What makes you think the bible is the word of God?

[tigers08]

You do not know the Bible very well.

*Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. *

What do you think “Full of grace” means? Gabriel did not say, “Mary, in grace”, he said “Hail, full of grace”.

None of that mentions anything about her being free from sin. Super models are graceful, but they sin a lot. Blessed doesn’t mean free from sin either.

 

[tigers08]

Actually history makes me believe this. I believe it was 11 out of the 12 original apostles were martyred for the faith, along with the first 43 or so Popes. You think they died for nothing? You think they actually allowed themselves to be tortured and killed for something they did not believe in? And they were there at the beginning!

Maybe they really did believe it. I have no idea what they were thinking but their belief in something doesn’t mean much to me. There are thousands of Muslim martyrs and that doesn’t make me want to be Muslim.

For someone that doesn’t believe in religion, life is short than over. Why are you wasting your time on a PC when your entire existence will be over in a blink of an eye? The rest of us believe this is only the beginning so we are in no hurry as we believe there is an afterlife.

Because I enjoy it. And if that makes you happy, believing in an afterlife, then believe it. I’m just a realist, and based on my logic an afterlife just doesn’t seem very plausible.

 

[tigers08]

I guess just as about as unlikely as there being an all powerful God who can make all this happen right.

Well I guess that depends on how you define God whether or not that’s unlikely. An old man with a white beard and human emotions…yeah, I’d have to say that’s pretty unlikely.

Or just as about as unlikely as the discovery of electricity. Don’t know where it comes from or how it works but it works.

That wasn’t unlikely at all. Actually I’d say it was almost assuredly going to happen eventually. The flow of electrons through materials is a fundamental part of science, so eventually some one was going to discover it.

Or just as about as unlikely as a world filled with people who can create and build and learn new things right. You telling me that when you see a sunset at the beach you don’t go Wow! how does he do that?

The world being filled with curious people is just evolution. Those with the most biggest brains survive and pass on the most genes, so eventually brains got pretty big, and people became more curious. And the sun…it’s a huge mass of mostly hydrogen with enough gravity to start a fusion reaction releasing tons of photons. The sun sets because the earth is spinning. The beautiful colors are due to the atmosphere bending the light.

Isn’t there at least a little part of you that wants to believe? I know some of my thoughts might be a little child like but Jesus did say in order to enter his kindom we have to be like children. The Church teaches Love, Faith, Hope, and Charity. Whats wrong with that.

No, I don’t really want to believe. I don’t WANT to believe it’s wrong either…I just want to believe the truth, or as close as I can get to it. I don’t care what that is. And no, there’s nothing wrong with it, it’s just a little naive in my opinion.

So God has performed some miracles we have a hard time grasping, the truth is the Church teaches us how to love and live and create. Any member of the Church that has done different or taught different has done so of their own accord, not the Churches teachings. What are you afraid of? If we’re right and your wrong ,wow for us. We get to learn how to love and spend eternity with God. I’m not sure where you stand but if we are wrong and just for the record,I have no doubts about the Churches Teachinngs, but if we are wrong then what?

It’s like telling a child that Santa brings them presents if they’re good all year. Sure, it makes the kid behave correctly, and the belief doesn’t really hurt the child…but it’s not true. Truth is all that matters.

 

[Harsalter]

There are thousands of Muslim martyrs and that doesn’t make me want to be Muslim.

.

Suicide murderers are not religious martyrs.

It’s obvious to me that you as the OP of this thread want to keep it open and keep feeding it with the same old unbelieving gibberish. Fine, it is every one’s free will to go to hell if they choose. Good luck with that decision.

I have periods of doubt with my faith as does most people. But I choose to believe as I do not want to spend eternity in hell. I would rather stay in bed this cold morning rather than attend Mass on this Holy Day of Obligation of ‘Mary, Holy Mother of God’. But I choose to go with my free will as I choose to do what the Church teaches rather than risk eternal damnation.

I am done with this thread.

 

[Harsalter]

None of that mentions anything about her being free from sin. Super models are graceful, but they sin a lot. Blessed doesn’t mean free from sin either.

According to Jimmy Aiken if one correctly translated the mentioned verse from Greek, the most literal translation would be “lady who has been graced and blessed from God”. One that has been graced in the past and continues to be graced.

 

[Harsalter]

None of that mentions anything about her being free from sin. Super models are graceful, but they sin a lot. Blessed doesn’t mean free from sin either.

According to Jimmy Aiken if one correctly translated the mentioned verse from Greek, the most literal translation would be “lady who has been graced and blessed from God”. One that has been graced in the past and continues to be graced.

Now I’m done. Just wanted to add this that I just heard on EWTN Radio.

 

[marty30]

Yes I have, and I have no idea what the truth is. I guess I’m agnostic because I don’t think you can know the truth. But I think I can figure out logical fallacies in certain beliefs so I can rule out some religions.

That’s good that you research it. I know a few smart catholics but they definitely don’t have their eyes open.

I love guitar hero. lol, jk. I do like thinking about religion/God/etc and I like discussing it with others.** From that statement though, it doesn’t seem like you are very objective in your search./**QUOTE]

What do you mean?

 

[marty30]

Obviously no one is born thinking a certain book is God’s revelation. Someone had to tell you that the bible is God’s word. So, other than someone telling you, do you have a reason to believe the bible was inspired by God?

The Holy Spirit. I know its not realistic for you but it’s the truth for us. And even in your atempt to say there is no truth you have to ask your self, is that true that there is no such thing as truth and are you sure? If you say yes then that is the truth as you see… You ethier beleive or you don’t. You may be confused and many are but the truth is ingraved within in us, so if you pause from searching out word and start searching inward, things just might clear up a bit. Here is a good objective thing to try… Even though you don’t believe in God, just to prove we are wrong, try praying to Him and ask Him if He is there to show you. Do it for 1 week everyday and see what happens. You don’t have to believe, just do it. If nothing happens then one more point for you. What do you have to loose. “God if you’re there show me you’re there. And I need a big sign.” If you will do this and just be open a little tiny bit to the thought that there just may be some little truth to it all, I’m willing to bet(figurativily speaking) that something will happen, something more than just a little coincedence. I challenge you.

 

[tigers08]

The Holy Spirit. I know its not realistic for you but it’s the truth for us. And even in your atempt to say there is no truth you have to ask your self, is that true that there is no such thing as truth and are you sure?

I never said there is no truth. What does that even mean? I mean obviously something created the universe. (Well I guess it COULD be eternal, but that seems unlikely considering the evidence for the big bang). All I said was I don’t think we can know the truth. At least not with any certainty.

If you say yes then that is the truth as you see… You ethier beleive or you don’t. You may be confused and many are but the truth is ingraved within in us, so if you pause from searching out word and start searching inward, things just might clear up a bit.

I’m not confused. Things cleared up a lot when I realized the bible was just a book of stories and wasn’t “inspired” by God.

Here is a good objective thing to try… Even though you don’t believe in God, just to prove we are wrong, try praying to Him and ask Him if He is there to show you.

I never said I don’t believe in God. And when I first began to see that my Catholic beliefs were wrong, I did. I prayed a ton. I begged God to let me know if my new thoughts were wrong. But he didn’t, and I see things much clearer now.

Do it for 1 week everyday and see what happens. You don’t have to believe, just do it. If nothing happens then one more point for you. What do you have to loose. “God if you’re there show me you’re there. And I need a big sign.” If you will do this and just be open a little tiny bit to the thought that there just may be some little truth to it all, I’m willing to bet(figurativily speaking) that something will happen, something more than just a little coincedence. I challenge you.

I’ve already done that for much more than a week. And I did believe at the time. I am open to the thought, I’m just a realist and revealed religions seem incredibly unlikely. I’d say just about impossible.

 

[tigers08]

Suicide murderers are not religious martyrs.

I wasn’t just talking about suicide Muslim martyrs. There are probably just as many who were killed because of their beliefs who didn’t want to die.

It’s obvious to me that you as the OP of this thread want to keep it open and keep feeding it with the same old unbelieving gibberish. Fine, it is every one’s free will to go to hell if they choose. Good luck with that decision.

That is, if there is an afterlife, and if that afterlife consists of a punishment or reward based on this life, and if that consequence is based on our beliefs. All of which I think are extremely unlikely.

I have periods of doubt with my faith as does most people. But I choose to believe as I do not want to spend eternity in hell.

You choose to believe there IS a hell.

I would rather stay in bed this cold morning rather than attend Mass on this Holy Day of Obligation of ‘Mary, Holy Mother of God’. But I choose to go with my free will as I choose to do what the Church teaches rather than risk eternal damnation.

Yes, but you must consider your choice to obey the Catholic Church is risking eternal damnation if some other religion is right. There is no belief that doesn’t have potential consequences if that belief is wrong. That’s why faith (the blind belief definition of faith) is just condemning yourself to the consequences of your birth (for probably 90-95% of people).

 

[tigers08]

According to Jimmy Aiken if one correctly translated the mentioned verse from Greek, the most literal translation would be “lady who has been graced and blessed from God”. One that has been graced in the past and continues to be graced.

OK, I still don’t think that has anything to do with being free from sin or the Immaculate Conception.

 

[tigers08]

I love being Catholic and I love knowing the Truth.

From that statement though, it doesn’t seem like you are very objective in your search.

What do you mean?

I mean that first you said you objectively search for the truth each and every day, then you say you know the truth because you are Catholic. I will never say I KNOW the truth, because there’s always the possibility that I’m wrong. It seems to me that anyone who is objective in their beliefs can’t claim to know the truth.

 

[marty30]

I never said there is no truth. What does that even mean? I mean obviously something created the universe. (Well I guess it COULD be eternal, but that seems unlikely considering the evidence for the big bang). All I said was I don’t think we can know the truth. At least not with any certainty.

I’m not confused. Things cleared up a lot when I realized the bible was just a book of stories and wasn’t “inspired” by God.

I never said I don’t believe in God. And when I first began to see that my Catholic beliefs were wrong, I did. I prayed a ton. I begged God to let me know if my new thoughts were wrong. But he didn’t, and I see things much clearer now.

I’ve already done that for much more than a week. And I did believe at the time. I am open to the thought, I’m just a realist and revealed religions seem incredibly unlikely. I’d say just about impossible.

But you’re not sure right, because you said there is know way to no the truth. So how do you know you made the right decision if there is no way to know the truth. So you could be wrong right.

 

[marty30]

I mean that first you said you objectively search for the truth each and every day, then you say you know the truth because you are Catholic. I will never say I KNOW the truth, because there’s always the possibility that I’m wrong. It seems to me that anyone who is objective in their beliefs can’t claim to know the truth.

But the Catholic Church does claim to know the truth. We don’t know every thing but God has allowed us to know some things. The Bible and tradion from past generations are the answer to the truth.
** John8
31
Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, “If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples,
32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”**

 

[tigers08]

But you’re not sure right, because you said there is know way to no the truth. So how do you know you made the right decision if there is no way to know the truth. So you could be wrong right.

Of course I could be wrong. So could you. I don’t KNOW I made the right decision, but based on the evidence, and just logical thinking, I have determined that Christianity, and all revealed religions for that matter, have virtually no probability of being right. I know you’re thinking “well, if there’s even a chance it’s right, you might as well believe it because of Pascal’s wager”. That would be OK advice if the choice was between not believing and believing Catholicism. But there are 1,000’s of religions, each condemning the others to so form of punishment. Plus, believing something for fear of punishment isn’t really belief. I would think God would see right through that.

 

[marty30]

Of course I could be wrong. So could you. I don’t KNOW I made the right decision, but based on the evidence, and just logical thinking, I have determined that Christianity, and all revealed religions for that matter, have virtually no probability of being right. I know you’re thinking “well, if there’s even a chance it’s right, you might as well believe it because of Pascal’s wager”. That would be OK advice if the choice was between not believing and believing Catholicism. But there are 1,000’s of religions, each condemning the others to so form of punishment. Plus, believing something for fear of punishment isn’t really belief. I would think God would see right through that.

What evidence do you have that Christianity has no probability? Even the greatest minds of scientist and doctors and highly educated men believe in a creator of the world.

 

[tigers08]

But the Catholic Church does claim to know the truth. We don’t know every thing but God has allowed us to know some things. The Bible and tradion from past generations are the answer to the truth.
** John8
31
Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, “If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples,
32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”**

OK the Church claims to know the truth, and you believe them. But that’s not an objective belief. The bible and tradition COULD be the truth, but have you considered the fact that they might not be the truth? Objective means you don’t care which religion you belong to, but believe it based on the evidence you’ve seen. From what you’ve said it sounds like you just assume anything the Church says is the truth.

 

[tigers08]

What evidence do you have that Christianity has no probability? Even the greatest minds of scientist and doctors and highly educated men believe in a creator of the world.

I said virtually no probability. I obviously can’t say it’s impossible. But it’s more the lack of evidence…like a world wide flood, or chariots in the red sea. Also the hundreds of contradictions within the bible, as well as just the idea of God revealing himself in the first place. Why would he do that…if he wants people to believe in him, then he would have to reveal himself to everyone. Otherwise people REALLY aren’t believing in God, just the person who told them about God. And once you really think about it, the bible makes the world sound childish. It’s full of magic and miracles, claims rain comes from a sphere of water suspended above the atmosphere, etc. And I never said I don’t believe in a creator of the world. I mean something had to make the universe. Whether that something is conscious or not…I have no idea.

 

[marty30]

I said virtually no probability. I obviously can’t say it’s impossible. But it’s more the lack of evidence…like a world wide flood, or chariots in the red sea. Also the hundreds of contradictions within the bible, as well as just the idea of God revealing himself in the first place. Why would he do that…if he wants people to believe in him, then he would have to reveal himself to everyone. Otherwise people REALLY aren’t believing in God, just the person who told them about God. And once you really think about it, the bible makes the world sound childish. It’s full of magic and miracles, claims rain comes from a sphere of water suspended above the atmosphere, etc. And I never said I don’t believe in a creator of the world. I mean something had to make the universe. Whether that something is conscious or not…I have no idea.

Well I’m going to a Catholic retreat in Texas tomorrow to do some objective research. I’ll be back Monday. If I get to a computer while I’m there I’ll let you know if I learned anything. I do sincerely pray and hope that you find what your looking for. I truly believe deep down in side you believe, you want to believe, but you’ve been hurt or let down or something. Once a Catholic always a Catholic I say.


Oh yea, just for the record, I haven’t always been a Catholic. I spent 26 years of my life not believing in any thing because of my perception of everything. I did a lot of home work and I became willing, openminded, and honest. Those things have been essential for my coming to believe in the Catholic Church. You should watch EWTN, The Journey Home is really good. There are many reverts who share their testomony. Well any ways God bless you.

 

[tigers08]

Well I’m going to a Catholic retreat in Texas tomorrow to do some objective research.

How is that objective?

You should watch EWTN, The Journey Home is really good. There are many reverts who share their testomony. Well any ways God bless you.

I’ll look into that.