What may a person say when receiving Communion?

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no one has answered this
Would Jesus be pleased with a liturgically perfect celebration at the expense of respect to a bishop?
 
Lux_et_Tenebrae said:
When i said
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Has anyone written to Rome? I’d be very interested to learn the response if you would even get a response.

I mean regarding this particular situation.
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What part of “No one is permitted to undervalue the mystery entrusted to our hands” — did you not get.
 
No need to be so nasty–

I would be interested in knowing if this particular complaint would be addressed, or even answered.
 
Lux_et_Tenebrae said:
no one has answered this
Would Jesus be pleased with a liturgically perfect celebration at the expense of respect to a bishop?
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How pleased would our Lord be with someone who does the following.

RS–2004

[11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.[27] On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,[28] and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today. Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,[29] but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.[30] The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.[31]
 
The problem here is the common attitude of some that the bishops know everything and the dumb laity should remain silent.

This thread is about one thing: the response in the Roman Rite after Communion.

In the extraordinary usage, there is silence.

In the ordinary usage, the word is “Amen”.

That should have ended this thread on Page 1. Instead, after hearing that some people have decided even this seemingly simple issue needs to be made complicated by changing “Amen” to something else, we have the view that “so long as a bishop okays it”, we should (or even must) obey.

Sorry! The reply is “Amen” in the ordinary usage. Though one might well be amazed that even this seemingly simple issue has been screwed around with by some prelates who seem incapable of leaving the liturgy (which they don’t exclusively own) alone.

Nor are there “secret rubrics” that the bishops knows about and we do not. The liturgy belongs to us all, and the rules that govern it are matters of public record to all the faithful (indeed, to anyone who wants to and can read).

Bishops have certain latitude in liturgy, over rather clearly defined issues. This is not one of them.

Nor is any of this mere “opinion”. It’s liturgical law, clearly accessible and quite explicit about this issue.
 
Walking_Home said:
You seem to be overlooking that the documents issued by Rome ARE answers.
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Ok so what are you told to do, when the answer is not followed?

That answer is also given to you, but you don’t want to hear it.
 
Lux_et_Tenebrae said:
Ok so what are you told to do, when the answer is not followed?

That answer is also given to you, but you don’t want to hear it.
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Write a letter to the bishop expressing the concern. If his reply is more or less “I do what I want in my diocese”—then the next step is to send documentation of the original letter and the bishops response to Rome.
 
The confusion here is over what constitutes “disrespect for a bishop”.

If my bishop told me to stop saying Amen and to say “I believe”, disobeying him is not “disrespect”.

He is acting ultra vires, and that does not merit obedience.
 
AlexV said:
The confusion here is over what constitutes “disrespect for a bishop”.

If my bishop told me to stop saying Amen and to say “I believe”, disobeying him is not “disrespect”.

He is acting ultra vires, and that does not merit obedience.
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It may not be disobedience, but on a personal level it absolutely is disrespect.

And unless you can read the bishop’s mind and know WHY he asks what he does, then it’s foolhardy and totally unproductive to make your first step a slap-in-his-face refusal.

Again, the need to educate rather than insult the Bishop, which action alone will benefit the whole diocese, must be put ahead of your own need to be liturgically right.
 
I was taught, in the education leading up to my First Holy Communion, to say “Amen.” and nothing else… but then that was in the late 90s and things do change.

Perhaps the very beautiful sentiment is a pre-Vatican II thing? I see no inherent harm in the matter… in fact I think it is quite a lot more heart-felt than “Amen.” often is… but I can also see how the unorthodox nature of it might bother people.
 
LilyM said:
It may not be disobedience, but on a personal level it absolutely is disrespect.

And unless you can read the bishop’s mind and know WHY he asks what he does, then it’s foolhardy and totally unproductive to make your first step a slap-in-his-face refusal.

Again, the need to educate rather than insult the Bishop, which action alone will benefit the whole diocese, must be put ahead of your own need to be liturgically right.
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This is honestly one of the craziest posts I have ever read. You seriously think that disregarding an order from your bishop telling you to BREAK THE LITURGICAL LAW OF THE ONE CHURCH OF CHRIST is some form of disrespect to him? No open confrontation, no scene, no acrimony, simply ignoring a command to disobey legitimate spiritual authority, and we’ve got some sort of personal insult to the guy who’s in the wrong?

If the bishop told you to club your toddler with a pipe and you refused, would that also be disrespectful to him? What about if he told you to steal a lawnchair? How insulting of you to refuse.

Alex hit the nail squarely on the head. The whole thread is, as he said, simply absurd. First we’ve got someone denying papal supremacy, now we have to try to explain to someone else how doing the right thing during the liturgy is not an affront to episcopal dignity.
 
**Folks:

If you have an informed reply to posts in the thread, please do feel free to contribute. Those who wish to bicker and strain gnats with one another, please cease and desist.**
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
This is honestly one of the craziest posts I have ever read. You seriously think that disregarding an order from your bishop telling you to BREAK THE LITURGICAL LAW OF THE ONE CHURCH OF CHRIST is some form of disrespect to him? No open confrontation, no scene, no acrimony, simply ignoring a command to disobey legitimate spiritual authority, and we’ve got some sort of personal insult to the guy who’s in the wrong?

If the bishop told you to club your toddler with a pipe and you refused, would that also be disrespectful to him? What about if he told you to steal a lawnchair? How insulting of you to refuse.

Alex hit the nail squarely on the head. The whole thread is, as he said, simply absurd. First we’ve got someone denying papal supremacy, now we have to try to explain to someone else how doing the right thing during the liturgy is not an affront to episcopal dignity.
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What’s truly crazy is YOU implying that the saying of something other than ‘Amen’ at Communion is anything like the sins of theft or abuse of one’s child!

Of course if a Bishop commands us to sin we have the right and duty to strenuously resist. This isn’t such a case, nothing like. No danger to life or limb, little if any to your soul.

As I said before, correct where necessary on such minor liturgical points, but leave it for outside the church and after Mass. You will achieve more that way than you ever would by obstinacy in church.
 
another clarification–

No one said the bishop ordered anyone to say “I believe” --just that he said it was an option.

I agree that the official response should be used, but I wouldn’t allow this to be a cause of anger to me, and I seriously doubt the bishop would be reprimanded if this were reported.

Lux
 
Lux_et_Tenebrae said:
another clarification–

No one said the bishop ordered anyone to say “I believe” --just that he said it was an option.
I agree that the official response should be used, but I wouldn’t allow this to be a cause of anger to me, and I seriously doubt the bishop would be reprimanded if this were reported.

Lux
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An option that only the Apostolic See has the authority to implement.
 
I’ll give a better example.

About 15 years ago, a bishop visited a certain community. I was present.

At the time for the Eucharistic Prayer, he began by saying, “Let us stand as a priestly people in the ancient sign of respect and honor to our Lord.”

Some people were confused…they had (automatically) started to kneel. They looked at each other, curious. Some (very few, as I recall) did stand. Most remained kneeling. The bishop said, “I said…let us stand.” Some more now stood. Most did not. The bishop looked apoplectic. He said, “WE ARE A PRIESTLY PEOPLE, AND WE STAND TO HONOR OUR LORD!”

This time, nobody else stood…presumably because he didn’t use an imperative, despite his loud tone.

That community did not “disrespect” him. They taught a valuable lesson. As soon as he started the actual PRAYER, the few standing knelt right back down.
 
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