What Makes SSPX schismatic?

[lak611]

The only reason why there are so many SSPX threads obviously is because most traditional Catholics have been raised by SSPX priest. Those who claim to be traditional, does not mean that you have a love for the Latin mass only, but for traditional doctrine too. A lot of people in this thread claim to be traditional but it is useless if everything you beleive is what St. Pope Pius X said and wrote against the Modernist and excomunicated so many people in the Vatican that were professors because of it. But now this professors are venerated and upheld as “greatest theologians of our time”. The humbled shall be exalthet and the Exalted shall be humbled, I think this really goes for SSPX haters. One day you will see that it was truly necessary and the Church will recognize what they did was good, just like with St. Athanasius. Dont get me wrong there are a few SSPX priest that tend towards Sedevantism and have hostilities towards Vatican II official’s but its only a few not the majority and I dont agree at all with those priest. Been raised SSPX and I will soon be going with a traditional Carmelite Monastery in “communion” with Rome. I think I have the SSPX to thank for, for allowing the mass to continue. There are WAY WAY too few indult masses. It is almost ridiculous compared to the SSPX and not to forget that all the indult masses were by people who left the SSPX, so thanks to their seminarian training we have the priest that give our indult masses. That is a big shout out for all you TLM lovers out there!

Congratulations on your vocation! :extrahappy: God bless you.

 

[Walking_Home]

So start a thread stating that there is no schism with the Orthodox and Protestants are not seriously deficit in their ecclesiology. I’m there.

Point is, no one in the Traditional Forum would assert such things because they know they aren’t true. BUT…we get all sorts of misinformation about the SSPX not being schismatic, how we can go to their Masses with the Holy See’s blessing, etc., etc. None that’s any truer than saying that the Orthodox and Protestants do not have deficits to one degree or another.

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I would say it would be better —to just let Rome and the SSPX come to terms. It is between them --and all this bias against the SSPX only serves to muddy the waters and is no help to Rome.

I am also saying-- offer the SSPX the same courtesy and consideration you offer the Orthodox. If you can be courteous and considerate with the non Catholic–you could show the same for the SSPX --who are.

 

[BobP123]

I second lak (laura).

And to those forever bashing any SSPX priest, wait till you need one!

 

[TuEsPetrus]

Congratulations on your vocation! :extrahappy: God bless you.

:knight2:
Thank you and please pray for me all of you sincerely :tiphat: . Pray that I may have the strength to become a saintly monk :getholy: and that I may have the grace to overcome everything for God’s love and sake. In the name of Charity I ask for your prayers .
United in Christ
Pax Tecum
Caritas (St. Francis of Paola). :hug3:

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I second lak (laura).

And to those forever bashing any SSPX priest, wait till you need one!

Again, demonstrate the bashing?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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I would say it would be better —to just let Rome and the SSPX come to terms. It is between them --and all this bias against the SSPX only serves to muddy the waters and is no help to Rome.

I am also saying-- offer the SSPX the same courtesy and consideration you offer the Orthodox. If you can be courteous and considerate with the non Catholic–you could show the same for the SSPX --who are.

It isn’t muddying the waters when someone come on and asks about the SSPX to repeat what Rome, the Holy See, has officially said. OFFICIALLY.

And I’ve given the SSPX the same courtesy I would the Orthodox. It goes back to the pig vs. cow thing.

 

[lak611]

:knight2:
Thank you and please pray for me all of you sincerely :tiphat: . Pray that I may have the strength to become a saintly monk :getholy: and that I may have the grace to overcome everything for God’s love and sake. In the name of Charity I ask for your prayers .
United in Christ
Pax Tecum
Caritas (St. Francis of Paola). :hug3:

I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[BobP123]

we get all sorts of misinformation about the SSPX not being schismatic,

So these are all lies?

“CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: Unfortunately Monsignor Lefebvre went ahead with the consecration and hence the situation of separation came about, even if it was not a formal schism.”

“Later in the March 17 interview, Cardinal Castrillón affirmed once again publicly, “The Fraternity of St. Pius X is not a consolidated schism per se, but its history has included some schismatic actions…””
ecclesiacatholica.blogspot.co…in-latino.html

“We are not facing a heresy. One cannot say in correct, exact, precise terms that there is a schism [here]. There is a schismatic attitude in the consecration of bishops without a pontifical mandate. They are inside the Church; there is only lacking a full, a more perfect — as was said in the meeting with Msgr. Fellay — a fuller communion, because there is communion”
qien.free.fr/2005/200511/20051113_hoyos_eng.htm

“We take care of those who did not wish to follow Archbishop Lefebvre – which is not exactly a schism [sic].”
qien.free.fr/2007/200702/20070204_rorate.htm

LETTER OF THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CHRISTIAN UNITY
Under signature of Edward I. Cardinal Cassidy, President (May 3,1994)

    "The situation of the members of this Society [SSPX] is
    an **internal matter of the Catholic Church**.  The Society
    is not another Church or Ecclesial Community in the
    meaning used in the Directory.  Of course, the Mass
    and Sacraments administered by the priests of the
    Society are valid.  The bishops are validly ... consecrated."

Can we leave it as “internal”? In other words, can we mind our own business?

 

[Ad_Deum]

Does the Vatican consider them schismatics?
I believe they are not schismatics, but the reason why some think they are schismatics is because of what they hear or read from anti-Catholics.
SSPV I believe are conclavists.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo

 

[TuEsPetrus]

Very well said Bob, gogoog! Leave it for the church decide while they give us our TLM, then we wont be fighting anymore. Only reason why people care is because people want the TLM. If not they would not have so much support.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

So these are all lies?

Why put the worst spin on it? Could it be that he’s simply mistaken? And couldn’t “not exactly” be equally well interpreted as “not exactly NOT?”

Cardinal Kaspar runs around the world saying all sorts of unusual things. A whole hand of cardinals does not trump a single pope. All we can objectively say is what the Pope said in Ecclesia Dei: The Archbishop and bishops are excommunicate, the priests are suspended ad divinis (and thus have no faculties) and the faithful are warned against the grave sin of schism by association. Maybe that will change, maybe the Holy Father will reverse it. Until then, the only objective truth we can count on is what the proper and legitimate authority has said. Which is why none of this is bashing.

 

[TuEsPetrus]

What you dont understand is the Pope said that 1988, we are 2007. As the modernist say: “Get with the times man, get with the program 1988 is old stuff man =-).”

 

[TuEsPetrus]

Also consider the failing health of the Pope for many years so you need to give this new Pope some time to make the right changes, rather then just stick to a statement that was made the very same day in response to the Ordinations of the Bishops w/o the Papal mandate. So a lot of this Cardinals speak for the Church at teh “present” moment rather then a statement that was made almost 20 years ago.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

What you dont understand is the Pope said that 1988, we are 2007. As the modernist say: “Get with the times man, get with the program 1988 is old stuff man =-).”

Sorry, I’m not a modernist. Until Pope Benedict (see, I’m filled with hope, I’m sure it will be Pope Benedict that does it and not some latter pope) reverses it, Ecclesia Dei stands.

 

[Walking_Home]

It isn’t muddying the waters when someone come on and asks about the SSPX to repeat what Rome, the Holy See, has officially said. OFFICIALLY.

And I’ve given the SSPX the same courtesy I would the Orthodox. It goes back to the pig vs. cow thing.

Quote=JKirkLVNV
Archbishop and bishops excommunicated themselves, how the priests are suspended ad divinis, and how the faithful are warned against association with the SSPX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2745443#post2745443
Quote=JKirkLVNV
Originally Posted by Fr Ambrose
Princess Alice (Andrew), Philip’s mother and a bit of an eccentric, became an Orthodox nun (some say as reparation for her son’s apostasy to Anglicanism.) She spent the last years of her life at Buckingham Palace. An Orthodox chapel was created in the Palace but it was dismantled after her death.

Bless, Father, and thank you for the information.

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Really --JKirKLVNV—you give the SSPX the same courtesy you give the Orthodox. Your cries of suspended priests and warning against associating with the SSPX—and then --there you are–making nice with Orthodox Fr. Ambrose. Hopefully --if at some pt. you do encounter an SSPX priest—your bias won’t be so over-powering that you will not show him the respect you gave to Fr. Ambrose.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Quote=JKirkLVNV
Archbishop and bishops excommunicated themselves, how the priests are suspended ad divinis, and how the faithful are warned against association with the SSPX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2745443#post2745443
Quote=JKirkLVNV
Originally Posted by Fr Ambrose
Princess Alice (Andrew), Philip’s mother and a bit of an eccentric, became an Orthodox nun (some say as reparation for her son’s apostasy to Anglicanism.) She spent the last years of her life at Buckingham Palace. An Orthodox chapel was created in the Palace but it was dismantled after her death.

Bless, Father, and thank you for the information.

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Really --JKirKLVNV—you give the SSPX the same courtesy you give the Orthodox. Your cries of suspended priests and warning against associating with the SSPX—and then --there you are–making nice with Orthodox Fr. Ambrose. Hopefully --if at some pt. you do encounter an SSPX priest—your bias won’t be so over-powering that you will not show him the respect you gave to Fr. Ambrose.

I’m touched you’re so fond of me as to keep tabs on me. I’d be as respectful to an SSPX priest as I was to Fr. Ambrose and as I am to the Baptist pastor of my youth. But I’d still tell the truth: The SSPX, the Orthodox, or the Protestants. Besides, no SSPX priest has spoken to me directly. Set up a confab, WalkingHome, I’ll shine my shoes and I won’t spit.

 

[Walking_Home]

I’m touched you’re so fond of me as to keep tabs on me. I’d be as respectful to an SSPX priest as I was to Fr. Ambrose and as I am to the Baptist pastor of my youth. But I’d still tell the truth: The SSPX, the Orthodox, or the Protestants. Besides, no SSPX priest has spoken to me directly. Set up a confab, WalkingHome, I’ll shine my shoes and I won’t spit.

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I am glad you are “touched”----but your coming in out of the wood work and zeroing in on threads with just a mention of the SSPX --" to tell the truth"—does show a side of you --which is reflective that you are carrying a bias—whether you see this in yourself or not.

 

[bear06]

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I would say it would be better —to just let Rome and the SSPX come to terms. It is between them --and all this bias against the SSPX only serves to muddy the waters and is no help to Rome.

I am also saying-- offer the SSPX the same courtesy and consideration you offer the Orthodox. If you can be courteous and considerate with the non Catholic–you could show the same for the SSPX --who are.

And we’ll just be silent on the dissenters on the other side like Cardinal Mahoney, Greeley, etc. Sorry. Ain’t going to happen. Like I said, if nobody brings them up, I won’t discuss it. Of course, that ain’t going to happen either and thus the thread continute…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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I am glad you are “touched”----but your coming in out of the wood work and zeroing in on threads with just a mention of the SSPX --" to tell the truth"—does show a side of you --which is reflective that you are carrying a bias—whether you see this in yourself or not.

Of COURSE, I have a bias! I have a bias because I’m a Catholic. I have a bias because I like Mexican food. I have a bias because I drink Diet Coke and smoke Marboral Light 100’s. I simply haven’t bashed anyone.

And it’s like Bear said: if the threads about how everything is hunky-dory with SSPX were to stop, we’d shut up, too. See what you can do about that.

 

[Walking_Home]

And we’ll just be silent on the dissenters on the other side like Cardinal Mahoney, Greeley, etc. Sorry. Ain’t going to happen. Like I said, if nobody brings them up, I won’t discuss it. Of course, that ain’t going to happen either and thus the thread continute…

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As I said to JKirk—cross your eyes if it makes you feel better. Card. Mahoney and what he is responsible for, Greely, etc–do not compare to the SSPX.