What makes tradition tradition

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I have read that the Catholic Church sees doctrine as being revealed through Sacred Scripture, tradition, and the magisterium. What constitutes tradition? I think it is the past people apart of the church and how they interpreted the scripture so and practiced them, but how is it determined which people made up tradition? Say all but one church father believed X. Is that tradition or not since it isn’t unanimous. Thanks

GOD bless
 
I think the question is “what makes SACRED Tradition” (as opposed to traditions, small t). There were lots of traditions in the first few centuries, just as there were lots of scriptures. The Magisterium (with (name removed by moderator)ut from non-unanimous scholars, and the non unanimous Christian communities at prayer) examined the possible scriptures, and deemed 27 books to be the New Testament. They also examined the many Christian traditions, and deemed some of them to be Sacred Tradition.

That does not mean all of the other scriptures and traditions were false, though some of both definitely were. Many fall into the range of plausible, or perhaps compatible with revealed truth. But one agent had to make the final call for both; Catholic believed the Magisterium was/is guided by God in that matter.

It was the Magisterium that deemed, yes, Sacred Tradition will have a role in guiding the Church, but not replace scripture. Without being “canonized” in the first place, it wouldn’t matter what was in Tradition, just as it does not really matter now what was in the Gnostic gospels.
 
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Tanks For the explanation! So with the example of the immaculate conception it was dogmatically defined by the Catholic Church so you know it is true but what about things that are not. Is there a way of telling if papal infallibility or the immaculate conception Ian tried wothout a dogmatic definition? Essentially, does the magisterium determine what is sacred tradition (or what was)? Thanks and GOD bless!
 
tradition is just something we do…over and over again.
Tradition (upper case), in Catholicism, is part of the deposit of faith, handed down from the Apostles, rather than something we just perpetuate without it being handed down from those Holy Ones.
 
Sorry i should’ve been been clearer. By “things that are not” i mean anything like what the immaculate conception was before 1950 (still debatable).
 
Yes, and dogma can grow out of sacred tradition, dogma doesn’t suddenly appear out of nowhere.

A more modern example of sacred tradition would, I would think, be the accounts of the appearances of Our Lady (and the angel) at Fatima and the secrets of Fatima. We are not bound to believe them, but they are commonly believed throughout the Church and have the support of the Church hierarchy.

By the way, I love reading your posts Brittany, you show so much insight. Hopefully you will be part of the Church before too long.
 
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Yes, that’s a key point of Tradition – how Scripture is interpreted. The Roman Catholic Church has a defined canon of Scripture (which books belong) but the Orthodox Church just accepts books from the past, without any pronouncements about an official canon. I think the difference here is that the Orthodox don’t recognize a central or group authority to declare an official canon of scripture - so the difference is a big deal.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Yes, and dogma can grow out of sacred tradition, dogma doesn’t suddenly appear out of nowhere.

A more modern example of sacred tradition would, I would think, be the accounts of the appearances of Our Lady (and the angel) at Fatima and the secrets of Fatima. We are not bound to believe them, but they are commonly believed throughout the Church and have the support of the Church hierarchy.
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The accounts of Our Lady of Fatima would be part of approved private revelation, thus not in themselves part of public revelation, which Tradition includes. For instance they would not be included in the Catechism, which is about public revelation - Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium. Sacred Tradition is certainly reinforced by approved private revelation, but it does not include it.

Also, scripture, Tradition (capital T) and the Magisterium balance each other out, they should be seen as working in tandem. Re: papal infallibility, it does not mean “The pope will always speak the Truth”. Sometimes a given pope might not know the answer to a given question. Don’t think of infallibility as a steering wheel, taking you wherever you need to go; think of it as a brake.

Perhaps some popes wanted to define something, but they were not “allowed” to do so by God.
 
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Brittany said:
We simply don’t know until the Pope dogmatically defines it as truth or condemns it as heresy. Until either of those happen, we are free to believe it or not.
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Ancient formula: “In the essentials, unity; in doubtful areas, liberty; in all things, charity.”

“doubtful” means areas that are, at present, unclear, not what we mean now by “dubious”
 
commenter said:
The accounts of Our Lady of Fatima would be part of approved private revelation, thus not in themselves part of public revelation, which Tradition includes. For instance they would not be included in the Catechism, which is about public revelation - Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium. Sacred Tradition is certainly reinforced by approved private revelation, but it does not include it.
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Does tradition not include widely held beliefs among the Catholic faithful, that have been longstanding, do not in any way contradict Catholic teaching, but are not yet deemed to be Catholic doctrine? As such they would not be included in the Catechism anyway, as they are not doctrine, and the faithful are not bound to believe in them.

Of course we are not bound to believe in private revelations, but can something revealed in private revelations not, in time, become doctrine?

The revelations at Fatima have had the support of the Church hierarchy at the highest level (with pronouncements and public revelation of the secrets made by Popes to the entire body of the Catholic faithful) have widespread belief among the faithful, and have scriptural backing. The revelations at Fatima were not just meant for the three children, they were meant for the entire world and the actions of the Church seems to support the propogation of these revelations.
 
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Brendan_64 said:
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commenter:
The accounts of Our Lady of Fatima would be part of approved private revelation, thus not in themselves part of public revelation, which Tradition includes. For instance they would not be included in the Catechism, which is about public revelation - Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium. Sacred Tradition is certainly reinforced by approved private revelation, but it does not include it.
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Does tradition not include widely held beliefs among the Catholic faithful, that have been longstanding, do not in any way contradict Catholic teaching, but are not yet deemed to be Catholic doctrine? As such they would not be included in the Catechism anyway, as they are not doctrine, and the faithful are not bound to believe in them.

Of course we are not bound to believe in private revelations, but can something revealed in private revelations not, in time, become doctrine?

The revelations at Fatima have had the support of the Church hierarchy at the highest level (with pronouncements and public revelation of the secrets made by Popes to the entire body of the Catholic faithful) have widespread belief among the faithful, and have scriptural backing. The revelations at Fatima were not just meant for the three children, they were meant for the entire world and the actions of the Church seems to support the propogation of these revelations.
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Make a distinction between Tradition and traditions. The Catechism describes the role of Sacred Tradition (capital T, also called Apostolic Tradition). Confer Part I, Section 1, Chapter 2, Article 2, paragraphs 75 to 94. If the original poster is asking how things get accepted as Tradition, this sums it up, with links to further detail. Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium are connected, they are our guidance to doctrine.

If you mean tradition (small t), things get accepted into local tradition by the local church.

Private revelations (referring to information after the death of the last apostle) are considered for approval at the diocesan level. On rare occasions, including Fatima, the universal Church also grants them a STRONG recommendation, as private revelation.

Sometimes a belief that was common since the early Church, such as the Immaculate Conception or Assumption, about events prior to the death of the last apostle, will get reconsidered and later raised to the level of infallible dogma. These were not inventions of the last 2 centuries, they are the fruit of the Church’s long, prayerful consideration and evaluation of beliefs since the early Church, on very early events.

Mary’s reported appearance at Fatima and revelations there would never get accepted as part of Apostolic Tradition. It is a different kind of thing.

Having said that, I go to a local Fatima shrine regularly, and believe in the revelations of Our Lady at Fatima.
 
Brittany said:
We simply don’t know until the Pope dogmatically defines it as truth or condemns it as heresy. Until either of those happen, we are free to believe it or not.
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But in between those 2 extremes, we are guided on some things by our local bishop, and the virtue of prudence. The Vatican generally identifies dogma, or heresy, only rarely, at long intervals. The problem is that, in today’s media world, some ideas or practices are spread rapidly.
So 99% of the time our local bishop, or even our pastor, would guide us in some areas that are as yet uncertain. There is a tendency among some to say, well if the Pope has not condemned this as heresy, I am free to do this.

Consider your bishop, and consider prudence.
 
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The Holy Ghost guides the Councils and ensures Magesterium shall be free of error.
 
True. But the Spirit also guides the pope at certain times teaching outside councils.
 
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