What Makes Catholicism the Only Church?

[Randy_Carson]

True believers in Christ are all ambassadors. The RCC is very fond of giving the title “father” to it’s priest. If it were a true NT church… the title of “father” would be reserved for God the Father.

Calling Priests Father

From a parable of Jesus
"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ’ Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ "But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ "He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” (Luke 16:19-31)

Did Jesus contradict His own teaching against calling someone “father” by using that very phrase in His own parable? Or have you misunderstood what our Lord meant when he said, “Call no man your father.”? :yup:

From the teaching of Paul
“I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

“I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philemon 10)

“To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Timothy 1:2)

“To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4)

From a Letter of John
“No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4)

Sounds like Paul and John considered themselves spiritual fathers to all these disciples, doesn’t it? And this is from the Word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit, is it not? :yup:

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Church_Militant]

Pope is not mentioned in the bible. However, I do believe the RCC is vividly described in Revelations chapter 17.

So? Neither is Trinity, nor sinner’s prayer, nor altar call, and in fact, the very name Christian was not something that we gave to ourselves, but came from those who were not.

As for Revelation chapter 17, I see no similarity whatever to the Catholic Church in that passage.

1. “Come, I will shew thee the condemnation of the great harlot, who sitteth upon many waters,” The Catholic Church does not sit on any waters that I know of.
2. “With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication; and they who inhabit the earth, have been made drunk with the whine of her whoredom.” There’s no application to the Catholic Church in this verse.
3. “And I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.” No such woman…no names of blasphemy…no seven heads nor ten horns.
4. “4 And the woman was clothed round about with purple and scarlet, and gilt with gold, and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of the abomination and filthiness of her fornication.” Still no woman. The jewels described are not part of any Catholic adornment that I am aware of. “Purple and scarlet…and gold” Purple is a color used within the Catholic Church to call us to remember and contemplate the sufferings of Christ.

Scarlet is a color used within the Catholic Church to recall to mind all those who have paid for their faith with their lives.

Gold trim is used to remind us that “all honor and glory and power and majesty is thine Almighty Father, forever and ever.”

A golden cup? Is that also going to make the golden interior of the Ark of the Covenant an abomination in your interpretation? Our Lord said, “27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.”(Matthew 26)

Would you have the blood of the New Covenant in a cup of styrofoam or plastic?

1. “5 And on her forehead a name was written: A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth.” Babylon is in Iraq, and the early church, including the New Testament writers, often used the name for Jerusalem. Why don’t you follow their faithful lead?
2. “6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.” The Catholic Church is certainly drenched in the blood of the martyrs, there is no doubt of that. But she is drenched in that blood because so many of them were faithful Catholics and shed that holy blood for their most holy faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ.
3. “18 And the woman which thou sawest, is the great city, which hath kingdom over the kings of the earth.” The Catholic Church has no such position. If I had to pick out a modern city that fills this bill, I might more likely believe that it was fulfilled in New York City. A place “which hath kingdom over the kings of the earth.” in so many way it’s hard to imagine.

Your Whore of Babylon anti-Catholic rhetorical propaganda has been refuted many times and so I’ll link two excellent articles that do so again.

The Whore of Babylon.
Hunting the Whore of Babylon.

Here are links to many more.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Church_Militant]

Your pope exists whether want to believe it or not. He’s your “holy father”. And, I’m not ignoring your questions…you just don’t like my answers.

You love your propaganda don’t you?

So we actually have a bishop in authority over us as the Word of God teaches that we should and even as there was in the early church.

No…I don’t like your rhetoric. It’s baseless and unsupported propaganda that has been heard by Catholics for about 500 years longer than it should have been if those who preached it were half as righteous as they purported themselves to be instead of the rebellious and divisive men preaching another gospel to people having itching ears.

 

[Church_Militant]

They are not dishonest just because you’ve been deceived into believing that lie. The church was NEVER built on Peter but Peter’s confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Petros and Petra are differences which you refuse to believe.

That’s not what the Holy Spirit used. He used “petros” not kepha. If you have a problem with it… take it up with God.

Really? I beg to differ…John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looking upon him, said: Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter. Look at all the other places where the Aramaic name was used. I thought a big bad Bible only “believers” like you would know that.

Then why does the RCC insist on giving the title of “father” to the priests? Jesus said to His true followers not to give that title to anyone.

That’s not what the Word of God actually says. Look at the context.

Yes, and many are deceived.

Indeed they are. By Bible quoting, anti-Catholics who twist the Word of God and ignore any passages that sound “too Catholic”, even when they plainly support the Catholic Church’s teachings.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

…and this is the only verse that applies to salvation in all of the Word of God. Let’s be sure to include Matthew 25:31-46, okay? Let’s be sure to include Acts 2:38: And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39: For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.” and then Acts 22:16: And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ And finally, but not least. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. " (John 14:15)

True believers in Christ are all ambassadors. The RCC is very fond of giving the title “father” to it’s priest. If it were a true NT church… the title of “father” would be reserved for God the Father.

2Cr 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Total non-sequitur…

So?! It’s what you BELIEVE in your heart to be true that brings you into righteousness with God. That is why repentance is so important. You must turn away from sin.Turn to Jesus in Faith and repent of your sins.

No! Really? Well bless my soul! I hear this all the time right here in the Catholic Church!:clapping: :clapping: :extrahappy: :dancing:

Get out of the confession to the priest and penance routine. It does nothing for you. You must turn away from your sins altogether.

Here you have totally departed from the Word of God into another gospel.

John 20:21: Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23: If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (Emphasis mine)

You have no authority to ordain anyone in apostolic succession who can share in this scriptural (and sacramental) ministry.

1st John 1:9 says, "9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. " and James 5:14-16 says, 14: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15: and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16: Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. (Emphasis mine again). Do you follow these scriptural tenets? No? Then by what authority do you “6: … for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
7: You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
8: `This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
9: in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.”

 

[Church_Militant]

Are you sure you’re quoting that right?

Phm 1:10
I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:

Gee…most normal males who beget someone are their father…:ehh:

 

[Church_Militant]

That’s what your religion wants you to believe.

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins

.

Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luk 24:47 **And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. **Selective verses taken out of context…especially of a great deal of other passages that also speak of what the gospel entails. For instance:
Matthew 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

1. Disciple them.
2. Baptize them “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.
3. Teach them “to observe all that I have commanded you;”

(Is baptism necessary for salvation in your beliefs? It is according to Our Lord Jesus Christ. See also Acts 2:38-39 and 22:16)

Then of course there is Matthew 25:31-46, which gives us a very serious context for our judgment.

 

[believers]

Silliness.

The Bishop of Rome is called “pope”, but he remains a Bishop.

As you know, Bishops ARE mentioned in the NT.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

It is silliness. How many people refer to him as Bishop of Rome? Seriously, out of the billion plus members in the RCC. What percentage only know him as pope? Of my 36 years in the RCC… I don’t ever remember anyone calling him the “Bishop of Rome”.

 

[believers]

Selective verses taken out of context…especially of a great deal of other passages that also speak of what the gospel entails. For instance:
Matthew 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

1. Disciple them.
2. Baptize them “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.
3. Teach them “to observe all that I have commanded you;”

(Is baptism necessary for salvation in your beliefs? It is according to Our Lord Jesus Christ. See also Acts 2:38-39 and 22:16)

Then of course there is Matthew 25:31-46, which gives us a very serious context for our judgment.

Taken out of Context? Only because it contradicts your religion. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes AFTER you believe and repent. So… REPENT and be baptized.

Mat 9:13
But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar 2:17
When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luk 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[believers]

Gee…most normal males who beget someone are their father…:ehh:

To add anything to the Word of God is blasphemy.

 

[believers]

You love your propaganda don’t you?

So we actually have a bishop in authority over us as the Word of God teaches that we should and even as there was in the early church.

No…I don’t like your rhetoric. It’s baseless and unsupported propaganda that has been heard by Catholics for about 500 years longer than it should have been if those who preached it were half as righteous as they purported themselves to be instead of the rebellious and divisive men preaching another gospel to people having itching ears.

Yes… you have a bishop over you and a pope over them. That’s not what the Word of God teaches.

A true New Testament church of God would NEVER give the title of “father” to any of it’s preachers. However, the RCC has no problem giving the title of “father” to it’s priests. A true NT church of God reserves the title of Father for God himself.

 

[joshua_b]

It is silliness. How many people refer to him as Bishop of Rome? Seriously, out of the billion plus members in the RCC. What percentage only know him as pope? Of my 36 years in the RCC… I don’t ever remember anyone calling him the “Bishop of Rome”.

Your assertion is irrelevant. When we learned about Church heierarchy in my 7th grade religion class, we learned that the Pope is (technically speaking) nothing more than the Bishop of Rome. What he is called by whatever percentage of whatever people does not negate his true position in any way.

Yes the Bishop of Rome is the figurehead for the entire Catholic Church (Eastern Rites included), but he is still the Bishop of Rome. Saying you spent 36 years in the Catholic Church and didn’t even learn something so basic tells me your problems with the Catholic Church are out of pure ignorance and you know little to nothing of what you speak.

 

[Randy_Carson]

It is silliness. How many people refer to him as Bishop of Rome? Seriously, out of the billion plus members in the RCC. What percentage only know him as pope? Of my 36 years in the RCC… I don’t ever remember anyone calling him the “Bishop of Rome”.

This is an assertion borne of prejudice.

All Catholics knowledgeable Catholic know the Pope as the Bishop of Rome, the Vicar of Christ, the Holy Father, etc.

These titles are used interchangeably but he would not even be the Pope if he were not the Bishop of Rome.

He must be the one IN ORDER TO BE the other.

You know, I’m beginning to understand WHY you left the Catholic Church…you really didn’t know much about it.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Taken out of Context? Only because it contradicts your religion. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes AFTER you believe and repent. So… REPENT and be baptized.

Mat 9:13
But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar 2:17
When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luk 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

ChurchMilitant did not mention the Holy Spirit in the passage you quoted.

 

[Randy_Carson]

To add anything to the Word of God is blasphemy.

ChurchMilitant has not added to the Word of God.

He has illustrated that Paul viewed himself as a “spritual father” to Timothy and Onesiphorus.

It is you who have added a literalist meaning to the text.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes… you have a bishop over you and a pope over them. That’s not what the Word of God teaches.

A true New Testament church of God would NEVER give the title of “father” to any of it’s preachers. However, the RCC has no problem giving the title of “father” to it’s priests. A true NT church of God reserves the title of Father for God himself.

I clarified this for you in post #140.

From the Word of God, of course.

 

[Ignatius]

Set aside your animosity toward the Roman Catholic Church for just a moment. . .

Hi Randy. I feel the need to not this once again.
There is a lot more the the Catholic Church than the Roman Rite. The Catholic Church is a communion of many Sui Juris Churches, the Roman Rite is only one of them. Please folks, if we are refering to the entire Catholic Church, let’s use the correct term, The Catholic Church. Thank you.

Grace and peace to you.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi Randy. I feel the need to not this once again.
There is a lot more the the Catholic Church than the Roman Rite. The Catholic Church is a communion of many Sui Juris Churches, the Roman Rite is only one of them. Please folks, if we are refering to the entire Catholic Church, let’s use the correct term, The Catholic Church. Thank you.

Grace and peace to you.

Your brother in Christ.

Two thoughts:

1. The term “Roman Catholic” in only 57 of my 2500 posts. The lion’s share of these occurences are instances when I have quoted Protestants (such as RT France) who use the term.

1. I chose to use the term “Roman Catholic” (which I personally find distasteful) in this particular instance because I felt it highlighted the prejudice held by those who are antagonistic toward what they view as the “Romish” church.

Sorry to have offended. :tiphat:

 

[joshua_b]

A true New Testament church of God would NEVER give the title of “father” to any of it’s preachers. However, the RCC has no problem giving the title of “father” to it’s priests. A true NT church of God reserves the title of Father for God himself.

Paul saw fit to give the title to himself, so is the church Paul established not "true New Testament church of God " ?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Jesus Christ founded the Church. It has remained so since that time. That’s why. End of story.

 

[guanophore]

That’s not how Jesus said to join His “called out people” from sinners. He said believe and repent. Belief on Jesus and repentance separates us unto the true church. Jesus said He came not to…

Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

RCIA includes repentance and faith formation. It also includes baptism, which replaces circumcision as an initiatin rite into the New Covenant. Through baptism, we are united with Christ, and made part of His body.

It is bad.

Pro 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Understanding and logic are not bad, believers. One can use one’s mind in conjunction with the heart. One should not trust their knowledge INSTEAD of their faith, but when God calls us to love him with all the heart, mind, soul and strength He means the understanding also.

History books are not accurate. They were written by man. The Word of God says let God be true and every man a liar. If you want to trust in history books then you do so at your own risk. The only truth is the Word of God. You guys seem to trust and quote more ECFs like it’s the Gospel.

This is quite a sweeping statement to make, believers, and frankly, it sounds like something an uneducated person would make. It also seems like you do not understand the difference between “true” and “inspired”. There are many things written that are true that are not in the bible. It is good that you are clinging to the inspired word of God, but it is not necessary to throw out all the other books.

The RCC does not call sinners to repentance. The RCC calls people to confession and penance. That’s not the same thing as turning away from your sins altogether. The message of repentance is so watered down in the RCC that it seems be non-existent.

It is sad that you did not hear this call from Catholics. However, it is there. You are wrong about confession and penance, it is the same thing. The message is not watered, but if you got a bad dose of it, that is regrettable.

I find myself wondering what you were taught about confession and penance. Have you ever read a document on preparation for confession? It is called an “examination of conscience” and is very thorough.