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Katrinka_Yobotz
Guest
I observed one of our Eucharistic Ministers receive Holy Communion in the hands, then dust them off as if the remaining crumbs were dirt! We need to return to the former reverence.
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M
manualman
Guest
The actual documents of Vatican II explicitly denigrate the practice of receiving communion in the hand as less fitting than receiving on the tongue directly. The indult was not given because the bishops as a whole thought it was a good idea. It was given because the practice had already become widespread via disobedience and the bishops judged that an authoritarian crackdown wasn’t warranted because other matters had a much higher priority. Don’t take my word for it, look it up and read it yourself. I found it in about 5 minutes of scanning the table of contents of my copy of Vatican II compendium book. Strange that it isn’t widely know that way.
I quit receiving in the hand in college. The parish I attended used home-made unleavened bread which made HUGE and many crumbs. Worse, EVERY recipient of communion was a Eucharistic minister for the person behind him/her in line. Being a typical college kid at the time I didn’t give it a thought until one day as I was kneeling after communion (amazingly, they still had kneelers) the sun hit the hard polished conrete floor just right such that I could see the THOUSANDS of crumbs lying all over near the altar. That angle of the sun was NOT a coincidence. A crumb you can see is a crumb recognizable as bread… I’ve received on the tongue ever since and never at that parish again. (Saying something at the time wasn’t an option. I was an ignorant kid and the parish was effectively run by a woman “pastoral associate” who wore vestments for the mass, stood beside the priest, insisted on “Our Father, Our Mother God, who art in heaven…” and who stood next to the priest during the consecration, extended her hands and mouthed the words along with him.) Those were dark days in Madison WI. I hear things have shaped up dramatically since then with a new bishop.
In any case it seems simple to me. Receiving on the tongue is the will of the council fathers. Receiving on the hand is the rebellious introduction of dissident priests and bishops reluctantly recognized after the fact. Not a hard choice.
I quit receiving in the hand in college. The parish I attended used home-made unleavened bread which made HUGE and many crumbs. Worse, EVERY recipient of communion was a Eucharistic minister for the person behind him/her in line. Being a typical college kid at the time I didn’t give it a thought until one day as I was kneeling after communion (amazingly, they still had kneelers) the sun hit the hard polished conrete floor just right such that I could see the THOUSANDS of crumbs lying all over near the altar. That angle of the sun was NOT a coincidence. A crumb you can see is a crumb recognizable as bread… I’ve received on the tongue ever since and never at that parish again. (Saying something at the time wasn’t an option. I was an ignorant kid and the parish was effectively run by a woman “pastoral associate” who wore vestments for the mass, stood beside the priest, insisted on “Our Father, Our Mother God, who art in heaven…” and who stood next to the priest during the consecration, extended her hands and mouthed the words along with him.) Those were dark days in Madison WI. I hear things have shaped up dramatically since then with a new bishop.
In any case it seems simple to me. Receiving on the tongue is the will of the council fathers. Receiving on the hand is the rebellious introduction of dissident priests and bishops reluctantly recognized after the fact. Not a hard choice.
U
Umvard
Guest
I would just like to clarify a little bit on this statement, which sounds so very severe. “Anytime” is a misstatement because the Catholic Church must care for its lay people by not changing mass practices without warning. I strongly hope that our church leaders aren’t prone to such rude and impatient (Love isn’t rude or impatient
) changes.I do strongly feel for this problem of the Eucharist that, until now, I was unaware of, or at least hadn’t fully thought out. As I am from the U.S, I will probably continue to receive communion in the hand, yet I will be sure to consume any crumbs that rest on my receiving hand after I lift the host (with my other hand) to my mouth.
But, reverence can only protect the Eucharist so far because surely microscopic particles will escape in either method (hand or mouth).
Hey, I just had a thought: could the wheaten hosts be covered with a non-wheat substance that coats and protects the host and keeps crumbs from falling? Or do the hosts have to be pure wheat, without even a protective coating? Maybe we should have some Catholic biochemists get to work on distilling a coating from the wheat grain itself!. That would make me feel so much better if the hosts were protected.
O
Ocarm
Guest
I don’t think that this would stop the forming of crumbs and their tendency to fall off during the fracture of the larger host, which action is, as I understand it, a necessary part of the eucharistic prayer. Happy to be corrected on that, of course.Hey, I just had a thought: could the wheaten hosts be covered with a non-wheat substance that coats and protects the host and keeps crumbs from falling? Or do the hosts have to be pure wheat, without even a protective coating? Maybe we should have some Catholic biochemists get to work on distilling a coating from the wheat grain itself!. That would make me feel so much better if the hosts were protected.
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Umvard
Guest
I know its terrible!! I am a high school student and when our youth group is running the mass, I am really, really concerned that they are not adequately trained to serve. Our church practically pulls Eucharistic Ministers off the street: they are given no real training or testing to make sure they understand the gravity of the office they are partaking in. They may not even be aware that the host is really the Body of Christ at all! I was horrified when they asked me to be a minister without any preparation. This is serious business. I will not be quiet on this (instructing the ignorant is a Spiritual Work of Mercy so I really ought get cracking:thumbsup
.
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ProVobis
Guest
Recognizable? How recognizable? One can store this entire thread on a electronic circuitry the size of a few angstroms. That size should be recognizable for everyone because everyone sees this thread. In the same way, the Body and Blood of Christ, like everyone else’s body and blood, should be “recognizable” to less than the size of an atom.
U
Umvard
Guest
I think you’re right. My main thought was that the coating wouldn’t actually be part of the host, but would only contain the host. Now that I think about it, though, I don’t think that consecrated hosts are allowed to be contained in such a manner, not to mention the actual consecration of hosts when the coating is on. Wishful thinking I guess.
B
BigRedpg51
Guest
When a particle of the consecrated host accidentally breaks off and becomes separated from it…even if it falls onto the floor…it looses it’s consecrated status if it can no longer be recognized as a piece of the host. That is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
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PJM
Guest
Hoping to aid our understanding, this is a meditation I read this morning:
I am currently reading “The holy Eucharist” by St. Alphonus De Ligiori and this morning meditation is so profoundly beautiful I felt I should share it with all of you.
“Meditation Number V. The Union of the Soul with Jesus in Holy Communion.”
St. Dionysiusn the Aeropagite says that the principle effect of love is to tend to union. For whose very purpose did Jesus Institute the Sacrament of Holy Communion, that He might unite Himself entirely to our souls. He had given Himself to us as our master, our example, and our victim; it only remained for Him to give Himself as our food, that He might become one with us; as food becomes one with the person who eats it. This He did by Instituting this Sacrament of Love: “the last degree of love” [says St. Bernadine of Sienna {a Doctor of the CC}] “is when He gave Himself to us as our food; because He gave Himself to be united with us in every way, as food and he who takes it is united,”
So that Christ was not satisfied with uniting Himself to [only] our human nature; but He would by this Sacrament, find a way of uniting Himself to each one of us, so as to make Himself wholly one with us who receive Him. Hence St. Francis De Sales writes: “in no other action can our Savior be considered more tender than is this , in which He , as it were, annihilates Himself, and reduces Himself to food, that He may penetrate our souls, and unite Himself to the hearts of His faithful.” Because Jesus loves us ardently, He desires to unite Himself to us in Holy Eucharist, in order that we might become the same thing with Him; thus writes St. Chrystom: “He mingled Himself with us, that we might be one; for this belongs to those who love greatly.” In brief, Oh God of love, that our hearts and yours should form but one heart. “Your Will is that we have one heart with you,” say’s St. Laurence Justinian .”
He that therefore Communicates, abides in Jesus, and Jesus abides in him; and this union is not mere affections, but is true and real union. As two wax candles , when melted become one, say’s St. Cyril of Alexandria, unite themselves into one, so he that Communicates becomes one with Jesus Christ. Let us therefore imagine that which He said one day to His beloved servant, Margaret of Ypres; “Behold, oh my daughter, the beautiful union between you and Me, come then love Me, and let us remain constantly united in this love, never more to be separated.”
As to the crumbs. They are the complete Christ. True when they fall on the ground God removes His Presence, but the Sacriledge remains.
I am currently reading “The holy Eucharist” by St. Alphonus De Ligiori and this morning meditation is so profoundly beautiful I felt I should share it with all of you.
“Meditation Number V. The Union of the Soul with Jesus in Holy Communion.”
St. Dionysiusn the Aeropagite says that the principle effect of love is to tend to union. For whose very purpose did Jesus Institute the Sacrament of Holy Communion, that He might unite Himself entirely to our souls. He had given Himself to us as our master, our example, and our victim; it only remained for Him to give Himself as our food, that He might become one with us; as food becomes one with the person who eats it. This He did by Instituting this Sacrament of Love: “the last degree of love” [says St. Bernadine of Sienna {a Doctor of the CC}] “is when He gave Himself to us as our food; because He gave Himself to be united with us in every way, as food and he who takes it is united,”
So that Christ was not satisfied with uniting Himself to [only] our human nature; but He would by this Sacrament, find a way of uniting Himself to each one of us, so as to make Himself wholly one with us who receive Him. Hence St. Francis De Sales writes: “in no other action can our Savior be considered more tender than is this , in which He , as it were, annihilates Himself, and reduces Himself to food, that He may penetrate our souls, and unite Himself to the hearts of His faithful.” Because Jesus loves us ardently, He desires to unite Himself to us in Holy Eucharist, in order that we might become the same thing with Him; thus writes St. Chrystom: “He mingled Himself with us, that we might be one; for this belongs to those who love greatly.” In brief, Oh God of love, that our hearts and yours should form but one heart. “Your Will is that we have one heart with you,” say’s St. Laurence Justinian .”
He that therefore Communicates, abides in Jesus, and Jesus abides in him; and this union is not mere affections, but is true and real union. As two wax candles , when melted become one, say’s St. Cyril of Alexandria, unite themselves into one, so he that Communicates becomes one with Jesus Christ. Let us therefore imagine that which He said one day to His beloved servant, Margaret of Ypres; “Behold, oh my daughter, the beautiful union between you and Me, come then love Me, and let us remain constantly united in this love, never more to be separated.”
As to the crumbs. They are the complete Christ. True when they fall on the ground God removes His Presence, but the Sacriledge remains.
C
cathguy
Guest
I am sure you are correct. But could you provide a source for this? I am curious. Thanks!
L
Lepanto
Guest
The presence of honey and salt does not affect validity, merely liceity.
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BigRedpg51
Guest
I remember reading it in Adoremus Bulletin once. It was in the area where people write in to the editor concerning different questions they have on the liturgy, and different abuses that they’ve observed. I’m not sure of the source of the information – although, Adoremus Bulletin always quotes authoritative sources – so I have full confidence in it’s veracity.
God bless!
John
O
otjm
Guest
While we are discussing crumbs of the Host, you might want to see if you can find rubricsandritual.blogspot.com/2007/08/communion-cloth-or-paten.html. It makes for an interesting discussion and may (or may not) lend further thought to the issue.
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PJM
Guest
***Thanks for asking.
Right now I’m 3 day’s behind in posting so I can’t do it immediately.
I have cut and pasted your post, will search and get you the information ASAP even if I have to PM to you.
I know its true, and your right to ask for evidence./I]***
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