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teresa_lamb
Guest
This is true for me…However, I enjoy The Latin Mass on occasion, and I am politically conservative…
What kinda Catholic do you call one that's neither liberal, nor Traditionalist?
- Status
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gtrenewed
Guest
As we have seen by the replies here, there is disagreement on the meanings of titles. You may call yourself by this or that and have an idea on what that means but it may not mean that to another person; so, you may be misrepresented to a third person when you are not there. What good does this serve?
It is easy to identify the far left or far right of any organization but most of us live somewhere near the middle. We may be left on certain issues and right on others. If it is true that we are on a journey and grow in our understanding at different times along that path yet are saved at each point by the promise of the Word of God as preserved and transmitted by the leadership; how do labels serve to unite us in our mission?
Scripture tells us that St. Paul taught that there are many different functions in the Body and not all are of the same function. With each function there is a viewpoint, an understanding of what that means. As long as we avoid heresy, we should celebrate the uniqueness of each of our callings and viewpoint.
If there is not charity amongst us but name-calling, how will the world see Christ? If there is not respectful debate leading to understanding the other; then we just have strife and contention where evil lives.
To the OP I would say you are asking the wrong question.
It is easy to identify the far left or far right of any organization but most of us live somewhere near the middle. We may be left on certain issues and right on others. If it is true that we are on a journey and grow in our understanding at different times along that path yet are saved at each point by the promise of the Word of God as preserved and transmitted by the leadership; how do labels serve to unite us in our mission?
Scripture tells us that St. Paul taught that there are many different functions in the Body and not all are of the same function. With each function there is a viewpoint, an understanding of what that means. As long as we avoid heresy, we should celebrate the uniqueness of each of our callings and viewpoint.
If there is not charity amongst us but name-calling, how will the world see Christ? If there is not respectful debate leading to understanding the other; then we just have strife and contention where evil lives.
To the OP I would say you are asking the wrong question.
J
JustaServant
Guest
The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
The middle of the third century would be A.D. 250, so Latin has been the language of Holy Mother Church for nearly 1800 years.
The Council of Trent replaced many Latin rites (like the many Eastern rites) with the Roman Rite, and many Latin rites converted to the Roman Rite voluntarily. That is why the single Rite, that of Rome, one of the many Latin rites, has become the dominant Rite in the West.
However, all the other Latin Rites were also in Latin.
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The middle of the third century would be A.D. 250, so Latin has been the language of Holy Mother Church for nearly 1800 years.
The Council of Trent replaced many Latin rites (like the many Eastern rites) with the Roman Rite, and many Latin rites converted to the Roman Rite voluntarily. That is why the single Rite, that of Rome, one of the many Latin rites, has become the dominant Rite in the West.
However, all the other Latin Rites were also in Latin.
J
JustaServant
Guest
The post above this one answers and hopefully educates.
You totally missed the point of the post.
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minkymurph
Guest
I am neither a Traditionalist Catholic, a Conservative Catholic, a liberal Catholic, a modernist, or any other invention.
If others want to categorize me, place me in a pigeon-hole and judge me according to their own standards, that’s their prerogative - and there’s little I can do to prevent them. What I can do is exercise my prerogative.
I’m not a believer in labels and pigeon-holes. I don’t need a label or a pigeon-hole.
I’m Catholic and I’m me.
If others want to categorize me, place me in a pigeon-hole and judge me according to their own standards, that’s their prerogative - and there’s little I can do to prevent them. What I can do is exercise my prerogative.
I’m not a believer in labels and pigeon-holes. I don’t need a label or a pigeon-hole.
I’m Catholic and I’m me.
I
IrishAm
Guest
I don’t like labels, but related to this question. “In the Pews and on My Knees” is the label I came up with. Don’t think it will catch on, as it doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker.
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JustaServant
Guest
M
Marocchino
Guest
“It is…Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another. They are to be avoided not only as “profane novelties of words,” out of harmony with both truth and justice, but also because they give rise to great trouble and confusion among Catholics. Such is the nature of Catholicism that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole or as a whole rejected: “This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved” (Athanas. Creed).” (Benedict XV)
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svid2
Guest
How about ‘Roman’?
It’s understandable to avoid labels. I won’t call you something you don’t want to be called, and I certainly don’t want to be devisive. But I reserve the right to describe myself.
My description (‘label’, if you insist) for myself is ‘traditional’. Not ‘traditionalIST’, which (to me) implies someone who rejects newer practices. I don’t reject the vernacular Mass, I just prefer the EF, and old-fashioned stuff. Others don’t.
It’s understandable to avoid labels. I won’t call you something you don’t want to be called, and I certainly don’t want to be devisive. But I reserve the right to describe myself.
My description (‘label’, if you insist) for myself is ‘traditional’. Not ‘traditionalIST’, which (to me) implies someone who rejects newer practices. I don’t reject the vernacular Mass, I just prefer the EF, and old-fashioned stuff. Others don’t.
C
CompSciGuy
Guest
You are like me. 
I think perhaps this would just be referred to as “Orthodox Catholic.” Orthodox meaning you have correct beliefs about the teachings of the Church.
I was in a “discussion” with someone a week ago who thought that Vatican II is evil and the Ordinary Form is from satan, or is a “protestantisation” of catholicism (a derisive term I find both offensive and ignorant) and blames the Ordinary Form for all the problems in the Church, like secularization and poor catechesis, etc. And of course he brought up the clown masses, the Barney mass the Bhuddist mass and all the extreme forms of abuse, as if they represented the Ordinary Form as a whole across the country… I guess this guy is what would be called a traditionalist?
There’s nothing wrong with liking to do things the traditional way. It’s when you start to say things like this, and be uncharitable about it, that traditionalism becomes stuffy, dead religion, like the evangelicals warn about all the time, and this really goes against the teachings of Christ.
I think perhaps this would just be referred to as “Orthodox Catholic.” Orthodox meaning you have correct beliefs about the teachings of the Church.
I was in a “discussion” with someone a week ago who thought that Vatican II is evil and the Ordinary Form is from satan, or is a “protestantisation” of catholicism (a derisive term I find both offensive and ignorant) and blames the Ordinary Form for all the problems in the Church, like secularization and poor catechesis, etc. And of course he brought up the clown masses, the Barney mass the Bhuddist mass and all the extreme forms of abuse, as if they represented the Ordinary Form as a whole across the country… I guess this guy is what would be called a traditionalist?
There’s nothing wrong with liking to do things the traditional way. It’s when you start to say things like this, and be uncharitable about it, that traditionalism becomes stuffy, dead religion, like the evangelicals warn about all the time, and this really goes against the teachings of Christ.
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minkymurph
Guest
Other’s can be and can identify themselves in whatever they want. As you say, we all have the right to describe ourselves - just not others.
‘Roman?’ Personally I have no difficulty with the term ‘Roman’ as I am part of the Western Church which by tradition is ‘Roman’ Catholicism. However, it depends who uses the term ‘Roman’ and why. In my part of the world the term ‘Roman’ is problematic as it has often been used in a derogatory sense.
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Marybeloved
Guest
I think I like your designation best- “Orthodox Catholics” says exactly what I meant to say in my first post. In fact, I’ll update my “Religion” like so here at CAF.You are like me.
I think perhaps this would just be referred to as “Orthodox Catholic.” Orthodox meaning you have correct beliefs about the teachings of the Church.
I was in a “discussion” with someone a week ago who thought that Vatican II is evil and the Ordinary Form is from satan, or is a “protestantisation” of catholicism (a derisive term I find both offensive and ignorant) and blames the Ordinary Form for all the problems in the Church, like secularization and poor catechesis, etc. And of course he brought up the clown masses, the Barney mass the Bhuddist mass and all the extreme forms of abuse, as if they represented the Ordinary Form as a whole across the country… I guess this guy is what would be called a traditionalist?
There’s nothing wrong with liking to do things the traditional way. It’s when you start to say things like this, and be uncharitable about it, that traditionalism becomes stuffy, dead religion, like the evangelicals warn about all the time, and this really goes against the teachings of Christ.
Peace.
S
stanczyk
Guest
Not at all. The idea that the Church is somehow unchanging is false. Change is the human condition, and it may be uncomfortable but it is a necessity.
It doesn’t matter if the Mass had been in Latin for 1800 years or 18,000 years, or 18 days. It has changed form in many ways. It was originally instituted in Aramaic or Hebrew, as a poster above wisely pointed out. Then it became Latin. After Vatican II it became vernacular in the OF.
The idea that Vatican II brought some sort of change to an unchanging entity is simply not accurate. It is human nature to want to cling to the past in the face of change, and even to attack change and resent change. This is why we have heretical traditionalists.
Traditionalists have my sympathy but not my respect. To everything there is a season. One must be able to put aside the old ways when it becomes time to do so. In resisting the changes of Vatican II the traditionalist heretics rebel against the authority of the Church. Private judgment is no substitute for the guidance of the Magisterium. Traditionalists essentially fall into the same heresy as Protestants.
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JustaServant
Guest
One of the CAF posters, can’t remember which one, has:I think I like your designation best- “Orthodox Catholics” says exactly what I meant to say in my first post. In fact, I’ll update my “Religion” like so here at CAF.
Peace.
Catholic…just Catholic.
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minkymurph
Guest
Just looking back through the posts and looked at yours again as this was the original question.
Can I ask what you mean by ‘govern’, and what you mean by the Magisterium has Divine authority to govern the Church?
Just curious as ‘govern’ is not a term I have heard before concerning the Magisterium - not a criticism.
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Marybeloved
Guest
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Filii_Dei
Guest
I believe you mean patrick457?One of the CAF posters, can’t remember which one, has:
Catholic…just Catholic.
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Havard
Guest
Small suggestion: use an undercase “o”. Orthodox with a capitalized “O” could be confusing, as it suggests an association with the Orthodox Churches.I think I like your designation best- “Orthodox Catholics” says exactly what I meant to say in my first post. In fact, I’ll update my “Religion” like so here at CAF.
Peace.
J
JustaServant
Guest
M
minkymurph
Guest
So, in this context does ‘govern’ mean:
- Conduct the policy, actions and affairs of?
or - Control, influence and regulate?
- Status