What Mormons Think Of The Trinity

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inJesus FYI:
Just be careful to what you see online and what some mormon members tell you. The Book of Mormon has been changed…edited…several times. What might be in today’s Book of Mormon wasn’t in the first book or other books after that. This religion changes thier beliefs so then they have to change thier books.
Don’t you believe a word of it. An anti-Mormon would never tell you the truth about Mormonism. If I wanted to know the truth about Catholicism, I would go to a Catholic, not a Protestant. If I wanted to learn the truth about Islam, I would ask a Moslem, not an anti-Moslem. If you want to know what Mormonism teaches, you ask a Mormon, not an anti-Mormon. Mormonism is true. There is no question about that.

zerinus
 
What a load of bull. The one and only true church which is the Catholic Church. Saint Peter given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, I know you’ve read and heard that and also that the Christ said he would be with the church forever and always. What you mormons contend by what you say is that Christ is a liar and not capable of holding his church together. All of you mormons it is clear are pro’s at apostasy. But wait I forgot that drunko joe smith was the hero of christianity, YEAH RIGHT:shrug:
I don’t understand what you are talking about. The Christian church had gone into apostasy. The creeds were formulated by people who had no authority from God to do so. We do not feel bound to accept them. Whether we were there to reject them or not is irrelevant.

zerinus
 
Don’t you believe a word of it. An anti-Mormon would never tell you the truth about Mormonism. If I wanted to know the truth about Catholicism, I would go to a Catholic, not a Protestant. If I wanted to learn the truth about Islam, I would ask a Moslem, not an anti-Moslem. If you want to know what Mormonism teaches, you ask a Mormon, not an anti-Mormon. Mormonism is true. There is no question about that.

zerinus
If the BoM can stand up to intelligent scrutiny, there should be no concern over what someone reads about it.

And you can believe there have there have been changes made to the BoM. Significant modifications that change meaning. Here is an introduction to the 3913 changes made to the BoM since its first printing.

utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm
 
I took a look at your link and I would say that easily puts any of Zerinus arguments to bed for good. Nice research:)
If the BoM can stand up to intelligent scrutiny, there should be no concern over what someone reads about it.

And you can believe there have there have been changes made to the BoM. Significant modifications that change meaning. Here is an introduction to the 3913 changes made to the BoM since its first printing.

utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm
 
Zerinus…In the first place I’am NOT Anti-Mormon! I believe in telling the truth no matter what religion you are! inJesus wanted to know about the BoM and it is a fact that** we all know ** ** you included ** this book and been changed and edited many times!! So please… make sure you tell the** whole truth ** about your book and not just part’s of it.
 
Zerinus…In the first place I’am NOT Anti-Mormon! I believe in telling the truth no matter what religion you are! inJesus wanted to know about the BoM and it is a fact that** we all know ** ** you included ** this book and been changed and edited many times!! So please… make sure you tell the** whole truth ** about your book and not just part’s of it.
The truth is not what you told her. That was a wicked lie.

zerinus
 
Then it is obvious that your BOM is a wicked lie because that is where the info came from. Do yourself a favor and quit putting faith in your so-called “elders” they don’t know any more than you do it obvious, it’s only that you “pedestrian” mormons give them unchecked power over all of yourselves and beleive the fairy tales they spread about true faith.🤷
The truth is not what you told her. That was a wicked lie.

zerinus
 
inJesus FYI:
Just be careful to what you see online and what some mormon members tell you. The Book of Mormon has been changed…edited…several times. What might be in today’s Book of Mormon wasn’t in the first book or other books after that. This religion changes thier beliefs so then they have to change thier books.
An explanation as to the changes in the book of mormon. It is really not such a big deal.

fairlds.org/Book_of_Mormon/Book_of_Mormon_vs_the_Critics.html
 
Why are changes to the BOM important? Wouldn’t merely asking if the BOM is valid be more important?
 
An explanation as to the changes in the book of mormon. It is really not such a big deal.

fairlds.org/Book_of_Mormon/Book_of_Mormon_vs_the_Critics.html
This document spends a lot of time criticizing josephlied.com for taking information from UTLM, which has nothing to do with the argument. Just go to UTLM and read their original work.

The remaining portion:
  • Defends the the Tanner’s (UTLM) assertions that Smith claimed the BoM is divinely translated, and thus there should be no errors to correct.
  • Defends grammatical changes.
  • Defends the changes regarding the Godhead.
  • Defends changes that fix chronological mix ups.
I agree that Smith, writing as a human speaker, would write how he speaks, including grammatical errors. However, the claim is made by Smith himself, and the second document that you linked to, that the divine translation of the BoM was given “letter by letter”. It is not erroneous to claim that God does not make mistakes.

The changes to the Godhead have no defense. These changes modify the very definition of God. Which goes back to divine revelation. Grammatical errors is one thing, WHAT GOD IS, is quite another. A divine translation given letter by letter has the very definition of God screwed up? Also, these changes coincide with Smith’s own changing view of deity, from trinitarian to polytheist.

Chronological mix ups in an indication that Smith got lost in his own story line. Again, would this occur in a divine translation, given letter by letter? All that first document you link to does is recognize the chronological error, and say yeah, it was “fixed”.

And last but not least is the fact the Christ Himself taught the Apostles Who He Is and what the Apostles should teach to others. The Apostles wrote down what they were taught. Christ is The Source of the texts that comprise the Bible. We don’t have to have faith that these texts exist, we have them. And thousands of copies were made of these texts, before they were compiled by the Catholic Church into a Bible.

To believe that Christ then taught Joseph Smith something completely and totally different about the Godhead is beyond incredulous. That is saying Christ “forgot” some really important pieces while engaged in His ministry. It is the stuff of false prophets.
 
Do Mormons love God. Are they taught to be tolerant of and to love their neighbor, whether that neigbor is jewish, mormon, catholic etc.?
 
More about the changes to the book of mormon can be found here:

fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2002_Changes_in_the_Book_of_Mormon.html
Around 99% of those “3,000 +” changes that are supposed to have been made in the Book of Mormon are in fact punctuation changes. The original text of the Book of Mormon was not revealed with any punctuation marks in it. The punctuation was added by others. The punctuation of the first edition of the Book of Mormon was done by the printer, who was not even a Mormon. That punctuation was very bad, and has been revised several times to improve it. Needless to say, the punctuational changes do not change the meaning the text.

The first edition of the book was also manually typeset under very difficult circumstances, and was not properly proofread. After the death of Joseph Smith, the original manuscript fell into the hands of the RLDS Church, and for a long time the LDS Church did not have access to it. Around 30 years ago the LDS Church obtained access to those manuscripts, and was able to make a critical comparison with the published edition. A number of printers or typographical errors were discovered which were corrected. This is another source of the supposed “changes”. These manuscripts have been published, and people can see for themselves what has been changed and why.

Another source of the “changes” is modernization of grammar and spelling. In the days when the Book of Mormon was published, American spelling was not standardized. People spelled words as they thought they sounded. A wide variety of spelling styles or conventions existed across the country. Later on as the American spelling became standardized, it became necessary to conform the book to that spelling standardization. Again, these changes do not alter the meaning of the text.

There are around seven or eight changes made in the whole of the Book of Mormon that only slightly alter the meaning of the text, or have slight theological implications for it. Around five of these were made by Joseph Smith himself, in the second edition of the book. He was of course the original translator and publisher of the book, and was perfectly authorized under divine guidance to make such changes. The remaining two or three changes were done by his successors, who likewise have the same authority to do so.

A reprint of the first edition of the Book of Mormon also exists, and if anyone is interested they can go and buy it, and compare it themselves. The LDS Church has never tried to hide any changes from anybody.

zerinus
 
Do Mormons love God. Are they taught to be tolerant of and to love their neighbor, whether that neigbor is jewish, mormon, catholic etc.?
Yes they do; but what is even more important is that the Book of Mormon that they believe in is true! 🙂

zerinus
 
Yes they do; but what is even more important is that the Book of Mormon that they believe in is true! 🙂

zerinus
Here is the challenge: can you accept it?
  1. You must include at least 3000 grammatical and spelling errors, even if you use a secretary to transcribe your dictation. Now this is going to be really hard, because where are you going to find such an ignorant secretary?
Good luck on that one.
  1. Your “history” must be 531 pages long, and must use the phrase “and it came to pass” 3,856 times.
  2. You must come up with a good explanation as to why filler such as “and it came to pass” would be so frequently repeated if your history is supposed to have come from gold plates where space was at a premium.
  3. Once your book is published you are only allowed to change it 3500 times for grammatical and spelling errors and 500 times for doctrinal, historical or other substantive inconsistencies.
  4. Your “history” must replace the actual millions of inhabitants of the ancient Americas during this time period with fictitious nations, including one nation founded by refugees from the mythical tower of Babylon who came to the Americas on a barge with holes in the top and the bottom and two other nations founded by “Jews” who know next to nothing about Jewish dietary or religious practices.
  5. Make sure you plagiarize from more than one section of the Bible, and from various other sources, so that your claim that many ancient authors contributed to the book can later be trumpeted by apologists.
  6. Claim that your inconsistent and grammatically awkward prose (except for the plagiarized parts which are a little bit better written) is not fiction, but a true and sacred history.
    macgregorministries.org/mormons/bom_challenge.html
 
Here is the challenge: can you accept it?
  1. You must include at least 3000 grammatical and spelling errors, even if you use a secretary to transcribe your dictation. Now this is going to be really hard, because where are you going to find such an ignorant secretary?
Well my holy book doesn’t even have vowels, so I’ll have to give the Mormons a pass on that one.
 
Well my holy book doesn’t even have vowels, so I’ll have to give the Mormons a pass on that one.
Here is the challenge: can you accept it?

Jaredite ships are described as built following the direct personal instructions of God himself construction of eight (8) submersible sailing vessels in approximately 2200 B.C.E. each boat with just one tight-fitting door, and no window or other opening. Construction of all eight boats was completed, per the Lord’s personal instructions

But what if we read it with the eye of reason and common sense? What if we read it as if we were jury members evaluating a witness’s testimony? Shall we give it a try?

NEXT, the Brother of Jared looked at the finished boats and wondered for the first time, Whoa! How will we breathe in these things? He also noticed they were totally dark inside: “O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer?”

windows were not invented until thousands of years later, by a different civilization.
When asked about the light problem, note that the Lord answered with a question: "What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have windows, for they will be dashed in pieces

Despite the common-sense requirements of structural integrity of ships that will be on the ocean carrying flocks and herds of animals and their feed for a year, all boats are finished, and then, as an afterthought, holes are hacked into that finished structure, one in the top and one in the bottom

How is the Jaredite level of planning and knowledge different from that of men described in current news articles, who carelessly suffocate illegal aliens by transporting them in unventilated trucks?

A goat eats 2 - 3 pounds/day. Even a pony eats about 8 pounds/day. Let’s sensibly use 3 pounds X 344 days. That’s 1,032 pounds of feed per animal.
And how about carrying a year’s supply of drinking water for each person and animal? They couldn’t drink ocean water, and in boats of the type described they couldn’t gather significant rain water. How could they load and carry sufficient fresh water?

The numerous animals couldn’t be taken outside to urinate and defecate. Such a year-long, high-moisture, low-ventilation environment breeds bacteria, yeast, fungus and molds, and rots food.

Can you visualize adults, children, flocks and herds, rocking, tossing and flipping over, traveling that way for a year? Could you ride for 344 days and nights with your children on a boat, repeatedly buried in the depths of the sea with flocks and herds crashing over each other, with urine-soaked “litter box” material spilling into their food as the ship flopped upside down?
mormonthink.com/bomweb3.htm
 
Yeah I agree I would like to see any sort of proof about an ancient babylonian tribe here in America and also a Jewish one to boot. This is total garbage at best and Zerinus and no other moromon can even hope to ever rationalize this complete heresy to be truth. They are just like Islam where they took the parts of the old testament and twisted it to say what they wanted and then came up with “special” books later that substantiated and already false belief and doctrine. Mormonism is dead false lies.
Here is the challenge: can you accept it?
  1. You must include at least 3000 grammatical and spelling errors, even if you use a secretary to transcribe your dictation. Now this is going to be really hard, because where are you going to find such an ignorant secretary?
Good luck on that one.
  1. Your “history” must be 531 pages long, and must use the phrase “and it came to pass” 3,856 times.
  2. You must come up with a good explanation as to why filler such as “and it came to pass” would be so frequently repeated if your history is supposed to have come from gold plates where space was at a premium.
  3. Once your book is published you are only allowed to change it 3500 times for grammatical and spelling errors and 500 times for doctrinal, historical or other substantive inconsistencies.
  4. Your “history” must replace the actual millions of inhabitants of the ancient Americas during this time period with fictitious nations, including one nation founded by refugees from the mythical tower of Babylon who came to the Americas on a barge with holes in the top and the bottom and two other nations founded by “Jews” who know next to nothing about Jewish dietary or religious practices.
  5. Make sure you plagiarize from more than one section of the Bible, and from various other sources, so that your claim that many ancient authors contributed to the book can later be trumpeted by apologists.
  6. Claim that your inconsistent and grammatically awkward prose (except for the plagiarized parts which are a little bit better written) is not fiction, but a true and sacred history.
    macgregorministries.org/mormons/bom_challenge.html
 
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