What makes you think the bible is the word of God?

[johnnydigit]

As long as the bible is not taken too literal, there should be no proble in taking it as a wonderfull guide to a moral existence.
Point being, the story in Joshua, of the walls coming a tumbling down in Jericho never happened, as Jericho had no wall.
The story was written down some eight hundred years ofter the fact, and it was used as a marvelous depiction of a critical moment in Jewish history.

you are correct. when i was agnostic, i merely was looking for truth. i was looking for a moral existence that someone, or some thing has discovered that could guide me. most of religion i found was a joke, as was some of the philosophy i was discovering, but “luckily” i was led here. my faith grew as i grew, and Truth was revealed to me the deeper i went.

it is perfect, not only for religious and spiritual nuts, but even as a practical moral guide for a happy life. the thing is, in order to benefit from it more fully, you have to take that leap of faith. it then starts to unfold into a “Matrix” beyond your imagination. go try it for yourself…

 

[Theodora]

Obviously no one is born thinking a certain book is God’s revelation. Someone had to tell you that the bible is God’s word. So, other than someone telling you, do you have a reason to believe the bible was inspired by God?

Only the grace of God can inspire me to believe that the Bible is God’s word, without anybody else telling me.

 

[agangbern]

Both inside/outside and number of angels are different. I really don’t want to go over what each gospel said again, but I don’t think God would inspire 4 different people to write 4 different stories about his “sons” resurrection.

They may appear different specially when they refer to different aspects of the same story. You should read again the gospels, and very carefully, if you truly want to see the truth of what the gospel says. Mathew 28:2 speaks of how an angel rolled back the stone and sat upon it. How Mathew knew it, we can simply guess. Mark 16 tells us that the two Mary’s saw the “angel” sitting on the right side. Luke 24 tells us that two “men” stood by them. And John 20 tells us that the two Mary’s did not actually get inside the tomb. They just stayed at the entrance and stooped to look inside, and they saw two “angels” sitting near the place where Jesus was laid. The four gospels make the whole story clearer to picture. The facts support the truth that the four gospels were inspired by God.

Why would he inspire one person to leave out the part about an earthquake moving the stone? You can say all you want about him giving the authors freedom of expression, but when it comes down to it, the 4 stories are different. I cannot believe that a loving God would reveal himself to us in a way that would only cause people to question his revelation.

Why the Lord God allowed the other gospel writer not to mention the earthquake and the rolling of the stone? Better sincerely ask the Lord God about it. He allowed it, I don’t think we have a right to question the wisdom of his plans.

 

[agangbern]

So does anyone go to hell? From what you’re saying, God basically decides who believes the bible because he has to give them the grace to do so. I really don’t understand how you could believe this, and believe people are punished if they don’t believe the bible. (That’s assuming you do believe that.)

God foreknew who are those who would use their free will and would come to Him freely. He foreknew who are His even before they were born. He never would intervene on the free will of those He foreknew would not come to Him. Now you understand to whom alone does God give the grace.

 

[agangbern]

Only the grace of God can inspire me to believe that the Bible is God’s word, without anybody else telling me.

This is one way of accepting God and at the same time denying Him.
There was a big flood covering the whole town with water. A "man of faith"was trapped on the bell tower, there was no way he could escape as the water was still rising. A boat passed by and the man on it shouted to the one on the bell tower to come to the boat. But the man on the bell tower shouted back saying, “Don’t worry, God would save me here.” For three times a boat passed by the bell tower, and three times also the invitation was made. But the man, confident of his faith, remained in the bell tower. The water rose further burying the bell tower, and together with it the man drowned. That is a faith in God that denies God.

 

[wanner47]

wanner47;3073573:

But if we are not capable of consciously making our own choices, why should we be punished for something that we have no control over? Why would the thought of consequences keep us from doing something that we have no control over

? That’s what I don’t understand.

To keep other people from doing it and to keep ourselves from repeating it. But really the legal system is just based on the thoughts of certain people, which are again based on their nature and nurture, so its really just a long chain of events that created our legal system. But you’ve got to remember that if I’m right, you wouldn’t know it. You would THINK you were consciously making a decision. My argument is that this thought, this idea of choice, is really an illusion.

But your belief still doesn’t make sense. It’s **impossible **for temporal consequences to keep us from doing something if we literally have no choice in doing it.

Nope, but I have seen the list of sources for my textbook, and while this doesn’t make it infallible, it does make it more credible. I have also checked with other sources, and they all agree. So based on this evidence, I have concluded that I can trust, at least for the time being, that this information is factual.

So all you have *faith *in this theory of yours. It’s based on available evidence, but it’s still faith since you can’t witness the chemical interactions for yourself.

How do you know that your logic, reason, and scientific assumptions are infallible?

 

[wanner47]

Well, they have an incredible amount of influence over their followers. The pope has the ability to send half the world to war. The Church has the power to tell people when they can have sex, whether they should kill people in pain, tell them what’s right and wrong. That’s serious power.

The Pope does not have the ability to send half the world to war. What is your source for that assertion?

The Church has the power to give people moral direction, but people are under no obligation to follow that moral direction. Catholics are free to reject the Church (and many have) just as they are free to reject God (as you have).

The Church gives guidance, and tells her followers what the consequences of doing or not doing certain things might be, but that’s not power by any definition of the word. The Church is a teacher, not a dictator. Individuals ultimately make their own choices whether or not to follow the Church’s teachings.

Do you think your parents have some sort of supreme dictatorial power over you? They can tell you what to do and what not to do, but even when you’re underage you have the choice to obey them or disobey them.

 

[johnnydigit]

Obviously no one is born thinking a certain book is God’s revelation. Someone had to tell you that the bible is God’s word. So, other than someone telling you, do you have a reason to believe the bible was inspired by God?

Only the grace of God can inspire me to believe that the Bible is God’s word, without anybody else telling me.

although true, i think this answer flies over the head of those looking for answers regarding God. they are looking for practical answers, and such an answer requires faith to understand it, which they are lacking in the first place.

the Bible is everything, including practical. there is a reason for everything, including the “contradictions” people point out. if you are looking to refute the Bible, go ahead and dwell on the things you don’t yet understand.
if you are looking for moral guidance or answers to our faith, then look at the bigger picture when you read. the things you don’t understand will be revealed to you as you progress.
if you are looking for God, then rest assured you have come to the right place.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Well I meant your tone is sarcastic. But ya, that’s pretty much it. I don’t see anything in the world that’s random. Every atom operates under the same laws of physics and is completely predictable (obviously theoretically, not to us). So there’s really nothing that couldn’t be predicted (again theoretically). Therefore ya, the universe is like a clock.

Then your free will, observed “after the fact”, is NOTHING you can be responsible for! In other words, “Yeah, I killed that guy, but since it did actually happen it was DESTINED to happen and therefore the universe did it!”

And that leads, rather quickly, into not taking reasponsibility in the present, then even into the future, of our actions, through the power of “habit”.

If you DO take responsibility for your past actions, why?

If you haven’t yet gotten to the point of not taking responsibility for your present and future actions, why not?

If you ARE compelled to take ANY responsibility for your acts, what “force” is “responsible” for that?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

wanner47;3073573:

But if we are not capable of consciously making our own choices, why should we be punished for something that we have no control over? Why would the thought of consequences keep us from doing something that we have no control over

? That’s what I don’t understand.

To keep other people from doing it and to keep ourselves from repeating it. But really the legal system is just based on the thoughts of certain people, which are again based on their nature and nurture, so its really just a long chain of events that created our legal system. But you’ve got to remember that if I’m right, you wouldn’t know it. You would THINK you were consciously making a decision. My argument is that this thought, this idea of choice, is really an illusion.

…

If you can’t actually know that “free will is an illusion”, why would you accept that as your “operating principle”?

You accept it “on faith”, which is a basis on which belief in God (or free will which implies God) is AT LEAST as persuasive as a belief in “mechanical universe sans God” and it’s corollary “free will and the universe are an illusion”.

Your faith tells you the universe is an illusion, where all is decided beforehand as a clock inexcerably decides what time it is. Even if it’s “run down”, as there is no one to wind it back up.

To say that there is a quality called “good or bad” in such a universe is to be utterly free to define good and bad to mean absolutely anything. Do you agree?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Well, they have an incredible amount of influence over their followers. The pope has the ability to send half the world to war. The Church has the power to tell people when they can have sex, whether they should kill people in pain, tell them what’s right and wrong. That’s serious power.

How does the Pope have this “call to war” ability?

In what way does the Church have the power to tell people when they can have sex?

How would the Church tell “force” anyone to kill or not kill people in pain?

How does the Church enforce what it thinks people should accept as “right and wrong”?

The answer to all of these is that it has only the power of persuasion, which is available to any “leader(s) of groups of humanity”. Why should the Church have any LESS of this “power” than anyone else?

Do you think that ANY large group should be “controlled” so as not to be “too persuasive”?

Who would do this “controlling”?

 

[bill210]

Obviously no one is born thinking a certain book is God’s revelation. Someone had to tell you that the bible is God’s word. So, other than someone telling you, do you have a reason to believe the bible was inspired by God?

The bottom line here is faith. You seem to search for proof before you can believe; therefore you have no faith.This is a free gift of God which you can receive by simply asking. Try it.
Bill

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

So God resting is prophecy for his Jesus dying…? That’s completely ridiculous. You don’t even need a prophecy for that. Everyone dies. Is it a prophecy that my dad went to sleep last night and I’m going to die someday? Plus God is supposedly omnipotent. He wouldn’t need rest. And I don’t think it’s a symbol. I don’t even think it’s a coincidence. I think they are completely unrelated.

emphasis mine]
Hi again tigers08,

It depends; Has your father asked you to remember the time he was asleep by keeping it holy?

I think you need a lesson in Judaism, and find out why Saturday it their Sabbath and why they keep it holy.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

So God resting is prophecy for his Jesus dying…? That’s completely ridiculous. You don’t even need a prophecy for that. Everyone dies. Is it a prophecy that my dad went to sleep last night and I’m going to die someday? Plus God is supposedly omnipotent. He wouldn’t need rest. And I don’t think it’s a symbol. I don’t even think it’s a coincidence. I think they are completely unrelated.

To which I can only respond,

Hail Mary Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee, Blessed art thou among women, and Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb Jesus.

Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

May Grace come to those who need it most. Glory Be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall Be. Amen.

 

[tigers08]

As long as the bible is not taken too literal, there should be no proble in taking it as a wonderfull guide to a moral existence.
Point being, the story in Joshua, of the walls coming a tumbling down in Jericho never happened, as Jericho had no wall.
The story was written down some eight hundred years ofter the fact, and it was used as a marvelous depiction of a critical moment in Jewish history.

YES, i completely agree! The ONLY thing I disagree with is that God inspired the bible. (Wouldn’t God know whether there were walls in Jericho?)

 

[marty30]

YES, i completely agree! The ONLY thing I disagree with is that God inspired the bible. (Wouldn’t God know whether there were walls in Jericho?)

I think the problem most of us have is that we like to complicate things and make things very complex. Jesus taught many things- One thing that I remember him saying is that we have to be child like or we have to have child like faith to enter heaven. Jesus is the fullfilment of Gods plan in the Bible and Jesus claims to be the Son of God. I believe that God is in our hearts and its inscribed in our hearts to believe. I really don’t know why people beleive other things but I do havew my very own testimony of how I was once lost and now I am found. I do belive in the Bible. Think about it. I’m probably rambling but I think if more people were able to share their testemony on how they were saved and how they came to beleive in the Bible and that it is the living word of God I think we would help more people like your self beleive also, but it takes letting go of one self and allowing God to fill your heart with Himself, speaking from experience.

 

[johnnydigit]

YES, i completely agree! The ONLY thing I disagree with is that God inspired the bible. (Wouldn’t God know whether there were walls in Jericho?)

obviously He would, therefore there is a reason it is written, of which you don’t yet understand.

God is good. God is all goodness. He is the pure goodness that dwells within every human heart. i found that if you read the Bible and replace each instance of “God” with “goodness”, it makes sense. God, who is good, inspired the Bible. (pure goodness) inspired the Bible. the (pure goodness of man) is what inspired the (B)ook of (I)nstructions (B)efore (L)eaving (E)arth.

this is of course a very basic perspective of God to help you understand “the inspired Word of God”, versus God actually writing the Ten Commandments with His “finger”.

this pure goodness (or Holy Spirit) does not care whether the author makes a grammatical error, or if each Gospel gives a different account of the same event or detail, as long as the point is reached.

 

[tigers08]

The Pope does not have the ability to send half the world to war. What is your source for that assertion?

the crusades

The Church has the power to give people moral direction, but people are under no obligation to follow that moral direction. Catholics are free to reject the Church (and many have) just as they are free to reject God (as you have).

i haven’t rejected God. And that is huge power: deciding the moral code is pretty much the biggest thing an organization could control.

The Church gives guidance, and tells her followers what the consequences of doing or not doing certain things might be, but that’s not power by any definition of the word. The Church is a teacher, not a dictator. Individuals ultimately make their own choices whether or not to follow the Church’s teachings.

Do you think your parents have some sort of supreme dictatorial power over you? They can tell you what to do and what not to do, but even when you’re underage you have the choice to obey them or disobey them.

Power: The ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority; A person, group, or nation having great influence or control over others.

The Church has great influence over people. They have great authority over them. Thus, they have great power. Yes, my parent have a lot of power over me. Power doesn’t mean complete control. Our government has a lot of power over its citizens, too. That doesn’t mean that people don’t have a choice to break the law.

 

[tigers08]

How do you know that your logic, reason, and scientific assumptions are infallible?

I don’t, and I don’t claim that they are. That’s the huge difference.

 

[tigers08]

Then your free will, observed “after the fact”, is NOTHING you can be responsible for! In other words, “Yeah, I killed that guy, but since it did actually happen it was DESTINED to happen and therefore the universe did it!”

And that leads, rather quickly, into not taking reasponsibility in the present, then even into the future, of our actions, through the power of “habit”.

If you DO take responsibility for your past actions, why?

We’re inside the “machine”. So while I think every “choice” I have made was always meant to happen, they still seemed like choices to me. We still hold a murderer responsible even if all he’s known his whole life is violence. So just because he was pretty much set to be a murderer from the time he was born, we still hold him responsible (a bad example, but you get the idea). Plus me taking responsibility for my actions was also set to happen.

If you ARE compelled to take ANY responsibility for your acts, what “force” is “responsible” for that?

The illusion of consciousness makes me think I made choices. Thus it also thinks I am responsible for those choices.

I’d say God is responsible for making me feel this way, since He set up the universe and knew I would be feeling this feeling.