effected their intentions at a given point in time…
Peace
James
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ADiosgracias
Guest
Now I’m confused !!
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JRKH
Guest
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IesumPerMariam
Guest
I think you are both correct, just raising different points. Of course Our Lord intended Mary to be His ever-virgin Mother from the beginning (hence her preservation from Original Sin). However, Mary did not necessarily know this as a young woman. The mystery of the Finding in the Temple suggests that Our Lady may not have understood everything that was happening yet. “And [Jesus] said to them, ‘How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be about my Father’s business?’ And [Joseph and Mary] did not understand the word that he spoke to them” (Luke 2:49-50).
Mary was not omniscient, but was always perfectly obedient to the will of God. Nor does her lack of omniscience contradict her title Seat of Wisdom. Initium sapientiae timor Domini, and Our Lady certainly demonstrated – more perfectly than any other created being – a holy fear of the Lord.
However, whether or not Mary and Joseph initially planned to have a “normal” marriage is entirely open to speculation, and nothing more (at least not during this life).
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adrift
Guest
There was her statement “I know not man”.
- She was already the wife of Joseph they were in the part of marriage where the woman did not live with the husband.
- The statement is generalized that is she says “man” rather then being specific to say Joseph.
This is a strange statement unless there was a vow of virginity. In other words, she was asking the angel if God was releasing her form her vow of virginity. The Angel essentially answers her no that she would remain a virgin.
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JRKH
Guest
I don’t know that Scripture supports this view.
The two Scriptural passages that tell us the “history” of the events are these…
Mt 1:
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother** Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child** of the Holy Spirit; 19 and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. 20 But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; 21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel” (which means, God with us). 24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.
Betrothed but not living together…Today we might say engaged??
Luke 1:
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph,
Which confirms that Mary was betrothed to Joseph already when the Angel came to her.
So - getting back to the specific question raised in the OP
…“Why the Virgin Mary married Joseph if is not her intention to have intimacy with him”…
I simply asked - what is a reasonable assumption - from Scripture - about Mary’s intent when she became betrothed to Joseph.
Scripture does not tell us that she was a “consecrated virgin” or that she had made any particular vow in this regard.
No one has yet provided me with evidence, in the form of actual teaching, that Mary and Joseph intended, at the time of betrothal{/u], that is - before the Gospel narrative picks up - that the marriage would be celibate.
We know of course that after the Angel delivered his messages to Mary and then to Joseph, they both were obedient to God.
Peace
James
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adrift
Guest
Today we do not conduct marriage like they did then. No it was not what we call engagement.
Marriage was in two parts. From the NAB footnotes
Note that in Matthew Chapter one it says that Joseph is Mary’s husband
followed by
Even if this was an engagement as we know it, the question Mary asked was strange. You ignored that question.
The normal reaction of a married woman to being told she would be a mother would be to be joyful that her and her husband would have a child not to ask how?
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daisybee
Guest
Hi,
I heard a Scripture scholar offer an explanation about the question “How shall this be?,” and it has to do with Mary’s perpetual virginity.
She is not asking “how” with a lack of faith as Zechariah did, as in, “How do I know this will happen?”
She is rather, accepting what God wants, but is asking in what way it will happen, because she understood herself to be a consecrated virgin.
I wish I remember the more accurate, almost literal translation of her question. In the original language, it is a little different than just, “How shall this be?”
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JRKH
Guest
Thank you for the clarification…I did not know exactly how things proceeded at that time and place
I really don’t think that I ignored the question. Mary’s question to the Angel was not strange at all. Look carefully at the NAB note you kindly posted, which says:
7 [18] Betrothed to Joseph: betrothal was the first part of the marriage, constituting a man and woman as husband and wife. Subsequent infidelity was considered adultery. The betrothal was followed some months later by the husband’s taking his wife into his home, at which time normal married life began. (emphasis mine)
It is clear from Scripture that Joseph and Mary were still in the “First part” of the marriage and that Joseph had not taken her into his home. Mt 1:18 is crystal clear on this point.
This fact ALSO makes clear that ,at the time that Mary became betrothed to Joseph, she did NOT know she was to be the mother of the savior.
So - my question to the OP remains…Is there reason to believe that it was NOT her intention to have relations with Joseph at the time they became betrothed.
I see none in Scripture…
Peace
James
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daisybee
Guest
Yes, as I just described above–she asks “How shall this be?,” meaning “In what way will this happen?” if we take into consideration the Tradition (based on the historical Protoevangelium document in the article that I also linked to in an earlier post) that she was a consecrated virgin from an early age.
As Catholics, we give consideration to Tradition as well as Scripture.
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adrift
Guest
Perhaps you don’t understand what I am saying. If things were as you say, that she expected a normal marriage than her question is strange. The second part of marriage came when the husband took the wife into his home.
So
- Mary should have assumed that Joseph would be coming soon.
- She doesn’t just say that she does not know Joseph but man indicating a universal abstinence.
I don’t believe by pointing out that they were in the first part of the marriage that it answers why she asked such a strange question. The question shows her intentions. The fact she doesn’t mention Joseph in her answer but the general “man” shows her intention. Unless you believe she didn’t know where babies came from
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JRKH
Guest
I think it is probably a situation of each of us not understanding the other…Perhaps you don’t understand what I am saying. If things were as you say, that she expected a normal marriage than her question is strange. The second part of marriage came when the husband took the wife into his home.
So
- Mary should have assumed that Joseph would be coming soon.
- She doesn’t just say that she does not know Joseph but man indicating a universal abstinence.
I don’t believe by pointing out that they were in the first part of the marriage that it answers why she asked such a strange question. The question shows her intentions. The fact she doesn’t mention Joseph in her answer but the general “man” shows her intention. Unless you believe she didn’t know where babies came from
The OP question really does not have a specific answer…and really does not effect either our salvation or our daily walk…So I will gladly withdraw from further debate on the matter…
Peace
James
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