What makes a human life more valuable than an animal's?

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What makes a human’s life more valuable that an animal’s, if it’s not speciazation?

I’ve been asked this question, and this is the only answer that I can think of without bringing up God (can you provide a better answer)?

The choice between killing a human life and an animal life is different because when we kill our unborn, we are choosing to kill one of our own. We destroy life at its weakest, and I think that through this action we are allowing us to tell ourselves a lie about what a human really is. We believe in the lie that a human is “just” another animal, that its existence isn’t really important until it can become a member of society according to our standards of what makes a human life worth defending (through different criteria - like brain function, pain reception, etc). The truth is that our lives cannot, and should not be sold like a commodity, and though killing an animal can also be a disrespect of life, we are more than just another animal, we are also human like that unborn baby, and so killing an unborn baby is the killing of our own, and that in itself is untrue to who and what we are, it betrays us. A mother and father’s role is turned in on itself and destroyed when we give into abortion - the father no longer protects his family, and the mother no longer gives care to their child.

What’s your take?
 
SpeakKindly wrote: “What makes a human’s life more valuable that an animal’s, if it’s not speciazation? I’ve been asked this question, and this is the only answer that I can think of without bringing up God (can you provide a better answer)?”

You ask this question in a Catholic forum, but you don’t want us to bring up God? Human beings have a soul; animals do not. Animals were put on earth for man’s benefit, per the Bible. They are a resource and have no other intrinsic value, except as maybe a pet.

If you want to take God out of the explanation, then humans have no soul and a tree is a bug is a rat is a boy. That’s where atheism leads you.
 
Cone said:
SpeakKindly wrote: “What makes a human’s life more valuable that an animal’s, if it’s not speciazation? I’ve been asked this question, and this is the only answer that I can think of without bringing up God (can you provide a better answer)?”

You ask this question in a Catholic forum, but you don’t want us to bring up God? Human beings have a soul; animals do not. Animals were put on earth for man’s benefit, per the Bible. They are a resource and have no other intrinsic value, except as maybe a pet.

If you want to take God out of the explanation, then humans have no soul and a tree is a bug is a rat is a boy. That’s where atheism leads you.
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I do think many animals DO have souls. Dolphins, Chimps, Apes, Orangatans and a lot of dogs for example. They can feel LOVE, PAIN, sympathy and hope.
 
Honestly, Cone, I think the OP’s request is an important one. In our worldview, of course, God is extremely important for the distinction between human and animal. Unfortunately, in order to make this argument in a secular setting (most colleges, for example, or in a public debate where many viewing the debate do not believe in God), one must first prove the existence of God. God cannot be taken as a given in an arena where the mention of His existence is often grounds for dismissing the argument altogether.

Materially, there is very little that separates the human species from other species in the animal kingdom, or for that matter, a tree (or even a bacteria). The base material is the same - lipids, carbohydrates, amino acids, and nucleic acids. Genetically, humans are almost identical to apes. Yet any human can see the huge difference in mental capacity between humans and apes. Though all living organisms can communicate in some fashion, and mammals, birds, and many other vertebrates can communicate vocally, only humans have abstract language. We can conceptualize things in our minds that have never been seen and have not yet been invented.

But, in all seriousness, we as a species should have intense focus on the survival of our own species. Humans, unlike many other animals, are extremely social animals. We are intrinsically linked with all other people for our own survival. I know it’s not a full argument, but I hope it helps you create one.
 
Cone said:
Human beings have a soul; animals do not.
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This is not quite true. Animals do have souls, but they don’t have immortal souls. The word “animal” is in fact derived from the Latin “animae” which means “soul”. Only humans have immortal souls.

Animals are also conscious and sentient creatures (they can feel and can have emotions; ask any pet owner), but they are not capable of having a conscience; they can only behave as programmed via their instict, and trained animals can only behave as they have been programmed by the person who trained them; if an owner trains a dog to harm humans, the sin is on the human and not the dog.

Therefore animals are not capable of moral choices. We may be offended if a wolf kills and eats a cute rabbit, but really we shouldn’t because the wolf is acting exactly as programmed. We should though be offended if a human is cruel to an animal, or kills it simply for sport (unless as part of controlling overpopulation of a herd) because humans are capable of moral choices. On the other hand we should not be offended if the human kills the animal humanely and uses the carcass for food for the greater human good (e.g. extracting medicines, pelts for making leather, etc.) or in self-defense, because God did give us dominion over animals.

Where the animal “rights” groups go wrong is that “animals” do not have rights. To have “rights” one must also have a conscience and be capable of moral choices. Humans do, animals do not. The rabbit does not have a “right” to life because the wolf is programmed to eat it if it finds it. Humans though, have an obligation to treat animals humanely and without cruelty. Any “rights” animals have flow from the human obligation and our moral choices. They aren’t inherent to their being an animal. There is no such thing as an intrinsic “right” for animals, just an obligation of husbanding and treating a resource humanely on the part of humans.
Cone said:
Animals were put on earth for man’s benefit, per the Bible. They are a resource and have no other intrinsic value, except as maybe a pet.
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That’s the biblical metaphor. As a scientist, my view is that animals are part of a very complex ecosystem needed for the world to work as it does and to maintain an environment suitable for humanity. As such they do have great value IMHO. I guess I’m saying exactly the same thing but in a different way.

But indeed you are right, God cannot be taken out of the equation, as the Creator of all things and the distributor of all graces.

As with all things human though, although we were given dominion over animals we often misuse the gifts that God bequeathed us. So often mistreat animals, and we mess with the ecosystem making some species extinct or depleting a precious resource like fish stocks. It’s one of the things God will call us to account for on Judgement Day.
 
I have always had dogs and cats and I can say with all honesty, I do believe these animals know right from wrong, morally that is, its hard to explain, but they can sense alot more than we can and I saw more than a few times, my dog reacted negatively to something immoral…I was a bit surprised the first time but not too surprised, after all, these are just more creations of God, he had to breathe life into them for them to be born.

Im pretty sure other dog owners know what Im talking about here.
 
mikekle said:
I have always had dogs and cats and I can say with all honesty, I do believe these animals know right from wrong, morally that is, its hard to explain, but they can sense alot more than we can and I saw more than a few times, my dog reacted negatively to something immoral…I was a bit surprised the first time but not too surprised, after all, these are just more creations of God, he had to breathe life into them for them to be born.

Im pretty sure other dog owners know what Im talking about here.
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I’m a cat owner, and cats are pure evil 😃

I’m really a dog person, but my wife is a cat person, so we have cats. She forced me to undergo a species change procedure 😃

I have owned a couple of dogs. I do believe that a dog’s “personality” is a combination of factors, but bottom line they often reflect the personality of their owner. They have pretty sharp senses, especially scents and sounds. They can probably sense our own discomfort with a situation and since we are their “alpha dog”, they react accordingly. I’m not convinced that they’re actually making their own moral judgement.

Incidentally do you know the difference between a dog and a cat?

Dog: “Hmm: he pets me, he feeds me, he plays with me, he takes care of me. He must be god”.

Cat: “Hmm: he pets me, he feeds me, he plays with me, he takes care of me. I must be god” 😛
 
Everything that lives has a soul, or it would be dead.

Plants = vegetative souls

Animals = sensitive souls

Mankind = rational souls

For man to live, something has to die.
 
Take God out of the picture and there is no reason. This is where animal “rights” activists come from.
 
Greetings,
Nothing makes a human life more “valuable” than any animal life except for our egotism. It is simply our belief. Many believe god gave man dominion over the earth and therefore rationalize it is ours to do with as we wish. This is why we are slowly destroying the earth and all that live here. Our belief that we are better than or more valuable than any other being is pure speciesism. Beliefs can change-they are not set in stone-are not fact-are not Truth. Blessings to all beings everywhere.
 
(name removed by moderator),
None of the things you’ve listed or mentioned above make humans “more valuable” than animals. They simply mean we’ve evolved differently. We’ve evolved to the point of mass destruction as well as all the good things you mentioned. We’ve evolved to the point of killing unborn humans because we feel they are of no value, they are to be thrown out with the refuse. We fail to see the interconnectedness of all beings.
Simply asking a question about the value of humans versus animals does not make us more valuable.
“We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or what they have-for their usefulness.” (Thomas Merton)
Since we have no imagination or time for being we don’t value that aspect (ability to be) in animals either. We value animals only for how we believe they can be useful to us. Blessings to all beings everywhere.
 
SquallLeonheart said:
I do think many animals DO have souls.
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Every living material creature, by definition, has a soul. The soul is the animative principle of living matter. It is what distinguishes living matter from dead matter.

So yes, everthing from amoebas to humans have souls.

The question is, if their souls are spiritual or material. A spiritual soul, created in the image and likeness of God, is immortal. It does not die.

A material soul ceases when the body dies ( or, more specifically, the body dies when the soul ceases to exist)

St. Thomas Aquinas covered all of this - arabicphilosophyjkh.wordpress.com/category/st-thomas-aquinas-and-the-nature-of-the-soul/

aquinasonline.com/Topics/vegsoul.html
Dolphins, Chimps, Apes, Orangatans and a lot of dogs for example. They can feel LOVE, PAIN, sympathy and hope.
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That is true in that they have sense awareness of such things like pain. Rational elements such as Love ( as opposed to affection) or Hope, are not within the ability of an animal soul.

More properly, they are Theological Virtues that are infused in Baptism.
 
My non-religious answer is that human life not only experiences joy and suffering like animals do, but is concientiously aware of experiencing that joy and suffering.

While humans may have only a linearly more intelligence than certain animals - we have just enough intelligence to be aware of our own place in the world, and that self-awareness leads to exponentially more intricate thoughts than animals can muster.
 
Greetings,
Brendan-Neither of my kids has ever been baptized. Both are married adults with children of their own that have never been baptized. Do they not experience love, hope and any other things attributed to baptism? Or am I completely misunderstanding that part of your post?
Benjohnson-Does having "more intricate thoughts" make us more valuable than animals? Maybe we're just intelligent enough to be a danger to ourselves and others on a global scale? Blessings to all beings everywhere.
 
chataranga said:
Greetings,
Brendan-Neither of my kids has ever been baptized. Both are married adults with children of their own that have never been baptized. Do they not experience love, hope and any other things attributed to baptism? Or am I completely misunderstanding that part of your post?
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How are you defining ‘Love’ or ‘Hope’? As electro-chemical reactions in the brain? Or some other definition.

The Catholic Definition of both of those are first, a Rational encounter with God, who is Love, and secondly as Hope as the Virtue by which we desire our teleological end.

And, for that matter, since we are discussing the value of human life vs. that of animals, how do you define ‘value’? What does it mean for one object\entity to have greater value than another?
 
Greetings to all,
(name removed by moderator)-The fact that we’ve evolved differently is what makes our lives as humans more valuable than the lives of animals? To Who? Certainly not the animal.
I would tend to believe that of the other animals with superior intelligence at least some if not all of them (if we could understand them) would agree that human life was of little value since we feel compelled to destroy what we call home as well as believe we are better than them. This earth we call home doesn’t belong to us we are simply transients passing through.
“In fact, the mere ability…” I don’t understand how an opinion/belief such as this can be construed to be fact.
Sorry about the quote from Thomas Merton. I sometimes find his writings to be very helpful on my spiritual journey. Since I’m not the brightest star in the sky I thought this particular quote would add something positive to the thread. I don’t have anything from spot or jumbo. I do however have a couple of quotes I like from Dr. Suess.
Code: 
 Brendan-How do I define love and hope? I'm not really sure how to answer this. I suppose from an emotional, secular viewpoint. Not from the catholic definition as I didn't know it until now. I will have to meditate on that for quite a while.
 How do I define value? Again I'm not sure how to answer this in all honesty (not the brightest star...)
 Thought provoking/intriguing questions. Certainly good topics for meditation-Thank you. Blessings to all beings everywhere.
/
 
chataranga said:
Greetings,
Nothing makes a human life more “valuable” than any animal life except for our egotism. It is simply our belief. Many believe god gave man dominion over the earth and therefore rationalize it is ours to do with as we wish. This is why we are slowly destroying the earth and all that live here. Our belief that we are better than or more valuable than any other being is pure speciesism. Beliefs can change-they are not set in stone-are not fact-are not Truth. Blessings to all beings everywhere.
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Perhaps you can explain the thoughts of animals regarding the natural world. Hello? They have no understanding. How on earth could you have compassion for animals, plants, etc without understanding and a sense of compassion for them?

In brief: Mankind can ponder, debate, organize and pass laws which protect animals. Can they?
 
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