What Leadership Roles Can Women Play During Mass or in the RC Church

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The_Curt_Jester said:
Sorry for the off-topic again, but in the old days a vote was considered a family’s vote, not just the vote of the man. When a man and woman are united in matrimony, they become ONE, remember? Why not vote as one as well? The only reason needed for two votes is to allow them to offset each other, which is self-defeating.
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That’s not quite true.

In the old days (prior to the 20th century) women were considered the property of their fathers and/or husbands. Although in the West, their status gradually improved to the point where they were considered more or less permanent minors.
 
GloriousOrder said:
Do you think you could just edit one or two of your posts to contain new edits? It’s really confusing to have a new one every three or four minutes, and the moderators probably don’t like it.

My masculinity is something I have because God gave it to me. I’m thankful for it, but I’m thankful that we have the feminine nature to balance us. What’s so hard about this, that you refuse to believe it?** My wording comes across as harsh because it’s so cold and technical, but you cannot say it’s all about me.** I really want others to find out what is true, just as much as I’m in this thread to discover the truth. If someone can show me that the Mass becomes more reverent and the Church is better served by females running things, I’ll accede to the notion. The fact is that there has been a correlation between women getting more power in the Church, and the Church losing seminaries, parishes being merged, faithful falling away, and Catholics being raised with hardly any notion of the most basic prayers and virtues. If it’s “post hoc; ergo, propter hoc”, then please show us.

Kozlosap, I’m 22.
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Your words don’t come across as harsh and technical, they come across as arrogant and condescending (at least to me).

And your analysis of modern day Catholicism and its problems ignores at least one key element. The abuses of power and trust by male priests and bishops that led to the international child abuse scandal the Church is currently dealing with. That cannot legitmately be blamed on women in power or Feminism.
 
TMC said:
OK, but beyond your opinion is there any authority that says that women cannot serve in the EF as they do in the OF? Summorum Pontificum says that the Mass may be celebrated in accordance with the 1962 Missal but also that the Mass should observe “all the norms of law.” I don’t think the missal sets out the rules on servers, and if it did, wouldn’t it require that servers be acolytes (wasn’t that the requirement back then)? It seems to me that other than the form of the Mass, the other laws of the Church apply to the EF as they do to the OF, or is the EF exempt from the GIRM and other authoritative instructions on the Mass?
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All I can say is I’ve never seen a woman in the sanctuary at a EF Mass. Nor have I seen what could be termed a novelty or innovation. There surely is a reason for that, but I can’t point to an official document or similar.

All I can say is, I’m certain there was a time when there were things Roman Catholics simply didn’t do or speak of. And customizing the Mass to personal taste was one of them.

All I can offer is that perhaps traditional ways were once honored, and in the case of the Mass, isolated unapproved exceptions aside, were so up until the early 60’s.

Perhaps Chesterton had it right

“Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around.”

or even St Vincent of Lerins

“What if some novel contagion seek to infect the whole Church, and not merely a small portion of it? Then he will take care to cling to antiquity, which cannot now be led astray by any novel deceit.” -
 
At_Trent said:
All I can say is I’ve never seen a woman in the sanctuary at a EF Mass. Nor have I seen what could be termed a novelty or innovation. There surely is a reason for that, but I can’t point to an official document or similar.

All I can say is, I’m certain there was a time when there were things Roman Catholics simply didn’t do or speak of. And customizing the Mass to personal taste was one of them.

All I can offer is that perhaps traditional ways were once honored, and in the case of the Mass, isolated unapproved exceptions aside, were so up until the early 60’s.

Perhaps Chesterton had it right

“Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around.”

or even St Vincent of Lerins

“What if some novel contagion seek to infect the whole Church, and not merely a small portion of it? Then he will take care to cling to antiquity, which cannot now be led astray by any novel deceit.” -
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It seems to me that exempting the EF from the ordinary laws of the Church is “customizing the Mass to personal taste.”
 
TMC said:
It seems to me that exempting the EF from the ordinary laws of the Church is “customizing the Mass to personal taste.”
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Write the pope and tell him you have a problem with the SP then. While you are at it, write a letter to the FSSP and demand to know why they don’t use altar girls and EMHC.

Tell them how appalling you find their reverence and piety, and how threatened you feel.

Who knows ? The pope might abrogate the EF and excommunicate all those you deem too orthodox.
 
iwillendure said:
or upholding 2000 year old tradition
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Stick around. Those who only post in TC to ridicule and contradict will soon be easy to identify. They are the ones who seldom post without quoting others to find fault. Their opinions are golden and are the only ones that count…in their minds.

God Bless
 
TrueLight said:
I know that women aren’t allowed to be Priests or Deacons in the RC Church.

I have seen women who collect the “gifts”.

Also, I have seen women in some masses on EWTN help to distribute the communion. Is that acceptable to the Catholic Church?

Can women be readers?

What other roles can women play aside from becoming nun teachers?
Thanks!
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Women can assist at the Holy Sacrifice and have large families and be mothers who inspire vocations and live a life of sacrificial service.
 
TMC said:
I think you may be right as to the GIRM, but I think the Canon is probably the actual authority. The Canon formerly restricted that function to men, but the new Canon does not. The GIRM may or may not apply to the EF ,but the EF cannot be exempt from the Canon.
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Custom has the force of law. That is why we cannot have female altar boys in the Old Rite. The New Rite is a new creation and so it does not have any customs yet and can be tweaked and manipulated.

Of course, some people have sought to blend the two Rites into something even more bizarre and so there is the fear that we could have Traditional Masses that feature altar girls or communion-in-the-hand. It’s a very scary prospect.
I don’t think whether certain people would “put up” with female altar servers at the EF is the right question to ask. If the EF is to be merely a relic occasionally provided to appease old folks and nostalgics, then that may make sense. But if the EF is meant to be an alternate form of Mass for all Catholics, it seems to me it must conform to the norms of the Church and be available for all to attend.
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No, we are trying to preserve and grow Catholic faith and practice apart from post-Vatican II innovations. We are just trying to do what our grandfathers did (and not what our fathers, who were responsible for the revolution in the Church in the 1960s and 70s, did). You can’t just start changing things with positive law to be more politically correct.

It would be better to not have a TLM than to have a “TLM” with altar girls.
 
GloriousOrder said:
I would discourage any daughter of mine from assuming a leadership position of any sort. They would be bought dresses, not jeans; they would be given dolls, not trucks, and they would be loved as human beings distinct from other human beings. I would indeed tell her not to run for such things (and not only because I’m not in favour of Democracy ;)), be they High School presidency or the premiership of a country. I certainly wouldn’t encourage her to become a physician, and I would always vote for a man over a woman if I absolutely had to vote. This is me, not absolute universal law… and the thread wanted opinions, so I gave mine. 🙂

.
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Won’t work! Or at least it didn’t for me…I’m the last of three…the only girl. My mom bought me dresses and dolls and purses… AND I HATED THEM ALL! I was the youngest and had two older brothers… I was a tomboy from the word go. No matter what my mother encouraged.

Now…as a female married person…unable to have kids…and so not the motherly type…don’t know why…I am glad that the Church doesn’t teach some of the narrow minded stuff here. But as a married woman…I have put my career on the back burner at times in deference to my husband…not because he asked but because I wanted to.

Does that make me a bad Catholic?
 
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