What Mormons Think Of The Trinity

[Zooey]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities. I also like the idea that there is a Heavenly Mother. That would also make sense since Heavenly Father would need a woman companion.

But then you have a Quaternity…
http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/1.gif:shrug:

I see no problem with these concepts. And if a person thinks about it, I do believe that they would seen nothing wrong with such ideas. There is some sense in it.

http://bestsmileys.com/nono/3.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/nono/4.gif

 

[zerinus]

Oh is that so?

Yes, very much so. I have already discussed this before. That doctrine was at one time taught in the Church, and became widely prevalent in LDS literature, and examples of it will still be found. The Church has put out a vast amount of literature much of which is still in use; and it is neither practical nor cost-effective to update all of them immediately when an error in doctrine is found. The institute manual is not exactly one of high priority for updating. But as I have repeatedly said before, the correct LDS doctrine of the eternal nature of the Deity is that which is taught in LDS scripture, of which the following are only a few examples:

2 Nephi 26:

12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God.

Moroni 8:

18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.

Section 20:

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them

D&C 20:

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

D&C 78:

16 Who hath appointed Michael your prince, and established his feet, and set him upon high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life.

D&C 121:

32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.

Moses 1:

3 And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?

---

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.

“All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not” (Smith, Teachings, 181).

I guess we human beings have power over the Holy Ghost?

Not so. I believe you know better. That refers to demons—the unembodied spirits that followed Satan after he fell from the presence of God. It does not refer to the Deity. Jesus also was an unembodied spirit at one time, before He was born in mortality, while being fully divine, and having power over all creation (Ether 3:6–16). That did not mean that men had power over Him.

zerinus

 

[fellowChristian]

Ok I’m confused.

I have read LDS Doctrines. I have spoken with an Elder of the church. What I got out of all of it is…

That some man because of his good works became a god.He was “exalted” That any man can,because of their good works, become a god.

But if you think about it…who was that man’s god? And then if that god was a man before he was exalted…who was his god? I could keep going but I’m sure you understand that with this theology it never ends…or does it?

Then you have this…

Moroni 8:

18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.

But according to your theology god does change from a man into a god.

Then this…

Section 20:

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them

How can the god you describe be "infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable "? He is always changing from a man into a god? And does each god get their own planet?

D&C 20:

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

This says “one God”, but you say three separate gods?Which is it?

D&C 78:

16 Who hath appointed Michael your prince, and established his feet, and set him upon high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life.

Theres that word “one” again. Without beginning of days? If god was a man first then he had a begining.

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.

So basically only one god! Do you have scripture that says three separate gods? Because everything here says 1 god.

And this? This says ONE GOD! Yet LDS teachings have pointed to 4 gods. God the Father, 1 God the Son 2,God the Holy Spirit 3, God the Heavenly Mother. LDS says each one is a god. Three separate beings, yet these verses say “One”.

LDS do belive in a trinity as in three separate gods.

So Mormons have three gods.But the Book of Mormon talks about having only one god. Any wonder why I am confused.

 

[fellowChristian]

Oh and one of my sources?
lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.3933737ad2ff28132eb22a86942826a0/?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=29ec2f2324d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____

Godhead
The Church’s first article of faith states, “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.

Additional Information

The true doctrine of the Godhead was lost in the apostasy that followed the Savior’s mortal ministry and the deaths of His Apostles. This doctrine began to be restored when 14-year-old Joseph Smith received his First Vision (see Joseph Smith—History 1:17). From the Prophet’s account of the First Vision and from his other teachings, we know that the members of the Godhead are** three separate beings**. The Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit (see D&C 130:22).

Although the members of the Godhead are distinct beings with distinct roles, they are one in purpose and doctrine. They are perfectly united in bringing to pass Heavenly Father’s divine plan of salvation.

See also God the Father; Holy Ghost; Jesus Christ

—See True to the Faith (2004), 73–74

scriptures.lds.org/gs/g/22

 

[BartBurk]

Yes, very much so. I have already discussed this before. That doctrine was at one time taught in the Church, and became widely prevalent in LDS literature, and examples of it will still be found. The Church has put out a vast amount of literature much of which is still in use; and it is neither practical nor cost-effective to update all of them immediately when an error in doctrine is found. The institute manual is not exactly one of high priority for updating. But as I have repeatedly said before, the correct LDS doctrine of the eternal nature of the Deity is that which is taught in LDS scripture, of which the following are only a few examples:

That is the lamest excuse for LDS doctrines that I have ever read. Go to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism and tell me what it says about God the Father. You may say the Encyclopedia of Mormonism is not an official church source, but that would simply be an evasion.

A few years ago the First Presidency sent out books to be given to libraries so they would have books on hand which accurately represented Mormonism. I am a Librarian so I was asked to approach several of our local libraries to provide them with these materials. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism was one of the items which the LDS Church presented to libraries all over the country. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism clearly teaches the traditional doctrine of Mormonism regarding the Father’s progression from manhood to Godhood.

 

[PaulDupre]

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism clearly teaches the traditional doctrine of Mormonism regarding the Father’s progression from manhood to Godhood.

So does the current LDS “Gospel Principles” Manual chapter 47 page 301:

This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345–46).

You can read the whole thing at LDS.org here.

Zerinus really does not understand what his church teaches. His sola scriptura version of Mormonism is a lame attempt to hide his head in the sand and not face the heresy taught by the LDS Church.

So sad,
Paul

 

[bogeydogg]

Here’s the problem.

By the LDS church readily admitting that it thinks true faith was lost when John died they have effectively condemned EVERYONE to hell (of course they don’t believe in hell) for the interveneing 1730 years because they worshipped a false doctrine. Oh yeah, the LDS church teaches God is merciful. One would think that a prophet would have been sent long before Smith.

And speaking of Prophets.

Smith moved his followers (which BTW sprang up in the post-Finney ‘burned over’ district of western NY along with the JW and 7th Days) to Missouri claiming that God (whom he had seen face to face) told him that a ‘New Zion’ was going to be established there. Of course Smith was killed in Carthage while trying to escape jail so I guess not, leaving Brigham Young to move the folks to SLC to wait for God there. Suprise, not yet.

The LDS claims that they believe in the Bible and were founded by a true prophet. The problem is the Bible lays out absolute inerrancy as the qualification of a prophet and since God didn’t show up in Missouri then Smith, necessarily, was not a true prophet.

Therefore, LDS faith is a sham founded by a man who blasphemed God and duped those too lazy to study into following him because he had an answer for everything.

But this the stock and trade of cults.

1. Check brain at door.
2. Be told of special revelation from God (won’t your friends be jealous)
3. Never ever question (I was thrown out of LDS sunday school for this very crime btw)
4. Go into the world and seek out others too lazy to study and dupe them into following a doctrine of demons as well.
5. Be happy!

 

[bogeydogg]

I like the idea that the trinity is three distinct personages. I think that it is a comfort to know that heavenly father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are three separate entitities. I also like the idea that there is a Heavenly Mother. That would also make sense since Heavenly Father would need a woman companion.

I see no problem with these concepts. And if a person thinks about it, I do believe that they would seen nothing wrong with such ideas. There is some sense in it.

Your concept of God is flawed.

If God were to create another god then that created god could not be God because nothing created can have being within itself because it would, inescapably, be contingent upon something else for its existence and such a being could never be God becuase God must have Being within Himself in order that anything may exist, live, move and have its being.

We are, all of us, contingent beings. That is, if we were to be introduced to cold blackness of outerspace without an environmenal suit we would find out very quickly that we cannot live on our own steam. For this reason, nothing we do is eternal because we are all subject to entrapy. A Creator God would have to be able to exist entirely upon His own without anything to cause Him to exist. Such a being would have no beginning, because He exists on His own and therefore could never be created, and would never die because He exists on His own power and can never be killed.

Such a being is necessary to assert a God of any kind because to do otherwise is to fall into Hume’s infinite regress. If God is caused then what is the cause? And the cause of that? And the cause of that? and so forth.

Also a contingent being would not have the power to uphold existence because by His very nature his power would not be his own and therefore he could not give it to others to make them live.

The LDS god is manifestly unreal because he is a contingent being who could not uphold his creation and is part of a regress without end which defies logic and makes the laws of the universe illusory and existence itself an illusion.

Of course, cogito ergo sum, so being is not an illusion.

Unless of course we are describing the god of the LDS church.

 

[Montalban]

In LDS theology, God has always been God, and the Holy Ghost is God too.

zerinus

So instead of a Trinity you have what? A Duility?

 

[zerinus]

So instead of a Trinity you have what? A Duility?

No, we have the Godhead, which consists of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

zerinus

 

[inJESUS]

No, we have the Godhead, which consists of

ok

the Father

 

[zerinus]

created or eternal?

Eternal.

created or eternal?

Eternal.

created or eternal?

Eternal.

zerinus

 

[inJESUS]

Eternal.

]

thank you. What about the “created” part?

 

[BartBurk]

ok

 

[zerinus]

thank you. What about the “created” part?

Which “created part”?

zerinus

 

[PaulDupre]

inJESUS;2859882:

Mormons believe everyone (including you and me) is eternal and were never created. There is no essential difference between God and man in that regard.

Well, that’s sort of true. They believe that the “intelligences” that are the raw material from which our spirits were born are uncreated (like the rest of matter) but those intelligences weren’t really “us”. We did not always exist as the persons we are now, and neither did the Mormon god.

God (the real One) bless you,
Paul

 

[inJESUS]

Which “created part”?

zerinus

my mistake. I meant to write " uncreated and eternal"?

you replied with eternal. Do i understand they are uncreated as well?

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;2859882:

Mormons believe everyone (including you and me) is eternal and were never created. There is no essential difference between God and man in that regard.

wow so my question is meaningless lol.

so we were never created? we were born out of nothing? no creation? there is no Reason for our existence?

where is the difference between God and man then?

 

[inJESUS]

BartBurk;2860085:

Well, that’s sort of true. They believe that the “intelligences” that are the raw material from which our spirits were born are uncreated (like the rest of matter) but those intelligences weren’t really “us”. We did not always exist as the persons we are now, and neither did the Mormon god.

am sure this is not in Genesis where do they get these things from?

 

[inJESUS]

BartBurk;2860085:

Well, that’s sort of true. They believe that the “intelligences” that are the raw material from which our spirits were born are uncreated (like the rest of matter) but those intelligences weren’t really “us”. We did not always exist as the persons we are now, and neither did the Mormon god.

God (the real One) bless you,
Paul

aha am getting things now. So we’re like an extension of God…we and God are of the same source, uncreated and eternal? am i close?

still none of it in Genesis