What month was Christ actually born?

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jmcrae said:
I don’t know why we can’t just believe the Early Church. Is there something to suggest that they didn’t know what they were talking about?
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For an example of where the testimony of the early church can still leave questions, take a look at Easter. The Eastern and Western churches celebrate it at different times.

With the passage of the centuries and the calendar reform that transitioned the world from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1582 by the papal bull, Inter Gravissimas, there may well be room for discussion of the date of Christmas.

All that aside, I doubt anyone on this thread is hanging her/his salvation on the date. The fact that Christ was born, died, rose again, and gave us His church, is sufficient.

Paul
 
I am amazed at the things I have found, they even got the Israeli weather forecasters involved to determine temperatures and precipiatation…
 
What could be more important than the Incarnation of Christ? Not much!

So, are we, all these years, by trusting in the date the Church gives us, celebrating it on the wrong day because of some mix-up, goof, or clerical eror? 😦

:newidea:
Or – maybe God, who was able to preserve his Word perfect in the hands of many generations of fallible people, is also able to perfectly preserve the date of His Incarnation, so that all of perfect heaven and imperfect earth are not to celebating it, together, on the wrong day – while the* real* most important birthday in all of the history of mankind gets ignored and overlooked - every year!

:doh2: Oops.

Then if that were so it would follow that on some other day, kept secret from us, due to the Great Gaff, Heaven must be having an amazing annual celebration, which we are prevented from celebrating with them. :crying:

:nope: But I don’t think so.

Heaven wanted to save the house of the Holy Family and went to miraculous efforts to save it, bringing in a host of angels and Archangels and Our Lady with our infant Lord to move it across the sea. :eek:

But I guess Heaven was so disintersted in the date of the Incarnation of Christ that everyone in Heaven was* asleep* the day the wrong date was picked :yawn: , as no one did anything to inspire the Holy Souls within the Church to not make a gaff that would exist for centuries.

…🤷 …

Holy House of Loreto: http://bobandpennylordblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/holy-house-of-loreto.html also http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/loreto.htm
 
Eliza10 said:
What could be more important than the Incarnation of Christ? Not much!

So, are we, all these years, by trusting in the date the Church gives us, celebrating it on the wrong day because of some mix-up, goof, or clerical eror? 😦
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I had no idea that some good natured discussion of a seemingly harmless topic would draw such ire. My apologies if my Latin is bit rusty, but with this, I shall withdraw:

Ego subeo Confuto Sanctus Congregation of Omnimodus Inquisition.

Paul

ps. I am adding a slice of pizza 🍕 because I couldn’t find a suitable emoticon for amused bewilderment. That, and I like pizza.
 
Well this is taken right from my RCIA book

The time of Jesus birth reveals Jesus’ mission on earth The angel said You will find them( HIM) lying in a manger

Shepherds …were spending the night in the fields taking care of their flocks

Normally, shepherds herded their flocks into caves or pens for the night, to protect them from the cold and from wild animals. One time, however, when they did not do this was lambing season---- lest the newborn lambs be trampled to death

Lambing season would have been a highly symbolic time for Jesus ,the Lamb of God to be born… For like other lambs born near Bethlehem( in the shadow of Jerusalem’s temple) Jesus was destined for sacrifice
 
“If life begins at conception, then why do we celebrate Christmas in December?”

marietta
 
T 700 if someones faith is so weak it can’t stand up to an honest question , don’t worry about it

You are most welcome on this thread
 
Nickkname said:
A prophet always dies on the day he was born. Jesus was a prophet. So He died in the month on which He was born. God decreed this to show that Jesus truly was a Prophet and the Lamb.
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Really?

I am not doubting you but have never heard this before. Where does this teaching come from?
 
corki according to what I have read Jesus was crucified in March or April…
 
marietta said:
“If life begins at conception, then why do we celebrate Christmas in December?”

marietta
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Christmas celebrates the Nativity or the Birth of Christ.

The Solemnity of the Incarnation is celebrated on March 25. It is also known as the Feast of the Annunciation, but it celebrates the conception of Our Lord.
The Feast of the Annunciation, March 25, is one of the most important in the Church calendar. It celebrates the actual Incarnation of Our Savior the Word made flesh in the womb of His mother, Mary.
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wf-f.org/Annunciation.html
 
Pauls question was “What month do you think Jesus was born” He didn’t say the church was wrong for celb. it on Dec . 25.

I believe it was in the fall sometime. Mary and Joesph were traveling there for the census that was requried by the King. The shepards were tending their “flock in the fields” when the Angel appered to them telling them where to find Jesus. A simple search of the weather in the area tells us the people wouldn’t be traveling in the Winter. It’s cold and snowing there too and the shepards wouldn’t be out in the fields during the winter. (keeping in mind travel back then was by walking, if it’s snowing and blowing, ice storms, with only foot paths to walk on I highly doubt they traveled in the Winter.)

Another bit of “history” from the church tells us the reason that the Date Dec. 25 was chosen is because the Pagans use to worship the SUN, notice the spelling here please SUN god, which is a Pagan god. The church wanted to bring the Pagans into Christianity and so this date was picked.

Although it is true we don’t know the Date as it was never recorded the fact remains that Jesus truely was born, died and was rose. This is what we celb. with his birth.

I find Pauls question a very good question. It’s easy to do a search on it.
 
redrosetea said:
That sounds like another vote for springtime

I have been doing a bit of reading and people have all sorts of theories…some think it is autumn…I think if we look at the lambing it is spring
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It would have to be around the time of a great feast, which would explain the troble getting a room at the “inn” Bathlehem is, after all, not far from Jerusalem.
 
adelore said:
Pauls question was “What month do you think Jesus was born” He didn’t say the church was wrong for celb. it on Dec . 25.

I believe it was in the fall sometime. Mary and Joesph were traveling there for the census that was requried by the King. The shepards were tending their “flock in the fields” when the Angel appered to them telling them where to find Jesus. A simple search of the weather in the area tells us the people wouldn’t be traveling in the Winter. It’s cold and snowing there too and the shepards wouldn’t be out in the fields during the winter. (keeping in mind travel back then was by walking, if it’s snowing and blowing, ice storms, with only foot paths to walk on I highly doubt they traveled in the Winter.)

Another bit of “history” from the church tells us the reason that the Date Dec. 25 was chosen is because the Pagans use to worship the SUN, notice the spelling here please SUN god, which is a Pagan god. The church wanted to bring the Pagans into Christianity and so this date was picked.

Although it is true we don’t know the Date as it was never recorded the fact remains that Jesus truely was born, died and was rose. This is what we celb. with his birth.

I find Pauls question a very good question. It’s easy to do a search on it.
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Some people do believe it was around the time of the feast of Tabernacles. His birth around that time or at Passover would explain the overcrowding. But sometimes I wonder of the traditional story of coming immediately from Nazareth to Bethlehem is true. This is not actually required by the text, I think. Matthew does not even mention Nazareth at this time. Throw in a few assumptions. The Pro-gospel of James says that Mary was from a priestly family living near Jerusalem. Joseph was a Jew from Bethlehem. If they were in fact living in Nazareth, what wws to prevent them from going there earlier, perhaps to stay with relatives, and then going on a "daytrip " to Bethlehem
to register. Assume that the child came earler than expected and thus caught them in a predicment. Or assume that
Mary, knowing the prophecy and that she was about to give birth insisted on going to Bethlehem in order for her child to be born there.
 
T700 said:
I had no idea that some good natured discussion of a seemingly harmless topic would draw such ire. My apologies if my Latin is bit rusty, but with this, I shall withdraw:

Ego subeo Confuto Sanctus Congregation of Omnimodus Inquisition.

Paul

ps. I am adding a slice of pizza 🍕 because I couldn’t find a suitable emoticon for amused bewilderment. That, and I like pizza.
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LOL! 😛

Whoops, I was having fun with emoticons and I didnt’ realize it would make my post come across as ire-ful. :o

I actually don’t care if anyone wants to believe that Jesus was born on July 4th. Its not a requirement of our faith, like Mary’s perpetual virginity.

But it just doesn’t seem conceivable that Heaven ignores the real date of the Incarnation, or that it celebrates it with its own private celebration excluding the Church on earth. That the date has no sacredness, so God didn’t bother to preserve it.

Obviously it matters to us, or the topic wouldn’t come up all the time. I can’t conceive why it wouldn’t it matter to God. And its such an easy, tiny matter for Heaven to preserve it.

I just don’t think we are going to get to Heaven and say, “The Jehavah’s Witness’ were right on target about the Catholic attachment to the pagan Sun-God!” Why would the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, make this major decison based on giving the pagan Sun-god such importance? Our Church just doesn’t have any precident for making major decsions in matters of faith in such an off-hand way. Why would she look outside the Church rather than inside the Church for choosing a date? It just doesn’t add up.
 
adelore said:
…Although it is true we don’t know the Date as it was never recorded…
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I hope you don’t mind me respectfully pointing out that many things in our faith are not recorded but have been infallibly handed down by word-of-mouth - by Tradition.

Remember that Paul wrote “Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by epistle.” (2Thes).

Therefore having something recorded is not necessary for it to have been handed down infallibly.

So its reasonable to believe that our Church, when declaring the date of celebration of the Incarnation, did not turn to random outside sources, but instead within to the sacred tradition handed down in the Church, a tradition that Christians had stood and held fast to.

This doesn’t mean that the enemy made no attempts to obscure what was his most hateful date of defeat by throwing in a lot of confusion and questioning of it over the centuries – recorded to this day in snippets so we can generalize that there was nothing but confusion over the date. Everything the Church has done or declared as truth has been questioned in every time. Think of the eminent theologians and Bishops in our day whose words are recorded proclaiming there was no true ressurrection of the Body of Christ and other such nonsense.
 
Well, it seems to me the church is now declaring Springtime is a good bet for the month of Christs birth…RCIA only teaches what the church agrees is true
 
redrosetea said:
…RCIA only teaches what the church agrees is true
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Do you really think so? I wish it were so. RCIA teachers are not infallible. And unfortunately, its not unheard of for RCIA classes to be led by individuals who hold dogmatic opinions that what the Church teaches to be true on given matters to be* wrong*. And they use their position to propogate that - outright, or in subtle ways.
 
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