What kind of Messiah are Modern Jews looking for?

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CHRISTINE77

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I am under the impression that Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, since they do not accept Jesus as Messiah.

What type of Messiah are they looking for - a strong military leader or a religious leader or ???

I’ve never heard an answer to this, how will Jews know when their Messiah comes?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I am under the impression that Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, since they do not accept Jesus as Messiah.

What type of Messiah are they looking for - a strong military leader or a religious leader or ???

I’ve never heard an answer to this, how will Jews know when their Messiah comes?
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Check out on the internet, type in the word “Lubavitch”, which is a sect of Orthodox Jews. You will probably find your answer there. There are different sects of Judaism who, I think, do not all think alike when it comes to the Messiah. One thing we do know though, is that most of them definitely don’t think it was Jesus.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I am under the impression that Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, since they do not accept Jesus as Messiah.

What type of Messiah are they looking for - a strong military leader or a religious leader or ???

I’ve never heard an answer to this, how will Jews know when their Messiah comes?
Click to expand...
Most modern Jews–at least those who are awaiting the Messiah, for not all are–expect the Messiah to fulfill the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible and usher in the Messianic Age, which will be preceded by an era of great turmoil and tribulation on several levels. The prophecies include peace on Earth among all the nations; the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land as well as the rebuilding of the Temple; and the recognition by all of the truth of Judaism, but without any forced conversion. The Torah Law, however, must still be practiced even when the Messiah arrives. The Messiah himself must achieve all these things within his own lifetime since there is to be no Second Coming; and if he does not, he will not be accepted as the Messiah. He must also be descended from King David according to patrilineal descent and be fully human, not divine. He is expected to be more a military leader than a spiritual prophet, but may combine the features of both. Some Jewish interpretations even posit the existence of two Messiahs; regardless, the above requirements must be met.
 
meltzerboy said:
Most modern Jews–at least those who are awaiting the Messiah, for not all are–expect the Messiah to fulfill the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible and usher in the Messianic Age, which will be preceded by an era of great turmoil and tribulation on several levels. The prophecies include peace on Earth among all the nations; the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land as well as the rebuilding of the Temple; and the recognition by all of the truth of Judaism, but without any forced conversion. The Torah Law, however, must still be practiced even when the Messiah arrives. The Messiah himself must achieve all these things within his own lifetime since there is to be no Second Coming; and if he does not, he will not be accepted as the Messiah. He must also be descended from King David according to patrilineal descent and be fully human, not divine. He is expected to be more a military leader than a spiritual prophet, but may combine the features of both. Some Jewish interpretations even posit the existence of two Messiahs; regardless, the above requirements must be met.
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I’ve always been curious about one thing. Respectfully, it seems impossible to imagine that someone from this day an age can prove their connection to King David. Do you know if there are Jewish families out there who have proven their lineage? I had been told that after the Temple was destroyed it became impossible to prove a persons descent from King David, but I am not sure that is accurate. Thanks
 
then why do some Jews support abortion? What happens if the Jewish messiah had already been conceived…but was aborted due to some Jews interpretation about abortion? (or because Jewish Law requires abortion in some cases? that confuses me. I know it has to do with what Jews believe about when the Soul enters the body). I say some because I know at the March for Life, there’s always at least ONE Rabbi that speaks for the life of the unborn.

So, what if the Messiah was already aborted?

And the King David thing…are you going to check DNA? How do you determine if your promised messiah is a descendant of David…that would be a lot of DNA to study. Do you have a sample of David’s DNA?

Please don’t take these questions the wrong way, just trying to understand.
 
Best diocese in Nebraska (Lincoln) :D:D My home town.
Just saying hello…

Now back to our regularly scheduled program…
 
Jews were expecting a military leader back when Jesus came on the scene. Jesus was from the King David lineage.
 
Hm,

If I wake up tomorrow in Israel, world peace has broken out and the Christian, Islamic, Hindu etc press all has headlines to the effect of “Looks like the Jews had it right all along!” then I don’t think it will be a question of worrying about testing Messiah’s DNA.
 
Kaninchen said:
Hm,

If I wake up tomorrow in Israel, world peace has broken out and the Christian, Islamic, Hindu etc press all has headlines to the effect of “Looks like the Jews had it right all along!” then I don’t think it will be a question of worrying about testing Messiah’s DNA.
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While I completely agree with you about DNA testing, I always thought that being descended from David’s line was absolutely necessary for the Messiah. Is it not? If so, do any modern day Jews have genealogical records back to David. If not, it seems impossible for the prophecy to be fulfilled. Of course, I recognize that with God all things are possible, but I am interested in how the Jews feel this prophecy can be fully fulfilled at this point in time.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
While I completely agree with you about DNA testing, I always thought that being descended from David’s line was absolutely necessary for the Messiah. Is it not? If so, do any modern day Jews have genealogical records back to David. If not, it seems impossible for the prophecy to be fulfilled. Of course, I recognize that with God all things are possible, but I am interested in how the Jews feel this prophecy can be fully fulfilled at this point in time.
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The ‘establishment’ of being a member of David’s line is really a Christian problem rather than a Jewish problem.

My reply was a shorthand (a little tongue-in-cheek) of some of the real world consequences of Messiah turning up. Should those real-world-changing things happen, then the ‘member of David’s line’ can be taken as read.
 
Kaninchen said:
The ‘establishment’ of being a member of David’s line is really a Christian problem rather than a Jewish problem.

My reply was a shorthand (a little tongue-in-cheek) of some of the real world consequences of Messiah turning up. Should those real-world-changing things happen, then the ‘member of David’s line’ can be taken as read.
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I’m sorry, I don’t see how the establishment of the Messiah is a Christian problem. The Messiah is prophesied in the Scriptures that are in Jewish Bible. Can you please clarify your point? Are you saying that the Jewish people are simply looking for the fulfillment of worldly peace as the sign of the Messiah? ( and not worried about the other prophecies? )
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
I’m sorry, I don’t see how the establishment of the Messiah is a Christian problem. The Messiah is prophesied in the Scriptures that are in Jewish Bible. Can you please clarify your point? Are you saying that the Jewish people are simply looking for the fulfillment of worldly peace as the sign of the Messiah? ( and not worried about the other prophecies? )
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I think the lineage issue involving the Messiah’s being a descendant of King David through King Solomon (not through the Prophet Nathan), according to patrilineal descent, will be taken for granted if the real prophecies regarding the ACTIONS of the Messiah are fulfilled. These actions include not only world peace, but also a return of the Jewish tribes to Israel, rebuilding of the Temple, and a worldwide recognition of the truth of the Jewish faith. Judaism is generally based on BEHAVIOR rather than dogma, and although the Messiah is required to be descended from David, it is mainly the deeds of the Messiah accomplished during his lifetime that count the most. Where the Messiah is born, who his parents are, and similar questions are of secondary import compared to the fulfillment of the Messiah’s mission.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
I’m sorry, I don’t see how the establishment of the Messiah is a Christian problem. The Messiah is prophesied in the Scriptures that are in Jewish Bible. Can you please clarify your point? Are you saying that the Jewish people are simply looking for the fulfillment of worldly peace as the sign of the Messiah? ( and not worried about the other prophecies? )
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The reason I said it’s a Christian problem rather than a Jewish problem is tied up with the need to establish ‘Jesus as Messiah’ when the achievements that Jews see as essential were not met (I believe that they’re supposed to be met in the ‘Second Coming’, are they not?).

The Christian process is to find all sorts of links, or supposed links, to text, while, as melzerboy has pointed out, Jews are looking for the arrival of dramatic, real-world-changing events. Messiah won’t applying for the post of Messiah and won’t need a CV and set of interviews - Messiah will do things and then we’ll know.
 
Thanks to Kaninchen and Meltzerboy for explaining all that. It was a great question and I appreciate the answer. 🙂
 
meltzerboy said:
Most modern Jews–at least those who are awaiting the Messiah, for not all are–expect the Messiah to fulfill the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible and usher in the Messianic Age, which will be preceded by an era of great turmoil and tribulation on several levels. The prophecies include peace on Earth among all the nations; the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land as well as the rebuilding of the Temple; and the recognition by all of the truth of Judaism, but without any forced conversion. The Torah Law, however, must still be practiced even when the Messiah arrives. The Messiah himself must achieve all these things within his own lifetime since there is to be no Second Coming; and if he does not, he will not be accepted as the Messiah. He must also be descended from King David according to patrilineal descent and be fully human, not divine. He is expected to be more a military leader than a spiritual prophet, but may combine the features of both. Some Jewish interpretations even posit the existence of two Messiahs; regardless, the above requirements must be met.
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can you quote for us what the torah said about him
 
Originally Posted by meltzerboy View Post
Most modern Jews–at least those who are awaiting the Messiah, for not all are–expect the Messiah to fulfill the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible and usher in the Messianic Age, which will be preceded by an era of great turmoil and tribulation on several levels. The prophecies include peace on Earth among all the nations; the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land as well as the rebuilding of the Temple; and the recognition by all of the truth of Judaism, but without any forced conversion. The Torah Law, however, must still be practiced even when the Messiah arrives. The Messiah himself must achieve all these things within his own lifetime since there is to be no Second Coming; and if he does not, he will not be accepted as the Messiah. He must also be descended from King David according to patrilineal descent and be fully human, not divine. He is expected to be more a military leader than a spiritual prophet, but may combine the features of both. Some Jewish interpretations even posit the existence of two Messiahs; regardless, the above requirements must be met.
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elwill said:
can you quote for us what the torah said about him
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Elwill, the main quotes for some of the Messiah requirements were seen in the prophet Samuel. If I’m not mistaken, Samuel (a prophet and Judge) set up the legal system and also reunited the tribes, other requirements were seen in David - a great warrior, Solomon for his wisdom, as all of these are attributes that the Messiah will have. However, what’s an interesting fact is that both David and Solomon were Kings (Messiah’s) but scriptural tells us in 2 Samuel 7:14, “I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men.” -

This is going to be very interesting to try to understand that the Messiah will be just human…considering that a prophet can be individuals who were assigned a special mission by God to guide humanity which compared with the Messiah is designated to open the Messianic era and will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance.

I’ve read up on the two Messiah theory which I know some don’t agree with - also I always thought that the two Messiah was pointed out from a scriptural point in the N.T, "“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but he didn’t go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” - Some scriptural passage almost make you think that way…

Habakkuk 2: 1"I will stand at my watch and station myself on the ramparts; I will look to see what he will say to me, and what answer I am to give to this complaint.The LORD’s Answer 2 Then the LORD replied: “Write down the revelation and make it plain on tablets so that a herald may run with it.3 For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false.Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay."
 
Kaninchen said:
The reason I said it’s a Christian problem rather than a Jewish problem is tied up with the need to establish ‘Jesus as Messiah’ when the achievements that Jews see as essential were not met (I believe that they’re supposed to be met in the ‘Second Coming’, are they not?).

The Christian process is to find all sorts of links, or supposed links, to text, while, as melzerboy has pointed out, Jews are looking for the arrival of dramatic, real-world-changing events. Messiah won’t applying for the post of Messiah and won’t need a CV and set of interviews - Messiah will do things and then we’ll know.
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Sorry, I was on vacation so I didn’t have a chance to respond, but thank you for this response. I see what you are saying now. From past conversations, I have come to know what you are saying that the Jewish people do not “see the achievements” of Jesus Christ as Messiah. For Christians, we do see the achievements, but they are spiritual not temporal (i.e., Jesus brought peace not of this world but peace with God). I don’t want to turn this thread into a thread about Jesus as Messiah, but that is just in response to what you said. Thanks for clarifying!
 
MorningSong51 said:
Elwill, the main quotes for some of the Messiah requirements were seen in the prophet Samuel. If I’m not mistaken, Samuel (a prophet and Judge) set up the legal system and also reunited the tribes, other requirements were seen in David - a great warrior, Solomon for his wisdom, as all of these are attributes that the Messiah will have. However, what’s an interesting fact is that both David and Solomon were Kings (Messiah’s) but scriptural tells us in 2 Samuel 7:14, “I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men.” -

This is going to be very interesting to try to understand that the Messiah will be just human…considering that a prophet can be individuals who were assigned a special mission by God to guide humanity which compared with the Messiah is designated to open the Messianic era and will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance.

I’ve read up on the two Messiah theory which I know some don’t agree with - also I always thought that the two Messiah was pointed out from a scriptural point in the N.T, "“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but he didn’t go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” - Some scriptural passage almost make you think that way…

Habakkuk 2: 1"I will stand at my watch and station myself on the ramparts; I will look to see what he will say to me, and what answer I am to give to this complaint.The LORD’s Answer 2 Then the LORD replied: “Write down the revelation and make it plain on tablets so that a herald may run with it.3 For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false.Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay."
Click to expand...
thank you
i was wondering either what is so specific about the massaih which didn’t come yet

is there significant one ! , or is it mean any prophet will come from jews themselfs ?

what if jesus claimed to be human as muslims believes , so what is the problem with him to be the massih ?

i want the answer from jews prespective and suported with prophecyes in the holy books of jews 🙂
 
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