What language is licit in the marital embrace?

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I am attempting to write this post with as little explicit language as possible while still providing all salient information.

My wife and I have been married for a few months and we have had a recurring (as in 100% of the time) problem wherein I have been unable to “complete” the marital act with any form of stimulation. I suspect that I have a very low level of physical sensitivity due to years of addiction to pornography that I have only very recently experienced freedom from. We are seeking a solution to this problem that is in keeping with Church teaching.

We have been advised to “spice things up” in how we talk to each other - a solution that solved this same problem when it occurred in my days of promiscuity. But neither of us know what can licitly be said and what can’t. Can we describe illicit situations to each other, knowing that we have no intention to make those situations a reality? If so, where is the line? It seems to me that anything “naughty” could be viewed as indulging in a sinful fantasy by a sufficiently scrupulous person.

If not, we welcome any other solutions you’d like to propose.
 
CoupleQuestion said:
I am attempting to write this post with as little explicit language as possible while still providing all salient information.

My wife and I have been married for a few months and we have had a recurring (as in 100% of the time) problem wherein I have been unable to “complete” the marital act with any form of stimulation. I suspect that I have a very low level of physical sensitivity due to years of addiction to pornography that I have only very recently experienced freedom from. We are seeking a solution to this problem that is in keeping with Church teaching.

We have been advised to “spice things up” in how we talk to each other - a solution that solved this same problem when it occurred in my days of promiscuity. But neither of us know what can licitly be said and what can’t. Can we describe illicit situations to each other, knowing that we have no intention to make those situations a reality? If so, where is the line? It seems to me that anything “naughty” could be viewed as indulging in a sinful fantasy by a sufficiently scrupulous person.

If not, we welcome any other solutions you’d like to propose.
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I would think that as long as you aren’t making a third person or an object the object of your sexual desire that such would be permissible (obviously the precepts of the second commandment regarding profanity, swearing, blasphemy, and cursing must be observed, but their violation is not a matter of lust).
 
Have not time…I am sure though others will answer…certainly one does not want to be imagining pornography or describing the like…(just as one is not to watch such)…one is having marital relations with each other --husband and wife (one is not to be thinking of others).Or lust making the other a mere object. Or do or say things which would not be fitting to married persons or the dignity of persons. (One verse for lectio Hebrews 13:4)
 
I have found that using a personal lubricant seems to help me in that regard. Beyond that, whatever both you and your wife agree is appropriate should be okay.

If you are unable to resolve this otherwise, you might consider asking your doctor or a fertility specialist about this issue.
 
devoutchristian said:
I would think that as long as you aren’t making a third person or an object the object of your sexual desire that such would be permissible (obviously the precepts of the second commandment regarding profanity, swearing, blasphemy, and cursing must be observed, but their violation is not a matter of lust).
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This may be a stupid question, but when those things are excluded, what remains?
 
For some examples, try the Bible, specifically the Song of Songs. Especially “The Bride’s Beauty Extolled.”

Don’t focus on what you want to do. Focus on what you love about each other; in other words, what you find desirable about each other.

It’s tough; porn teaches us that deeds trump feelings, and that the merely physical is the most important thing about the marital act. And, as you said, it takes away that sensitivity to the little things. Bringing love back into it takes time.

Praying for you,
 
and you talking about just dirty talk and telling each other how much you like what’s going on or things that you want to do with/to each other, places, situations, etc? I think this stuff is all fine.

If you’re talking dirty talk which involves doing things with other people, then I personally think you should acquire some help. You shouldn’t have to rely on that when you have your beautiful wife in front of you. If that’s so, then it probably shows underlying mental issues.
 
CoupleQuestion said:
We have been advised to “spice things up” in how we talk to each other - a solution that solved this same problem when it occurred in my days of promiscuity. But neither of us know what can licitly be said and what can’t. Can we describe illicit situations to each other, knowing that we have no intention to make those situations a reality? If so, where is the line? It seems to me that anything “naughty” could be viewed as indulging in a sinful fantasy by a sufficiently scrupulous person.
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I’m not sure who advised you, and I’m certainly not qualified in any way to advise, but…

It seems to me that it would be a very bad idea to bring techniques from your promiscuous past into your sacramental marriage. I would have thought that a total re-thinking of sexuality is in order. Your past (porn and promiscuity) may have clouded your attitude to sex. Needing to spice things up suggests that the physical aspects of sex has been too much of the focus. Instead of feeding into that, I’d take a step back and think about what sex really means. It is not the search for physical pleasure itself, though that is a great gift from God. It is a deep connection, an intimacy that only the two spouses share and draw closer to each other.

Sex is about connecting. What you say in bed should be about connecting. It seems what you describe is the opposite of this. I’m not sure on specifically what you mean, but how would (just as an example) pretending that you’re two different people who are meeting up for a secret rendezvous help you connect to your wife…you’d be connecting to an imaginary fantasy instead. Or how would taking dirty (depending on what is meant) help you view your wife with the dignity she deserves?

I think what GangGreen described is right. There’s a difference between telling each other what you like, what you’d like to do, etc, and introducing thoughts, fantasies, etc that go beyond your marriage.

Your body needs to re-learn what sex is about…don’t feed it with your old and wrong ideas. Keep your focus on your wife and connecting with her.
 
Thank you for the advice, all. I suspect that I would benefit from some sort of therapy.

Just as a sanity check: it’s not a sin for us to continue to make love while knowing that I will probably not climax, right? I try every time, I just haven’t been able to.
 
Due to use of pornography, you need pornographic type situations to climax. Instead of dealing with that and working through it, you want to make the marital embrace into pornography to achieve climax.

I don’t think that solves your problem. I think it just creates a new one.

I encourage you to seek counseling with a Catholic priest or Catholic psychologist. Steve Woods ministry of www.dads.org may be able to help with referrals.
 
1ke said:
Due to use of pornography, you need pornographic type situations to climax. Instead of dealing with that and working through it, you want to make the marital embrace into pornography to achieve climax.

I don’t think that solves your problem. I think it just creates a new one.

I encourage you to seek counseling with a Catholic priest or Catholic psychologist. Steve Woods ministry of www.dads.org may be able to help with referrals.
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Actually, I’ve been dealing with it and working through it for quite awhile. I have a daily accountability partner, I attend weekly group meetings, I have installed filtering software on my computer, and I pray the rosary every day.

What do you think your condescension adds to the conversation?
 
CoupleQuestion said:
What do you think your condescension adds to the conversation?
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I did not intend to be condescending. This is how I see your question-- “how pornographic can I get in the marital embrace?”

I simply do not think that is the solution to your problem.

I am glad you have an accountablity partner and if you have a therapist I hope it is not he who suggested “spicing it up” as the solution.
 
1ke said:
I did not intend to be condescending. This is how I see your question-- “how pornographic can I get in the marital embrace?”

I simply do not think that is the solution to your problem.

I am glad you have an accountablity partner and if you have a therapist I hope it is not he who suggested “spicing it up” as the solution.
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That has to be the least charitable interpretation of my words possible, especially given that I said we are seeking a solution that is compatible with Church teaching. But then charity is the last thing I’ve come to expect from you.
 
OP, in the last couple of years, what’s the longest you’ve gone without sex or looking at pornography? It’s just a suggestion, but if your wife is okay with it, it could be that taking a hiatus from sex could help make it more exciting when you resume. Sort of like the honeymoon effect.
 
nodito said:
OP, in the last couple of years, what’s the longest you’ve gone without sex or looking at pornography? It’s just a suggestion, but if your wife is okay with it, it could be that taking a hiatus from sex could help make it more exciting when you resume. Sort of like the honeymoon effect.
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When I read the OP, the answer was blatantly obvious to me and as I scrolled down page one it hadn’t been touched on… but here it is.

The body in this regard, is so primal. It can’t be manipulated with tricks and techniques. You have to teach it like a child really, the art of appreciation through moderation. Abstinence is a natural part of natural family planning and it necessitates marital partners regarding ourselves and each other respectfully, during those periods. It brings a different quality to the lovemaking part of a marriage when you have the natural restraints in place.

Best to you. So glad you got away from pornography. What a sinister industry that is.
 
nodito said:
OP, in the last couple of years, what’s the longest you’ve gone without sex or looking at pornography? It’s just a suggestion, but if your wife is okay with it, it could be that taking a hiatus from sex could help make it more exciting when you resume. Sort of like the honeymoon effect.
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Six weeks. We have a built in abstinence period since we use NFP. We’ve been through phase 3 twice now with me being chaste, hoping that the problem would work itself out, but it hasn’t.

It’s not that sex isn’t exciting, it’s that after a few minutes I lose most physical sensation, or sometimes I don’t experience much even to start.
 
CoupleQuestion said:
Six weeks. We have a built in abstinence period since we use NFP. We’ve been through phase 3 twice now with me being chaste, hoping that the problem would work itself out, but it hasn’t.

It’s not that sex isn’t exciting, it’s that after a few minutes I lose most physical sensation, or sometimes I don’t experience much even to start.
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Give it a little time. Be sure to make your abstinence true abstinence. Sometimes there’s a temptation to do everything but licit consumation. That really voids both the spiritual and physical meaning of nfp.
 
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