What made someone an apostle versus a disciple?

[shawn38]

The criteria for being an apostle was spelled out throughout the NT: The apostles were:

by the will of God (Eph 1:1, 1 Cor 1:1, 2 Tim 1:1, Col 1:1, 2 Cor 1:1),
by the command of God (1 Tim 1:1),
sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father (Gal 1:1),
set apart for the gospel of God (Rom 1:1),
servant of God (1:1, Titus 1:1),
Have seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1),
appointed an apostle and a teacher (Matt 28:16,2 Tim 1:11, 1 Tim 2:7),
performed things that mark an apostle–signs, wonders and miracles (2 Cor 12:12),
Have God working in their ministry (Gal 2:8),
and were a witness of his resurrection." (Acts 1:22),
Jesus gave them power and authority (Luke 9:1, 2 Cor 10:8, 2 Cor 13:10)

So if these were the conditions for being an apostle, can someone be one today?

What all are the conditions for being a disciple? Where would the line be drawn differentiating between an apostle from a disciple?

 

[SSTeacher]

The criteria for being an apostle was spelled out throughout the NT: The apostles were:

by the will of God (Eph 1:1, 1 Cor 1:1, 2 Tim 1:1, Col 1:1, 2 Cor 1:1),
by the command of God (1 Tim 1:1),
sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father (Gal 1:1),
set apart for the gospel of God (Rom 1:1),
servant of God (1:1, Titus 1:1),
Have seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1),
appointed an apostle and a teacher (Matt 28:16,2 Tim 1:11, 1 Tim 2:7),
performed things that mark an apostle–signs, wonders and miracles (2 Cor 12:12),
Have God working in their ministry (Gal 2:8),
and were a witness of his resurrection." (Acts 1:22),
Jesus gave them power and authority (Luke 9:1, 2 Cor 10:8, 2 Cor 13:10)

So if these were the conditions for being an apostle, can someone be one today?

What all are the conditions for being a disciple? Where would the line be drawn differentiating between an apostle from a disciple?

Here’s an extract from the Holman Bible Dictionary:

APOSTLES Persons sent to accomplish a mission, especially the twelve apostles Jesus commissioned to follow Him. An apostle represents the one sending and has authority to represent the sender in business, political, or educational situations.

In the Gospels Matthew used the term “apostles” only at Matthew 10:2, introducing the list of twelve apostles. Otherwise, he wrote only of the “twelve” (11:1; 20:17; 26:14,20,47; compare 19:28). Mark used “apostles” only once (6:30) as they returned from their mission trip (6:7-11). He, too, referred more often to the twelve (3:14; 4:10; 6:7; 9:35; 10:32; 11:11; 14:10,17,20,43). Apostles appears only once in John in the general statement “he that is sent (Greek, apostolos) (is not) greater than he that sent him” (13:16).

Luke is the Gospel of the apostles, especially when read in light of its continuation in Acts. Compare Luke 6:13; 9:10; 11:49. The apostles asked Jesus for increased faith (17:5) and participated with Him in the final Passover and the first Lord’s Supper (22:14). Finally, the women had to tell the news of the resurrection to the apostles (24:10). Thus in the Four Gospels, the word “apostle” does not play a strong role. The Twelve is the preferred term (Luke 6:13; 8:1; 9:1,12; 18:31; 22:3,14,47; compare 22:30).

In Acts “Apostles” is an important concept in Acts. Jesus chose the apostles through the Holy Spirit and instructed them concerning their missionary mission which the Holy Spirit would empower them to carry out (1:2-8). They had a forty–day instruction period with the risen Lord before the ascension, but still they could not know “the times or seasons” of the full restoration of the kingdom (1:3-7). They were eyewitnesses of the ascension (1:9) and heard the angelic promise of His future return (1:11). They understood the betrayal by Judas as fulfillment of Scripture (1:16) and felt the need to replace him to keep their number at twelve. Qualifications for an apostle were clear: participation in Jesus’ earthly ministry beginning with His baptism and a witness of the resurrection (1:21-22). At Pentecost people asked the apostles’ leadership in how to respond to Peter’s sermon (2:37). New converts remained in “the apostles’ teaching” (2:42 NIV, NASB, NRSV). The apostles did signs and wonders 2:43; 5:12; compare Mark 6:7-13). They both preached the gospel (4:33) and directed social ministry to the poor (4:35). Even time in jail did not keep them from preaching the gospel (5:18,29). Gamaliel, a member of the Sanhedrin, managed to gain freedom for the apostles, but they still suffered a beating (5:33-40). The apostle reacted with rejoicing at the opportunity to suffer for Christ (5:41) and continued to preach (5:42).

The twelve led in the selection of the first deacons to minister to the needy (6:2, the only use of “the twelve” in Acts). See Deacon. The apostles prayed and laid their hands on these newly selected servants of the church (6:6). See Laying on of Hands, Ordination. When persecution caused the church to scatter and spread the gospel, the apostles remained in Jerusalem (8:1). They sent Peter and John to represent them in Samaria, see the result of evangelistic work there, and pray for the Holy Spirit to come upon the new converts (8:14-15). When the apostles laid their hands on the converts, they received the Spirit (8:17). They taught Simon, one of the Samaritans, that apostolic power could not be purchased with money (8:20). Barnabas introduced Paul to the apostles in Jerusalem (9:27), thus apparently giving apostolic acceptance of Paul’s preaching ministry. Peter’s mission to Cornelius and the Gentiles at Caesarea (ch. 10) caused division among the apostles (11:1-2) until Peter’s explanation caused them to give God glory (11:18). Acts 14:4,14 introduces Paul and Barnabas as apostles, using the term for persons outside the twelve. In 15:2 “elders” join the apostles in hearing the case against Paul and Barnabas at the “Jerusalem Council.” See Elders. The apostles and elders then sent a letter to the church at Antioch explaining the “council’s” decision on how to deal with the Gentile question (15:22). The Jerusalem representatives – Judas Barsabbas and Silas – completed their task and returned to the apostles (15:33). Paul and Timothy distributed the decrees of the apostles and elders to the Gentile churches (16:4). Here the word “apostles” disappears from Acts, not appearing in the last twelve chapters.

Biblically,
Mick

 

[DebChris]

An apostle is somebody who is “sent out.”
A disciple, on the other hand, is a student. Disciple comes from the word discipline which means to learn. Each of us, regardless of our vocation, is called to be a disciple.
When we read the gospels, we find that the Apostles were first disciples who learned at the feet of Jesus. It is He who commissioned them to preach the good news.
While all are called to be disciples, not all are called to be apostles.
Another way to look at this as individuals who spent time in school. While in school, each of us was a student (a disciple). Not everybody became a teacher. Most were called to other vocations. As students we learned to read, write, and perform calculations which we now use at varying levels, in our daily life.

 

[shawn38]

An apostle is somebody who is “sent out.”
A disciple, on the other hand, is a student. Disciple comes from the word discipline which means to learn. Each of us, regardless of our vocation, is called to be a disciple.
When we read the gospels, we find that the Apostles were first disciples who learned at the feet of Jesus. It is He who commissioned them to preach the good news.
While all are called to be disciples, not all are called to be apostles.
Another way to look at this as individuals who spent time in school. While in school, each of us was a student (a disciple). Not everybody became a teacher. Most were called to other vocations. As students we learned to read, write, and perform calculations which we now use at varying levels, in our daily life.

What about being witnesses to the resurrection?(Acts 1:22), and
Have seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1),
Jesus gave them power and authority (Luke 9:1, 2 Cor 10:8, 2 Cor 13:10). Power given to them directly from Christ

 

[DebChris]

What about being witnesses to the resurrection?(Acts 1:22), and
Have seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1),
Jesus gave them power and authority (Luke 9:1, 2 Cor 10:8, 2 Cor 13:10). Power given to them directly from Christ

Within our own life we are witnesses of the Resurrection.
You are right about the special power that was given to the Apostles by Christ himself when He equipped them for the mission which He gave each of them.
As Catholics, we believe that these gifts, these graces, are given to us through the Sacraments. A priest is an Apostle and receives these gifts when he receives the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The power that the priest has is a gift directly given him by Jesus Christ.
Christ dwells within each of our hearts.What the Apostles witnessed physically, what they learned at the feet of Jesus has been handed on to each of us through holy Tradition which is protected by the power of the Holy Spirit through the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church. The Magisterium consists of the pope in union with the bishops.

 

[shawn38]

Within our own life we are witnesses of the Resurrection.
.

Paul in 1 Cor 9 defends his apostleship

1 Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?
3 This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me

Based on his defense, for he was defending himself as noted in verse 3, having physically seen Jesus was a requirement.

 

[DebChris]

Paul in 1 Cor 9 defends his apostleship

1 Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?
3 This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me

Based on his defense, for he was defending himself as noted in verse 3, having physically seen Jesus was a requirement.

Physically seeing Jesus is not a requirement. Indeed many saw Jesus and heard His words, yet only 12 made up the cohort known as His Apostles.
Even if we have not physically seen Jesus, we can have a personal relationship with the Risen Lord who dwells within our hearts.
The disciples who walked with Jesus on the Road to Emmaus recognized Jesus in the breaking of the bread.
We see Jesus through the open eyes of faith. Once Christ rose from the dead, physical sight was no longer a requirement.
“In His public ministry, Jesus impacted only a localized geographical area in Palestine. In His risen ministry, miles of territory, locked doors, and death are no longer barriers to Him. The risen Lord has no barriers except our doubts.” (*One Bread, One Body * by www.presentationministries.com for Wednesday April 7, 2010).

 

[shawn38]

Physically seeing Jesus is not a requirement. Indeed many saw Jesus and heard His words, yet only 12 made up the cohort known as His Apostles.

But the 12 apostles did physically see Him and physically witnesseed the resurrected Christ. Clearly others knew Jesus and witnessed the resurrection, yet rather than increasing the number to 13 (by adding Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias), they still kept the number at twelve. The new apostle was to replace Judas who was “one of our number and share in this ministry.” They even casted lots to see who would replace Judas for they had two qualified candidates.

Criteria spelled out by Peter: It is necessary for what?

They had to have been there since the beginning to end of Christ’s ministry &
and a witness with the 11 apostles of the resurrection

Acts 1:21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

What happened that could necessitate the requirement of witnessing the resurrected Christ? Thomas perhaps.

Thomas was missing when Jesus came to the disciples.
Jn 20:24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

Thomas didn’t believe. We cannot say that the other apostles would not have believed too for they were there.
Jn 20:25But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”
But when Thomas did see, he believed.
Jn 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed;

Peter truly didn’t belive either until after the rooster crowed.
Matt 26:35 But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
When Peter’s faith in Christ was tested, he denied Christ three times.
Matt 26:74Immediately a rooster crowed. 75Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: “Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.” And he went outside and wept bitterly.
The crowing of the rooster following the denials confirmed that Jesus was Lord.
Jn 21:18 but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”

By Paul having to defend his apostleship and requirements stated by Peter in Acts 1, it’s evident that apostles had to literally witness the resurrected Christ.

Thus I would say that there’s disciples today, but no apostles unless we redefine what an apostle is.

Even if we have not physically seen Jesus, we can have a personal relationship with the Risen Lord who dwells within our hearts.

Absolutely

 

[Libertarian_FL]

Taking out the NT books and references not IN a gospel that leaves two from the original list. The Great Commission assuming we take it on its face value simply was a command to continue His work that of teaching and spreading the message to the whole world. Ok that is not Jesus saying YOUR and APOSTLE only God can grant titles like that. And Luke He simply sent them out on a limited mission to preach like He did and to spread His words - that sounds to me no different than any clergyperson might be called on today to do.

I will note he also sent out 70 to do the same thing in pairs using the same concepts they could be called Apostles.

And I don’t care what the Apostles decided to do to say you had to be an Apostle that is like having the wolves guarding the hen house. Its no different in the Universal Life Church ,my church, where you can buy a title for yourself for $10 even Apostle. I mean its silly unless Jesus Himself in more than one gospel used that term for the 12 did he? And I think they did this after studying the Word to gain power and lord their status over the others after all its clear in the gospels at least 82 people were called to teach and spread the word of God the 70 and the 12.

So I will make the simple case Apostle or Disciple is in effect the same thing someone following Jesus and His teachings and promoting the faith as in all that believe.

 

[shawn38]

Taking out the NT books and references not IN a gospel that leaves two from the original list. .

Jesus in Hebrews, Paul references himself in his letters, Peter references himself in his letters, Peter in reference to Matthias in Acts, Paul referencing James in Galatians, James referenced as an apostle in Acts,

And I think they did this after studying the Word to gain power and lord their status over the others after all its clear in the gospels at least 82 people were called to teach and spread the word of God the 70 and the 12.

It is interesting that they did not expand the number to 13 by including Joseph called Barsabbas who apparently qualified as an apostle.

Acts 1:21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one

 

[shawn38]

Anyone!

Why did the apostles choose not to add beyond the number of twelve apostles when they had qualified candidates? I’d be especially interested in a Catholic’s view point.

 

[dianaiad]

The criteria for being an apostle was spelled out throughout the NT: The apostles were:

by the will of God (Eph 1:1, 1 Cor 1:1, 2 Tim 1:1, Col 1:1, 2 Cor 1:1),
by the command of God (1 Tim 1:1),
sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father (Gal 1:1),
set apart for the gospel of God (Rom 1:1),
servant of God (1:1, Titus 1:1),
Have seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1),
appointed an apostle and a teacher (Matt 28:16,2 Tim 1:11, 1 Tim 2:7),
performed things that mark an apostle–signs, wonders and miracles (2 Cor 12:12),
Have God working in their ministry (Gal 2:8),
and were a witness of his resurrection." (Acts 1:22),
Jesus gave them power and authority (Luke 9:1, 2 Cor 10:8, 2 Cor 13:10)

So if these were the conditions for being an apostle, can someone be one today?

Oh, how can I resist that one?

You betcha.



…and for the same reasons that made Paul an apostle.

What all are the conditions for being a disciple? Where would the line be drawn differentiating between an apostle from a disciple?

Interesting question. I know what I think…I’m looking forward to other comments.

 

[kepha1]

Anyone!

Why did the apostles choose not to add beyond the number of twelve apostles when they had qualified candidates? I’d be especially interested in a Catholic’s view point.

They did. "Silvanus [Silas], Timothy, St. Barnabus, Apollos, and St. Titus were either called apostles by St. Paul, or were given responsibilities reserved only for Apostles. It only makes sense that as the Church continued to expand, so did the need for additional Apostles or bishops.

Scripture shows that only the Apostles are “entrusted” with the care of the Gospel message, it is not for each individual bible reader to claim this for themselves.This does not mean that the Church heirarchy is somehow a separate entity from the rest of the believers, but the Church leadership has a responsibility to teach this Gospel message as it has been handed down in its entirety through Tradition and Scripture. Many Christians cannot comprehend how the Scriptures are actually a subset of Tradition, but that is the realaity. Apostolic Teaching was the big deal in the early Church, not Scriptures they did not yet have. but I digress.

Scripture shows that only the Apostles are “entrusted” with the care of the Gospel message:
• St. Paul “…they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised.”(Gal. 2:7)
“…in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.” (2 Cor. 5:19)
“…in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.” (1 Tim. 1:11)
• St. Timothy
“Paul, Silvanus [Silas], and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians… we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel.” (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:4)
“O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you.” (1 Tim. 6:20) “…guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.” (2 Tim. 1:14)
NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THE GOSPEL MESSAGE CONFINED TO THE WRITTEN WORD ALONE, AND NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THE GOSPEL MESSAGE “ENTRUSTED” TO THE UN-ORDAINED.

It is not only St. Timothy who is called an apostle by Sacred Scripture, but also St. Barnabus, Apollos, and St. Titus:
St. Barnabus - “But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out among the multitude…” (Acts 14:14)
Apollos - “I planted, Apollos watered… He who plants and he who waters are equal.” (1 Cor. 3:6, 8) “I have applied all this to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brethren… For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death.” (1 Cor. 4:6,9)

Scripture also shows that only the Apostles refer to the Gospel message as their own personal possession:

“…when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.” (Rom. 2:16)

“Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ…” (Rom. 16:25)
“Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descended from David, as preached in my gospel.” (2 Tim. 2:8)
“Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians… for our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction.” (1 Thess. 1:1 & 5)
“Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians… God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel…” (2 Thess. 1:1 & 2:13-14)

NOTE: THE WRITTEN GOSPELS DID NOT EXIST WHEN ST. PAUL WROTE HIS EPISTLES, SO THE “GOSPEL MESSAGE” DOES NOT REFER TO THE WRITTEN VEHICLE OF TRANSMISSION ALONE.

 

[kepha1]

The Apostles possess the Gospel message precisely because it was (as the above passages demonstrated) “entrusted” to them, i.e., given to them, and not taken by them on their own initiative. This is completely in keeping with the restriction imposed by Heb. 5:4.
The Apostles pass the mission and authority on to men like St. Timothy and St. Titus (“with all authority” Tit 2:15)
The second apostolic generation is expected to entrust the mission to the next generation, ad infinitum

It is this last point that we must now unpack and develop a bit further. The first generation of Apostles takes care to not only pass along the message, but also creates new pastors with apostolic authority to continue transmitting the message:

“And when they [Ss. Paul and Barnabus] had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed.” (Acts 14:23)
“This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you.” (Tit. 1:5) “…and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” (2 Tim. 2:2)

Note once again the appearance of the word “entrust” in this last passage. St. Paul expects that St. Timothy will “guard what has been entrusted” to him, and then later “entrust” that same mission and authority “to faithful men.”

There can be no other reason why St. Paul would leave his two spiritual “sons” (Ss. Titus and Timothy) explicit instructions about the qualifications for overseers, elders, bishops, etc. (c.f. 1 Tim 3:1-7, Tit. 1:5-9), than that he expects them to confer apostolic authority on new men who meet those requirements.

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him… then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” (Gen. 1:27, 2:7) “When Adam had lived a hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.” (Gen. 5:3)

What these two passages tell us is that, when God created Adam, He was fathering a son in His own image and likeness. Note that God, in the act of fathering his first human son, breathes on the Man, at which point the Man receives his living spirit. Compare this to Jesus and the Apostles:

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” (John 20:21-22)

In the context of conferring His authority on the Apostles, commissioning them to go in His name to build and govern His Church, Jesus does the very same thing His Father did to the First Adam: He breathes upon them, gives them the Spirit, and “fathers” them, spiritually speaking.
This is why the Apostles then turn around and “father” new sons (that is, pastors, bishops, etc., with apostolic authority) - because this is what Jesus did to them. Thus we see St. Paul referring to Ss. Titus and Timothy (both second-generation apostles, according to Scripture) as his “sons,” and calling himself their “father”:

“But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel.” (Phil 2:22)

“To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.” (1 Tim. 1:2)
“To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.” (2 Tim. 1:2 “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.” (Tit. 1:4)

From here, we turn to the area of preaching specifically, that is, intepreting and teaching Scripture. Along with the title of “pastor,” you (if you are a Protestant pastor) take upon yourself this responsibility, of “rightly dividing the word of truth” and teaching your flock from Scripture. Yet, as the Scriptures note that only the Apostles are “entrusted” with the Gospel, and only the Apostles refer to the Gospel in the possessive, so also the Scriptures teach that only validly appointed and commissioned “ambassadors” can have the responsibility of teaching Scripture in this authoritative fashion.

 

[kepha1]

Although many Protestant pastors apply St. Paul’s words, “rightly divide the word of truth,” to themselves, in fact, these words were written to St. Timothy specifically, not to the congregation in general. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 shows the relationship between the legitimate ambassador and Scripture:
“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim. 3:16-17) There is the relationship: the Scriptures are a tool for “teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” but who is to use this tool for these purposes? That is, who has the authority to teach, reproof, correct, and train others in righteousness? The “man of God” has this authority.
But, who is the “man of God?” You may wish to claim this title for yourself as well, but a short survey of Scripture’s use of the title will reveal that this, too, is a privileged title that cannot be simply taken upon oneself:
gleaned from catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/authority.html

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Although many Protestant pastors apply St. Paul’s words, “rightly divide the word of truth,” to themselves, in fact, these words were written to St. Timothy specifically, not to the congregation in general. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 shows the relationship between the legitimate ambassador and Scripture:
“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim. 3:16-17) There is the relationship: the Scriptures are a tool for “teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” but who is to use this tool for these purposes? That is, who has the authority to teach, reproof, correct, and train others in righteousness? The “man of God” has this authority.
But, who is the “man of God?” You may wish to claim this title for yourself as well, but a short survey of Scripture’s use of the title will reveal that this, too, is a privileged title that cannot be simply taken upon oneself:
gleaned from catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/authority.html

Your apologetics friends here seem to be saying that Jesus gave the Gospel message exclusively to the apostles and that they then gave this message on to others that were of this exclusive club that was ordained of men to carry on the gospel message. I see the scriptures that you use seem to be creatively edited to exclude texts that seem to be in opposition to this notion. For instance they say “Although many Protestant pastors apply St. Paul’s words, “rightly divide the word of truth**,” to themselves, in fact, these words were written to St. Timothy specifically, not to the congregation in general. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 shows the relationship between the legitimate ambassador and Scripture:” ** Let’s take a look at 2Cor.5 and see who Paul is saying should be Christ’s ambassadors.

2Cor.5
14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

(It says here that Jesus died FOR ALL and they that live through Him should no longer live unto themselves)

16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(In this verse we see that if ANY MAN be in Christ, he is a new creature.)

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Ok, when Paul says here “God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” The “us” is not this exclusive club to whom you refer. The “us” refers back to ANY MAN.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

(Again here we see that God was not committing the word of reconciliation to a select few but has committed the word of reconciliation to us “ANY MAN”)

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

(The word “we” here again refers back not to an eclusive club of ordained priests, but to ANY MAN who has been renewed in Christ.)

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So now “we” are ambassadors of Christ and God has committed to “us”, anyone who has been renewed in Christ, the ministry of reconciliation and this is not contingiant upon being ordained by man, but being renewed in Christ. "that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

 

[Reuben_J]

The criteria for being an apostle was spelled out throughout the NT: The apostles were:

by the will of God (Eph 1:1, 1 Cor 1:1, 2 Tim 1:1, Col 1:1, 2 Cor 1:1),
by the command of God (1 Tim 1:1),
sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father (Gal 1:1),
set apart for the gospel of God (Rom 1:1),
servant of God (1:1, Titus 1:1),
Have seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1),
appointed an apostle and a teacher (Matt 28:16,2 Tim 1:11, 1 Tim 2:7),
performed things that mark an apostle–signs, wonders and miracles (2 Cor 12:12),
Have God working in their ministry (Gal 2:8),
and were a witness of his resurrection." (Acts 1:22),
Jesus gave them power and authority (Luke 9:1, 2 Cor 10:8, 2 Cor 13:10)

So if these were the conditions for being an apostle, can someone be one today?

What all are the conditions for being a disciple? Where would the line be drawn differentiating between an apostle from a disciple?

Strictly speaking, apostles are the twelve chosen by Jesus. If Jesus started a ‘movement’, the apostles were ‘office holders’. In later years office holders can be passed on from one person to the other. Thus apostles are always connected to the office they hold and one cannot be an apostle without the ‘office’, in other word, you cannot self make or appoint yourself as an apostle but that does not mean you are not a disciple.

Disciples are not necessarily apostles though they can be ones if they are chosen. Disciples merely mean followers - ones who believe.

Paul is an apostle extraordinaire - he was chosen by Jesus after the resurrection.

 

[shawn38]

They did. "Silvanus [Silas], Timothy, St. Barnabus, Apollos, and St. Titus were either called apostles by St. Paul, or were given responsibilities reserved only for Apostles. It only makes sense that as the Church continued to expand, so did the need for additional Apostles or bishops.

Conducting a search, I could find no results showing Timothy, Silas, Titus, Barnabus, and Apollos being called an apostle. Performing some of the duties of the apostles did not mean that they were apostles. For instance, a deacon is not a priest though he can conduct most of the mass.

Perhaps you can attach the passage indicating them as apostles and just not that they conducted some tasks for them. I’m sure we can find that many people performed tasks. There were several helpers of Pauls listed in Romans 16 that could fall under this.

Just for instance
Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus 12Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.

Lets not assume. Peter specifically left the number at 12 for a reason even though Acs 1:14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers. The church had begun to grow significantly since the beginning of Christ’s ministry. And as mentioned earlier, Barsabbas was just as qualified as Matthias, yet they cast lots rather than choosing both keeping the number at 12.

 

[shawn38]

Strictly speaking, apostles are the twelve chosen by Jesus. If Jesus started a ‘movement’, the apostles were ‘office holders’…

But the criteria was strict. Peter specifically mentioned two when choosing between Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias.

Acts 1:21-22 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

The apostles had to literally be there from the beginning and had witnessed the resurrection.

Disciples are not necessarily apostles though they can be ones if they are chosen. Disciples merely mean followers - ones who believe.

Agreed. The disciples were first made by the apostles in the starting of the ministry. Aside from Matthias being picked, no where in the NT does it indicate that an apostle annoited other apostles.

 

[dianaiad]

But the criteria was strict. Peter specifically mentioned two when choosing between Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias.

Acts 1:21-22 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

The apostles had to literally be there from the beginning and had witnessed the resurrection.

Paul.