What makes you think the bible is the word of God?

[tigers08]

Out of curiosity have you spoken with you parents about the Bible? You mentioned you are forced to go to church, correct? Again I am just curious. I have a child that is a few years younger than you and would like him to ask me first I really thought the Bible is the Word of God.

Ya I have. My dad’s understands where I’m coming from but he’s kinda weird about it. He basically believes that none of the bible is intended to be literal, just a guide for us. But still thinks it was inspired by God. So he doesn’t believe in creationism or the parting of the red sea and he says he isn’t sure whether he thinks Jesus literally rose or not. But he still makes our family go to church, so I don’t know exactly what he’s thinking. My mom, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to have thought about the bible and just believes it for the sake of convenience (living in a Christian society). Her main argument for me to believe the bible is that “its sad for us that you don’t believe the same thing we do”.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Ya I do. Why would God need rest?

Because his rest is a prophecy of Jesus being laid to rest.

But, after reading your post # 76 in this thread, you probably think it is just a symbol.

 

[agangbern]

God rested on the seventh day. At the risk of diverting this thread, do you have a problem with that?

(P.S. Maybe you should look into why the Jewish sabbath is Saturday. And then study the history to find out why Christians changed it to Sunday.)

There is no question that it is recorded that God rested on the seventh day. My problem is: Was that day that He rested called “Saturday”? Did God order that the seventh day shall be called Saturday, and that the first day be called Sunday? What is the basis for reckoning a day as the seventh day?
I guess this sub-topic is still connected with the topic of the thread

 

[wanner47]

The legal system deters people from committing crimes. Your knowledge that what you do has consequences affects your “choices”, even if they aren’t really choices at all.

But if we are not capable of consciously making our own choices, why should we be punished for something that we have no control over? Why would the thought of consequences keep us from doing something that we have no control over? That’s what I don’t understand.

I’m not sure exactly when I realized the connection between brain chemistry and thought. I’m in psychology right now so that may have something to do with it. I do know I was talking to this girl about free will, and she said she was confused as to how God can know what we will do in life, and thus whether we will go to heaven or hell (according to her beliefs), but we still have free will and the choice of where we go is up to us. That’s when it dawned on me that we don’t have free will.

So have you observed this brain interaction for yourself; for example, via a CAT scan or something?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Obviously no one is born thinking a certain book is God’s revelation. Someone had to tell you that the bible is God’s word. So, other than someone telling you, do you have a reason to believe the bible was inspired by God?

I just started reading the gospels and believed in Jesus. And since Jesus took the bible as the Word of God I did too.

 

[maurin]

And as far as trusting the Church…their jobs depend on you believing what they tell you, so of course they’re going to say it’s true. I don’t think you can ever trust an organization that claims to be infallible simply on those grounds.

And here’s where your argument is quite deficient. The Church does not have “jobs.” They share a ministry which is given from above. It doesn’t matter if all material wealth would disappear tomorrow. Those who have answered God’s call would continue to minister to both believers and unbelievers. In fact, I’d be willing to bet next week’s paycheck that the Church’s ministry would flourish under such conditions.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
His “logic” makes perfect sense. He is using the logic of the mechanical man.

The universe is a big clock. All is programmed. There is no choice. We think we choose, but it’s just the machine. I’m not a murderer because it’s inconvenient for me to be a murderer, today.

lol, that sounded a bit sarcastic.

I’ll leave it to one who believes as the “robot” I’ve described above believes tell us whether I’m wrong in my characterization.

I don’t see it as sarcasm as much as the truth. That really is the belief system of one who claims they live in a completely mechanical universe.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Zeaiter
Who really cares? Our faith is not based on whether angels were inside or outside.

I care. If I am to believe that a book is inspired by God, it can have no errors. Period. I disagree with the whole “only the meaning is inerrant”. There is no way to know whether the meaning was inspired by God if we can’t judge the book based on its literal words.

We DO believe in the inerrant meaning of the LITERAL, not the LITERALISTIC, meaning of the actual words of the bible.

The LITERAL meaning is what the author (the Holy Spirit through the human writer) means by what He says.

The LITERALISTIC meaning is the actual per-word “dictionary” meaning of each word.

“Raining cats and dogs” doesn’t LITERALLY, but does LITERALISTICALLY, mean that pets are falling out of the sky.

Now, to judge the LITERAL meaning of a thing, when must have the information about and (preferably FROM) the actual AUTHOR as to what He meant LITERALLY in His LITERALISTIC use of individual words.

Only The Author, the Holy Spirit through His authorized “contact”, can give us this information. He does that via the Magisterium of the Church (Catholic).

Therefore, the ONLY way that one can accept that this particular “work of words” is TRUE is if one accepts the authority of the Magisterium.

If you don’t, there IS no way to accept the truth of the bible. It is an impossibility.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Ya I have. My dad’s understands where I’m coming from but he’s kinda weird about it. He basically believes that none of the bible is intended to be literal, just a guide for us. But still thinks it was inspired by God. So he doesn’t believe in creationism or the parting of the red sea and he says he isn’t sure whether he thinks Jesus literally rose or not. But he still makes our family go to church, so I don’t know exactly what he’s thinking. My mom, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to have thought about the bible and just believes it for the sake of convenience (living in a Christian society). Her main argument for me to believe the bible is that “its sad for us that you don’t believe the same thing we do”.

Pooly educated Catholics are THE SINGULAR greatest scandal of the Church, which by “scandal” I mean behavior that leads people into disbelief or prevents them from belief.

I’m VERY glad you’re here to get an education. Please ask questions in the spirit of wanting to know facts, and not wanting to simply support your own preconceptions.

Find out WHY we believe what we believe, and how it makes sense TO US. We’re not asking you to accept what we believe, but to understand HOW we can believe it.

 

[tigers08]

Because his rest is a prophecy of Jesus being laid to rest.

But, after reading your post # 76 in this thread, you probably think it is just a symbol.

So God resting is prophecy for his Jesus dying…? That’s completely ridiculous. You don’t even need a prophecy for that. Everyone dies. Is it a prophecy that my dad went to sleep last night and I’m going to die someday? Plus God is supposedly omnipotent. He wouldn’t need rest. And I don’t think it’s a symbol. I don’t even think it’s a coincidence. I think they are completely unrelated.

 

[tigers08]

Pooly educated Catholics are THE SINGULAR greatest scandal of the Church, which by “scandal” I mean behavior that leads people into disbelief or prevents them from belief.

I’m VERY glad you’re here to get an education. Please ask questions in the spirit of wanting to know facts, and not wanting to simply support your own preconceptions.

Find out WHY we believe what we believe, and how it makes sense TO US. We’re not asking you to accept what we believe, but to understand HOW we can believe it.

Sorry but I’m really not here to learn. In fact I’m not even here for my own sake. I love to debate religion and politics, but my friends always complain that they don’t know that much, and I should try debating with people who know more about religion. So that’s why I’m here. But I do know why you believe what you believe, and why it makes sense. I used to be pretty hard core catholic. But once you see it from the outside it just seems incredibly naive, and while I remain open minded, I seriously doubt I could ever believe Christianity again. But you may want to try what you just said.

 

[tigers08]

Only The Author, the Holy Spirit through His authorized “contact”, can give us this information. He does that via the Magisterium of the Church (Catholic).

Therefore, the ONLY way that one can accept that this particular “work of words” is TRUE is if one accepts the authority of the Magisterium.

…yeeeaaaa, it’s so obvious that the Church is God’s contact. I mean, they say they are, so it must be true.

 

[tigers08]

I’ll leave it to one who believes as the “robot” I’ve described above believes tell us whether I’m wrong in my characterization.

I don’t see it as sarcasm as much as the truth. That really is the belief system of one who claims they live in a completely mechanical universe.

Well I meant your tone is sarcastic. But ya, that’s pretty much it. I don’t see anything in the world that’s random. Every atom operates under the same laws of physics and is completely predictable (obviously theoretically, not to us). So there’s really nothing that couldn’t be predicted (again theoretically). Therefore ya, the universe is like a clock.

 

[tigers08]

And here’s where your argument is quite deficient. The Church does not have “jobs.” They share a ministry which is given from above. It doesn’t matter if all material wealth would disappear tomorrow. Those who have answered God’s call would continue to minister to both believers and unbelievers. In fact, I’d be willing to bet next week’s paycheck that the Church’s ministry would flourish under such conditions.

Well first of all, the payment for their jobs isn’t just material wealth. It’s also the power. The Church is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. As we all know, power corrupts. So if you include this power, I seriously doubt the Church would continue to operate if no one believed them anymore.

 

[wanner47]

Well first of all, the payment for their jobs isn’t just material wealth. It’s also the power. The Church is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. As we all know, power corrupts. So if you include this power, I seriously doubt the Church would continue to operate if no one believed them anymore.

The Church is “one of the most powerful organizations in the world”? How so?

 

[tigers08]

But if we are not capable of consciously making our own choices, why should we be punished for something that we have no control over? Why would the thought of consequences keep us from doing something that we have no control over? That’s what I don’t understand.

To keep other people from doing it and to keep ourselves from repeating it. But really the legal system is just based on the thoughts of certain people, which are again based on their nature and nurture, so its really just a long chain of events that created our legal system. But you’ve got to remember that if I’m right, you wouldn’t know it. You would THINK you were consciously making a decision. My argument is that this thought, this idea of choice, is really an illusion.

So have you observed this brain interaction for yourself; for example, via a CAT scan or something?

 

[tigers08]

The Church is “one of the most powerful organizations in the world”? How so?

Well, they have an incredible amount of influence over their followers. The pope has the ability to send half the world to war. The Church has the power to tell people when they can have sex, whether they should kill people in pain, tell them what’s right and wrong. That’s serious power.

 

[maurin]

Well first of all, the payment for their jobs isn’t just material wealth. It’s also the power. The Church is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. As we all know, power corrupts. So if you include this power, I seriously doubt the Church would continue to operate if no one believed them anymore.

This is truly just an observation, and not a judgment, but this response of yours seems severely malinformed.

Please enlighten us on how you use the word “power.”

The Church in fact is quite powerful, but you do not exhibit that you understand what her power is.

 

[joseph_virgen]

As long as the bible is not taken too literal, there should be no proble in taking it as a wonderfull guide to a moral existence.
Point being, the story in Joshua, of the walls coming a tumbling down in Jericho never happened, as Jericho had no wall.
The story was written down some eight hundred years ofter the fact, and it was used as a marvelous depiction of a critical moment in Jewish history.

 

[johnnydigit]

In a sense what you are asking for is each person’s “conversion” story. That is probably why you found TOP’s answer meaningful. Some stories are a continuous journey of conversion from youth on; others may be more dramatic, especially if they have abandoned or doubted. I cared only about TRUTH and begged God for it. (Having intelectually determined that Jesus was not God, I was experiencing the bleakest, emptiest, most meaningless emotional period I ever hope to go through.) I remember pleading with God to give me some peace if what I believed was true; but if I was wrong, to please show me the truth.

Immediately after my conversion experience I had an absolute hunger to read every word Jesus ever spoke. That was 40+ years ago. The emotional intensity of the hunger passed with time and was replaced with something even better the longer I read the Bible and the more I studied it - and I don’t know how to describe that properly in words. (Tried in a couple sentences here, but ended up deleting them.)

I am a reader. And something on a very practical level that never ceases to amaze me, is how I can read and reread Scripture and it is always alive; a new insight can come from a passage I may have read/heard as many as 100 times before. As I said, I’m a reader, and there is absolutely no other book I could even stand to read and reread so often ---- let alone continue to find new depths and wonders.

Nita

you hit it on the nose for me as well. over time, i have just found that bit by bit, it is all true. it comes alive and comes true in my life. many times i have said, “oh my gosh. it is true. it is real. i can’t believe this. i must not forget this.”

of course, just like the Israelites, time passes and if you don’t actively keep it alive, it fades away. probably why people in general have memorials.

===========

anyways, not only has God’s words been consistently true for the millionth time since my conversion about 4 years ago (including answers from the Catholic Church), but there are many “coincidences” that i know are just too impossible to be “coincidences”.

for the Bible to not be the actual words of God, there would need to be a super intelligence that can manipulate time/space and matter around me, including of course the complete manipulation of my mind and conscience. if this is true, i.e. some super alien or government power or “matrix”, then it is futile for me to fight it and i willingly submit.

so unless Morpheus appears to me with two pills and a flip phone, all signs and logic point to God the Creator, the Word Incarnate, Jesus Christ, the Word of God, in the Holy Bible.

as a former agnostic/atheist i pray that everyone may have a chance to be as blessed as some of us are to see clearly, His truth, and to be filled with a joy that surpasses anything on Earth. there is more out there, and Jesus is the Way.