What Mormons Think Of The Trinity

[Montalban]

Let me assure you that I don’t understand you.

zerinus

Do you know what a vox populi argument is?

It’s a logical fallacy. It’s like if I were to argue “You’re wrong, everyone agrees with me”

Instead, you cite ‘everyone’ doesn’t undertand the Creeds.

Which is a vox populi; only that everyone doesn’t agree with the Creeds so they must be wrong.

I didn’t know you spoke for everyone!

 

[Hellisreal]

I am guilty of agreeing with those creeds.

But, I realize what was at stake in them.

Namely, Christology.

What are we without Jesus Christ?

Do you know what a vox populi argument is?

It’s a logical fallacy. It’s like if I were to argue “You’re wrong, everyone agrees with me”

Instead, you cite ‘everyone’ doesn’t undertand the Creeds.

Which is a vox populi; only that everyone doesn’t agree with the Creeds so they must be wrong.

I didn’t know you spoke for everyone!

 

[Zooey]

I don’t intend to write a history of the creeds for you in here. If you have a problem with what I have said, spell it out clearly, and we will talk about it.

zerinus

Oh, no, I understand perfectly: Mormons believe in something they call a trinity. It is** not** the real Trinity of Christianity.
I knew that all ready. I just didn’t realize that you had an “elder” silly enough to admit it. (In writing yet).
At a point in time, when Mormons are dashing all 'round trying to prove that they are Christians (in spite of being nothing of the kind), this man gets up and says, in effect: “Heck, no; we’re not Christians, & this proves it…and now, let me explain why that not being Christians makes us Christians”.

 

[fellowChristian]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

**“I Believe in One God” **

200
These are the words with which the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed begins. The confession of God’s oneness, which has its roots in the divine revelation of the Old Covenant, is inseparable from the profession of God’s existence and is equally fundamental. God is unique; there is only one God: "The Christian faith confesses that God is one in nature, substance, and essence."3

201
To Israel, his chosen, God revealed himself as the only One: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."4 Through the prophets, God calls Israel and all nations to turn to him, the one and only God: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. . . . To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. ‘Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength.’"5

202
Jesus himself affirms that God is “the one Lord” whom you must love "with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength."6 At the same time Jesus gives us to understand that he himself is "the Lord."7 To confess that Jesus is Lord is distinctive of Christian faith. This is not contrary to belief in the One God. Nor does believing in the Holy Spirit as “Lord and giver of life” introduce any division into the One God:

We firmly believe and confess without reservation that there is only one true God, eternal, infinite (immensus) and unchangeable, incomprehensible, almighty, and ineffable, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons indeed, but one essence, substance or nature entirely simple.8

2083
Jesus summed up man’s duties toward God in this saying: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind."1 This immediately echoes the solemn call: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD."2

God has loved us first. The love of the One God is recalled in the first of the “ten words.” The commandments then make explicit the response of love that man is called to give to his God.

**
The Holy Bible**

Joshua 22:22
"The Mighty One, God, the LORD, the Mighty One, God, the LORD! He knows, and may Israel itself know. If it was in rebellion, or if in an unfaithful act against the LORD do not save us this day!

Psalm 50:1
The Mighty One, God, the LORD, has spoken,And summoned the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting.

Malachi 2:10
Sin in the Family ] "Do we not all have one father? Has not** one **God created us? Why do we deal treacherously each against his brother so as to profane the covenant of our fathers?

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Ephesians 4:6
**one God **and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Not God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit and God the Heavenly Mother. = 4Gods

 

[Hellisreal]

knew Zooey had four shrug emoticons- for a reason…

Thank you fellow Christian. Is is a quad thing?

 

[why_me]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities. I also like the idea that there is a Heavenly Mother. That would also make sense since Heavenly Father would need a woman companion.

I see no problem with these concepts. And if a person thinks about it, I do believe that they would seen nothing wrong with such ideas. There is some sense in it.

 

[fellowChristian]

God does not “need” a female companion. To say God needs is to say He is lacking in something. He is God. He is not lacking in anything.

Catholics believe in three persons but one God. The Jewish people believe in one God because God himself revealed that to them.

233 **
Christians are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names**,55 for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son, and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity.

**242 **
Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is “consubstantial” with the Father, that is, one only God with him.66 The second ecumenical council , held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed "the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father."67

**243 **
Before his Passover, Jesus announced the sending of “another Paraclete” (Advocate), the Holy Spirit. At work since creation, having previously “spoken through the prophets,” the Spirit will now be with and in the disciples, to teach them and guide them "into all the truth."68 The Holy Spirit is thus revealed as another divine person with Jesus and the Father.

The dogma of the Holy Trinity

**253 **
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity."83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

**254 **
The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father,” “Son,” “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

**255 **
The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

I explained it best to my 1st graders " I am one person and at the same time I am Mother, daughter and I have a spirit." That is as close as I can get to explaining the Trinity.

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p2.htm

 

[Montalban]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities. I also like the idea that there is a Heavenly Mother. That would also make sense since Heavenly Father would need a woman companion.

I see no problem with these concepts. And if a person thinks about it, I do believe that they would seen nothing wrong with such ideas. There is some sense in it.

If they’re separate then Jesus isn’t God. What then are we worshipping when we worship him?

 

[BartBurk]

Elder Holland can’t grasp the doctrine of the Trinity. Perhaps that is because his mind has been darkened by his acceptance of that false scripture, the Book of Mormon. There is nothing in the doctrine of the Trinity that should be difficult to understand – at least no more difficult than trying to figure out how three different bodies can be one God since the Book of Mormon also claims Father, Son and Holy Ghost are One Eternal God. Mormons won’t even accept their own scripture, apparently because it was incomprehensible to them.

I wonder how Elder Holland accepts the fact that all those Native Americans from Siberia are actually descended from Hebrews. Now that is truly incompehensible.

 

[PaulDupre]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities. I also like the idea that there is a Heavenly Mother. That would also make sense since Heavenly Father would need a woman companion.

Well, there you have in a nutshell the difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

Mormons believe that God is just a man who needs things, including women.

Christians believe that God is the supreme, self-existent being who needs nothing and no one.

All the differences really flow from this basic difference.

Clear-cut, isn’t it?

Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

If they’re separate then Jesus isn’t God. What then are we worshipping when we worship him?

Mormons don’t worship Jesus; in fact they are not allowed to worship Jesus.

That is another fundamental difference between Mormons and Christians.

Paul

 

[Good_Daughter]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities.

I wonder, do you worship Jesus? Do you worship Holy Spirit?

Would you be comfortable praying, “Jesus, I worship you” or, “Holy Spirit, I worship you”?

 

[FCEGM]

Well, there you have in a nutshell the difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

Mormons believe that God is just a man who needs things, including women.

Christians believe that God is the supreme, self-existent being who needs nothing and no one.

All the differences really flow from this basic difference.

Clear-cut, isn’t it?

Yes, it is, Paul. And note that “WhyMe” “likes” the Mormon godhead and finds it a “comfort”. Nothing about being true need apply when the bosom burns.

 

[why_me]

Yes, it is, Paul. And note that “WhyMe” “likes” the Mormon godhead and finds it a “comfort”. Nothing about being true need apply when the bosom burns.

I said that it is a nice notion. To have three separate members of the godhead is quite nice. Mormons pray to heavenly father in the name of Christ. Mormons look to heavenly father for guidence in their prayers. Christ has set the example for us to follow…to bring people closer to god. The holy ghost is the comforter. And yes, the burning in the bosom is the holy ghost bearing witness as to the truth and he gives guidance.

I think that I got it right…

 

[why_me]

I wonder, do you worship Jesus? Do you worship Holy Spirit?

Would you be comfortable praying, “Jesus, I worship you” or, “Holy Spirit, I worship you”?

Mormons I believe worship Jesus as the son of god and pray to heavenly father. The holy ghost is to be respected and felt from within. No, the holy spirit is not worshipped.

 

[PaulDupre]

Mormons I believe worship Jesus as the son of god and pray to heavenly father. The holy ghost is to be respected and felt from within. No, the holy spirit is not worshipped.

I was an active LDS for 11 years and never saw anything remotely similar to the worship of Jesus. In fact, in comparison to Catholicism, Jesus was rarely mentioned, except very rapidly at the end of prayers. Mostly all we heard about was Joseph Smith and the current prophet (Spencer W. Kimball and Ezra Taft Benson during those days).

Paul

 

[truthsilence]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities. I also like the idea that there is a Heavenly Mother. That would also make sense since Heavenly Father would need a woman companion.

I see no problem with these concepts. And if a person thinks about it, I do believe that they would seen nothing wrong with such ideas. There is some sense in it.

Is there some sense in believing God wasn’t always God, too? (even though He says otherwise - gosh thank heavens brother Joseph corrected Him on that one!)

Why me, is the Holy Ghost a God yet?

 

[zerinus]

Is there some sense in believing God wasn’t always God, too? (even though He says otherwise - gosh thank heavens brother Joseph corrected Him on that one!)

Why me, is the Holy Ghost a God yet?

In LDS theology, God has always been God, and the Holy Ghost is God too.

zerinus

 

[truthsilence]

In LDS theology, God has always been God, and the Holy Ghost is God too.

zerinus

Oh is that so? First of all, need I post another link to the doctrines of the gospel student manual containing all those weird mormon doctrines, including the one that says God is an exalted man? Ok, here you go, (again):

ldsces.org/inst_manuals/doc-gosp/manualindex.asp

Chapter 3:

■ “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man. . . . If the veil were rent today, . . . if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man. . . .

“. . . It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible” (Smith, Teachings, 345–46).

In LDS theology, God has always been God, and the Holy Ghost is God too.

zerinus

Chapter 10:

“At one time we were in the presence of our Eternal Father. There is not a soul in this room, not one, that has not seen him. You do not remember it, I do not remember it, but nevertheless there was a time before we ever came into this world when we dwelt in his presence. We knew what kind of a being he is. One thing we saw was how glorious he is. Another thing, how great was his wisdom, his understanding, how wonderful was his power and his inspiration. And we wanted to be like him. And because we wanted to be like him, we are here. We could not be like him and stay in his presence, because we did not have glorious bodies of flesh and bones. We were just spirits, and the spirit does not have flesh and bones"

(I guess the Holy Ghost can’t stay in God’s presence either, since the Holy Ghost doesn’t have a body of flesh and bones - - -does he?)

“We came to this earth that we might have a body and present it pure before God in the celestial kingdom. The great principle of happiness consists in having a body. The devil has no body, and herein is his punishment. He is pleased when he can obtain the tabernacle of man, and when cast out by the Savior he asked to go into the herd of swine, showing that he would prefer a swine’s body to having none".

“All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not” (Smith, Teachings, 181).

I guess we human beings have power over the Holy Ghost?

ldsces.org/inst_manuals/doc-gosp/manualindex.asp
Prepared by the Church Educational System

Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Salt Lake City, Utah

Zerinus: Send comments and corrections, including typographic errors, to CES Editing, 50 E. North Temple Street, Floor 8, Salt Lake City, UT 84150-2722 USA. Thank you.

 

[PaulDupre]

As I’ve said before, the LDS Church that Zerinus believes in does not exist. The real LDS Church teaches that God the Father was once a mortal man like one of us, and that he progressed to godhood - just one more god in a long lineage of gods.

Z-man, take the blinders off.

Paul