What makes God different from a deadbeat dad?

[Bohm_Bawerk]

This **isn’t **a thread intended to cause offence or anything, but in all seriousness, what makes God different from a deadbeat dad? A deadbeat dad absconds from his responsibilities, namely, to supply for the household, and to a lesser extent, to be a good husband. A deadbeat dad ignores the cries of his children; he ignores the pleas of his wife; he appears non-existent when in fact he is existent. A deadbeat dad is only interested in himself.

Let’s examine God. Catholic theology states that God is “self-sufficient”, and if He really wanted to, He would not have to take care of His own creation because He is independent of and from everything. But this theological label seems like a mask more than anything. If God created us, it would seem that He should also take care of us. If He is our father, then a consequential role would be to take care of His children. Yet we find that is not the case. Millions die from illnesses, murder etc, every day. God appoints leaders who openly support abortion, war, and other morally egregious philosophies. God lets the devil out on the loose. God remains reticent for the large majority of the population…it is no wonder when the Son of Man returns, there will be *no *faith on Earth! He appears non-existent, and some would even say He is non-existent.

What makes God any different from a deadbeat dad? And if you are to justify the aforementioned characteristics of God, why do you use a different form of judgement on Earthly deadbeat dads?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[PerfectTiming]

Bohm Bawerk:

God appoints leaders who openly support abortion, war, and other morally egregious philosophies.

God doesn’t appoint those leaders. We do. God’s not a puppet-master.
Bohm Bawerk:

Millions die from illnesses, murder etc, every day.

Murder is the same as above - God doesn’t do that, people do. Free will, plain and simple.
Bohm Bawerk:

A deadbeat dad ignores the cries of his children; he ignores the pleas of his wife; he appears non-existent when in fact he is existent.

God does not ignore the cries of His children. If we ask for his help, He gives it. He does not ignore the pleas of His church, He supports it and protects it. He does not appear non-existent, He is clearly apparent.

 

[Samson01]

The story of the butterfly

A man found a cocoon of a butterfly.
One day a small opening appeared.
He sat and watched the butterfly for several hours
as it struggled to squeeze its body through the tiny hole.
Then it stopped, as if it couldn’t go further.

So the man decided to help the butterfly.
He took a pair of scissors and
snipped off the remaining bits of cocoon.
The butterfly emerged easily but
it had a swollen body and shriveled wings.

The man continued to watch it,
expecting that any minute the wings would enlarge
and expand enough to support the body,
Neither happened!
In fact the butterfly spent the rest of its life
crawling around.
It was never able to fly.

What the man in his kindness
and haste did not understand:
The restricting cocoon and the struggle
required by the butterfly to get through the opening
was a way of forcing the fluid from the body
into the wings so that it would be ready
for flight once that was achieved.

Sometimes struggles are exactly
what we need in our lives.
Going through life with no obstacles would cripple us.
We will not be as strong as we could have been
and we would never fly.

 

[crystal_waters]

God doesn’t appoint those leaders. We do. God’s not a puppet-master.

Murder is the same as above - God doesn’t do that, people do. Free will, plain and simple.

God does not ignore the cries of His children. If we ask for his help, He gives it. He does not ignore the pleas of His church, He supports it and protects it. He does not appear non-existent, He is clearly apparent.

well put:thumbsup:

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

God doesn’t appoint those leaders. We do. God’s not a puppet-master.

Several references in the Old Testament would suggest otherwise:

“but it is God who executes judgment,
putting down one and lifting up another.” (Psalm 75:7)

"and none can stay his hand
or say to him, “What have you done?” (Daniel 4:35)

“He changes times and seasons;
he removes kings and sets up kings;” (Daniel 2:21)

Murder is the same as above - God doesn’t do that, people do. Free will, plain and simple.

So if an earthly father allowed his children to stay out at midnight, find his children killed or abducted, and then responded, “Ahhh geez, I guess the murderer just used his free will. Let’s rejoice”, would you find that a satisfactory answer? Or would you criticize the father for his apparent apathy? What makes God any different?

God does not ignore the cries of His children. If we ask for his help, He gives it. He does not ignore the pleas of His church, He supports it and protects it. He does not appear non-existent, He is clearly apparent.

I am living proof that this is not true at all. And I know with absolute certainty that I’m not the only one.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

The story of the butterfly

A man found a cocoon of a butterfly.
One day a small opening appeared.
He sat and watched the butterfly for several hours
as it struggled to squeeze its body through the tiny hole.
Then it stopped, as if it couldn’t go further.

So the man decided to help the butterfly.
He took a pair of scissors and
snipped off the remaining bits of cocoon.
The butterfly emerged easily but
it had a swollen body and shriveled wings.

The man continued to watch it,
expecting that any minute the wings would enlarge
and expand enough to support the body,
Neither happened!
In fact the butterfly spent the rest of its life
crawling around.
It was never able to fly.

What the man in his kindness
and haste did not understand:
The restricting cocoon and the struggle
required by the butterfly to get through the opening
was a way of forcing the fluid from the body
into the wings so that it would be ready
for flight once that was achieved.

Sometimes struggles are exactly
what we need in our lives.
Going through life with no obstacles would cripple us.
We will not be as strong as we could have been
and we would never fly.

The difference between this analogy (although beautifully written…) and everyday life is that on the one hand, this analogy talks about a biological necessity. Butterflies can’t exist without the special fluid you speak of. To use an exact logical equivalent, that’s like a human living without kidneys. This analogy commits a logical fallacy by conflating two entirely different things together. Humans can live without struggle, indeed, no where in our biological makeup does it say that we need to struggle to survive…just look at the Royal Family.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Samson01]

The difference between this analogy (although beautifully written…) and everyday life is that on the one hand, this analogy talks about a biological necessity. Butterflies can’t exist without the special fluid you speak. To use an exact logical equivalent, that’s like a human living without kidneys. Humans can live without struggle…just look at the Royal Family.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

LOL, but this life is the cocoon.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

LOL, but this life is the cocoon.

Yes, but humans do not need any special fluid. We do not need to struggle. Imagine owning an ant farm and then putting an anteater inside the ant farm. Does that make the ants living experience any more worthwhile…any more philosophically picturesque? No. It only means that now the ants have something to fear, namely, an anteater. But on an ever bigger scope, what does that say about the one who keeps the ant farm…the one who put an anteater there, and seems, in an almost schadenfreude manner, to enjoy the debacle of it all?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Samson01]

Didn’t we, humans, invite the anteater in? Stupid ants!

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Didn’t we, humans, invite the anteater in? Stupid ants!

And wouldn’t God help those who called upon His name to be delivered from the anteater? But of course, only to be met with a paradoxically serene, yet worrying, surrounding consumed with silence.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Samson01]

And wouldn’t God help those who called upon His name to be delivered from the anteater? But of course, only to be met with a paradoxically serene, yet worrying, surrounding consumed with silence.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

That’s a tough one. I was in the snoot of the ardvark once, nearly dead. Maybe the other ants can help out, gaithering their strength as well before the big man steps in and sweeps the table clean.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

That’s a tough one. I was in the snoot of the ardvark once, nearly dead. Maybe the other ants can help out, gaithering their strength as well before the big man steps in and sweeps the table clean.

In other words, for fellow ants to help carry on with the delusion that the big man is benevolent and cares about their welfare?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Okay.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Samson01]

Maybe. Brother , I know that darkness isn’t fun…BTDT, but I know He is true to His promise. Maybe your faith is stronger then you think, therefore intercession not really needed at this time.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Maybe. Brother , I know that darkness isn’t fun…BTDT, but I know He is true to His promise. Maybe your faith is stronger then you think, therefore intercession not really needed at this time.

When a trouble plagues you for over the course of 3 years, and you know intuitively that it is due to God even when you were previously an Atheist, believe me, you haven’t got a slight idea of how much it kills you inside .

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[brotherjoe]

Eugen:

You are correct that God most certainly appears not to exist. Each of us has one life and a choice on how to live. Shall we live as though the entire Universe is an accident and there is no moral right or wrong? Then on what basis can we complain about injustice? Or shall we live as though the Universe was created by Love? If so, we must admit that we are simply unqualified to judge God but we can surely hope for ultimate restoration. Our choice.

 

[Samson01]

When a trouble plagues you for over the course of 3 years, and you know intuitively that it is due to God even when you were previously an Atheist, believe me, you haven’t got a slight idea of how much it kills you inside .

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

Maybe so. I’m sorry for your troubles.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Eugen:

You are correct that God most certainly appears not to exist. Each of us has one life and a choice on how to live. Shall we live as though the entire Universe is an accident and there is no moral right or wrong? Then on what basis can we complain about injustice? Or shall we live as though the Universe was created by Love? If so, we must admit that we are simply unqualified to judge God but we can surely hope for ultimate restoration. Our choice.

My own personal beliefs is that everyone should try to be as good as they possibly can be…to put a smile on someone else’s face who is less fortunate. I honestly doubt that God exists, or that even if He did exist, He isn’t as “all-powerful” as He is portrayed in the Bible (particularly the Old Testament). Hence the reason why I came to the conclusion that mainstream Catholic theology only points to God as being a deadbeat dad…

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[brotherjoe]

I honestly doubt that God exists, or that even if He did exist, He isn’t as “all-powerful” as He is portrayed in the Bible (particularly the Old Testament). Hence the reason why I came to the conclusion that mainstream Catholic theology only points to God as being a deadbeat dad…

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

What is your take on miracles. I probably would not believe, except that I have seen, heard of and read about too many miracles not to believe. And I truly do not wish to believe that existance is without purpose. I wrote a short skit that may interest you at

scribd.com/doc/11558079/The-First-Creation-Debate

Joe

 

[PerfectTiming]

Several references in the Old Testament would suggest otherwise:

“but it is God who executes judgment,
putting down one and lifting up another.” (Psalm 75:7)

“He changes times and seasons;
he removes kings and sets up kings;” (Daniel 2:21)

Old Testament kings were appointed by God through His prophets. But that is a completely different context to modern governance, God does not appoint our leaders. As I said before, we do.
And again, God executed judgement through those kings and judges and prophets and He will deliver our final judgement.

So if an earthly father allowed his children to stay out at midnight, find his children killed or abducted, and then responded, “Ahhh geez, I guess the murderer just used his free will. Let’s rejoice”, would you find that a satisfactory answer? Or would you criticize the father for his apparent apathy? What makes God any different?

Your logic is massively flawed. Free will doesn’t make evil right, that’s just ridiculous. God gives us free will out of love: if we had no free will and we just puppets and had no control over our actions then what would be the point? That’s not love. God’s love means He shows us the right path but doesn’t force us to take it. God isn’t apathetic to evil, it upsets Him because He does not want His children to suffer.

When a trouble plagues you for over the course of 3 years, and you know intuitively that it is due to God even when you were previously an Atheist, believe me, you haven’t got a slight idea of how much it kills you inside.

Why blame God? Why blame anyone?